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Jesus – Judas- Betrayal



Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities. Let us examine the scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide. The latter part of punishment was advised by Lord Jesus Himself. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire.



If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire. Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi).



Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, the scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.



If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of the scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.

At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami

ANIL ANTONY
[email protected]
http://www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
This is a new concept to me.
That we can escape the judgement of God by punishing our selves or by being punished by the King.
I find it interesting but unlikely to be true.
I think God is only looking for Repentance. To punish yourself through fear of retribution is not repentance. Nor is punishment from any human source likely to lead to repentance to God.
For these reasons I find that for me the Interpretation is inadequate.

Terry______________________________________

Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Terrywoodenpic said:
This is a new concept to me.
That we can escape the judgement of God by punishing our selves or by being punished by the King.
I find it interesting but unlikely to be true.
I think God is only looking for Repentance. To punish yourself through fear of retribution is not repentance. Nor is punishment from any human source likely to lead to repentance to God.
For these reasons I find that for me the Interpretation is inadequate.
I think that dattaswami's looking at the Judas story from a Hindu perspective, and hence his interpretation is influenced by the belief in karma. According to karma, there is no outside force judging you. You reap the consequences of your actions. Even if you are sorry about it afterwards, there are still consequences to your actions, so repentance alone is not enough. For example, if you jump out of your second story window, you will end up suffering serious bodily injury. It doesn't matter how sorry you are about it afterwards, the result of your actions will not go away with mere repentance. Judas' betrayal of Jesus will send him to hell, not because an angry God will condemn him but because hell is the natural conesequence for his actions.

However, karma is not fatalistic. It's not the case that once you've done something, there is nothing that you can do to escape the consequences. If that were the case, there would not be much need for religion. But what needs to be done to avoid the bad consequences is also based in action. According to karma, other actions can mitigate the consequences of earlier actions. So long and lengthy physical therapy would do much to avoid the otherwise debilitating effects of your second-story plunge. Likewise, according to dattaswami, Judas' further action of suicide will mitigate that first action and thereby he avoids hell. He wouldn't be doing it for fear of retribution. He'd be doing it because that's what needs to be done.

I'm not saying that I agree with this interpretation, but it is interesting. Karma is extremely complex and I don't see how we would know what the conesquences are of either action.

And in the Buddhist conception of karma, intent is crucial to the outcome, not just the action itself, so suicide with bad intent would not save Judas from hell; it would probably make matters worse. (Honestly, I don't understand how suicide, even with good intent - remorse - would make things better, karma-wise.)

For all the things that conservative Christians get upset about, it's always puzzled me that "Jesus Christ Superstar" did cause more of an uproar. (Or maybe it did and I've never heard about it.) To me, one of the most audacious bits of counter-culture theology ever is contained in that musical. When Judas arrives for the finale, after his suicide, he descends to the stage dressed in white. Clearly, he is coming from heaven, not hell. :162:
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
Speaking as a Christian, I would say that it is better to repent and never betray again, rather than kill yourself. God will forgive you if you simply ask it of him.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Terrywoodenpic said:
This is a new concept to me.
That we can escape the judgement of God by punishing our selves or by being punished by the King.
I find it interesting but unlikely to be true.
I think God is only looking for Repentance. To punish yourself through fear of retribution is not repentance. Nor is punishment from any human source likely to lead to repentance to God.
For these reasons I find that for me the Interpretation is inadequate.
I think Judas did hang himslef from repentence. i dont' think it was from fear of punishment, because he had nothing to fear. The Romans were more than happy to have someone betray Jesus.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Linus said:
What do you mean by this exactly?
He felt so bad about what he had done that he couldn't live with himself anymore. He had "a broken heart and a contrite spirit," so broken, in fact, that he hanged himself.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Aqualung said:
He felt so bad about what he had done that he couldn't live with himself anymore. He had "a broken heart and a contrite spirit," so broken, in fact, that he hanged himself.
I agree. In fact, I don't think that Judas ever meant for Jesus to die. I think he betrayed him thinking that Jesus would be locked up or possibly even pardoned by Pontius Pilate. Remember that there was a tradition where the Romans would release one Jewish offender in recognition of Passover. Pilate wanted to free Jesus over Barabus, but the mob turned against Jesus. When Judas saw Jesus whipped and beaten and headed for a tortured death, he was so remorseful that he tried to absolve himself of the guilt by giving money back. When that didn't work, he hung himself.

When I was in Lutheran school, I was taught to hate Judas as the ultimate betrayer, evil incarnate second only to the Devil himself. But I just couldn't hate Judas. I could see humanity in him - limited and imperfect, perhaps greedy, perhaps angry and reactionary, unable to see the full consequences of his actions until it was too late. And then ultimately remorseful.

Imagine making a mistake so big that you can't undo it no matter what. Some of us say things that we shouldn't have said. Others have the misfortune of actually killing someone and having to live with that fact. Judas did at least that much and if one is Christian, one believes that he did more than that - he betrayed and murdered God. How does one live with that kind of crushing guilt? How could one possibly go on?

Many of us have experienced making such mistakes to a smaller degree, and the promise of forgiveness is one of the most moving things that one can experience. It is what allows us to go on. Judas despaired and killed himself. But I just can't believe that God didn't forgive him too; he was so clearly remorseful. I don't believe that any one act, no matter how heinous, could condemn you forever.
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
Aqualung said:
He felt so bad about what he had done that he couldn't live with himself anymore. He had "a broken heart and a contrite spirit," so broken, in fact, that he hanged himself.
I see. Do you think that this action was some form of repentance then?
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Linus said:
I have never heard of that theory before. Is it a common mormon belief?
I'm not sure if it's a mormon belief at all. I just made it up in my own mind.

Linus said:
How is Judas' killing himself an act of repentance?
Well, the steps to repentence are: recognising your sin; feeling bad for your sin; and turning away from your sin.
Judas sort of did that, though not in the most effective. He recognised his sin. He knew he had done the wrong thing to betray Jesus. He felt horrible about it. He gave back the money. He felt so bad, in fact, that he hanged himself. Now, he didn't really have much of an opportunity to actually "turn away from the sin" because he wouldn't really have another opportunity to betray Jesus ;), but he was at least to a degree repentant of what he had done.
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
Aqualung said:
I'm not sure if it's a mormon belief at all. I just made it up in my own mind.
Ok. I didn't know, so I wanted to make sure.

Aqualung said:
Well, the steps to repentence are: recognising your sin; feeling bad for your sin; and turning away from your sin.
Judas sort of did that, though not in the most effective. He recognised his sin. He knew he had done the wrong thing to betray Jesus. He felt horrible about it. He gave back the money. He felt so bad, in fact, that he hanged himself. Now, he didn't really have much of an opportunity to actually "turn away from the sin" because he wouldn't really have another opportunity to betray Jesus ;), but he was at least to a degree repentant of what he had done.
But are we capable of repenting only "to a degree"? It sort of sounds like you're saying that he only partially repented and that somehow qualifies him for some sort of recognition. How can that be? Maybe if you said, "he was, to a degree, sorry for what he had done," I could agree with you. I don't see repentence as somehting you can only partially accomplish. It's either all or nothing the way I see it.

I don't mean to hound you, but I am curious, and I'm enjoying this discussion so please don't take my questions the wrong way. :)
 

blueman

God's Warrior
Judas was a wolf in sheep's clothing, who ultimately rejected Jesus Christ for who He was, the one and only Messiah and Son of the Living God. There was no reward for Judas' betrayel of Christ, but a destiny of eternal separation from the One he betrayed and God The Father. :)
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Linus said:
But are we capable of repenting only "to a degree"?
I'm not sure. I mean, he was obviously very troubled about what he had done, but he never asked for forgiveness (at least the Bible doesn't tell of him doing it). That's what I mean by only "partially repentent." I don't know, though. I guess he could have been completely repentent, but not forgiven, because he did not ask forgiveness.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
blueman said:
Judas was a wolf in sheep's clothing, who ultimately rejected Jesus Christ for who He was, the one and only Messiah and Son of the Living God. There was no reward for Judas' betrayel of Christ, but a destiny of eternal separation from the One he betrayed and God The Father. :)
Really? Seems to me Jesus was the type of guy to forgive people, especially if they regretted their actions.
 

blueman

God's Warrior
Halcyon said:
Really? Seems to me Jesus was the type of guy to forgive people, especially if they regretted their actions.
Judas knew what he did was wrong, but he never repented his sin, nor accepted Jesus as the Son of God. He was more engrossed with guilt for turning over an innocent man, as opposed to accepting Jesus as the redeemer of mankind and the Son of the Living God. :)
 

blueman

God's Warrior
blueman said:
Judas knew what he did was wrong, but he never repented his sin, nor accepted Jesus as the Son of God. He was more engrossed with guilt for turning over an innocent man, as opposed to accepting Jesus as the redeemer of mankind and the Son of the Living God. :)
Jesus predicted Judas's fate in Luke 7:22 when He said "The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to the man who betrays him". Judas fate was sealed. :)
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
blueman said:
Jesus predicted Judas's fate in Luke 7:22 when He said "The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to the man who betrays him". Judas fate was sealed. :)
Sure, and Judas got woe in the form of a rope around his neck. Are you trying to say that God is not all forgiving?
 

blueman

God's Warrior
Halcyon said:
Sure, and Judas got woe in the form of a rope around his neck. Are you trying to say that God is not all forgiving?
Did I say that? No I didn't. Did you read what I wrote? Apparently not. Judas never accepted Christ as the Messiah from the beginning. Once he realized Jesus was not going to overthrow the Roman government, he sold Him out. He never asked for forgiveness or accpeted Jesus as the Son of God. Woe to Judas meant eternal separation from God and Jesus Christ. The guilt that overcame Judas and led to his suicide was betraying an innocent man whom he knew was no threat to Roman rule, not a desire to repent and accept Christ as the Messiah. Don't put words in my mouth. :)
 
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