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Jesus and Laozi

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I did some research a while back which compared and contrasted the teachings of Jesus and Laozi. As religions, Christianity and Taoism are very different from one another, especially in their modern forms. If one focuses only on the words directly attributed to both founding teachers though, they often seem to be talking about a lot of the same things.

Let's look at some examples. To minimize bias on my part I'll avoid commentary and open analysis for now. I'll just let the words speak for themselves.


Love your neighbor as yourself. -Matthew 22:39

Love the world as your own self. -Tao Te Ching 13



Many that are first will be last, and the last will be first. -Mark I0:31

Softness and gentleness are the companions of life. The hard and strong will fall. The soft and weak will overcome. -Tao Te Ching 76



Those who speak on their own seek their own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and there is nothing false in him. -John 7:18

Those who know do not talk. Those who talk do not know. -Tao Te Ching 56



Do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, offer him the other also. -Matthew 5:38

Respond to anger with virtue. -Tao Te Ching 63


Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you. -Luke 6:27

The sage is good at helping everyone. For that reason there is no rejected person. Therefore the good man is the teacher of the bad and the bad man is the lesson of the good. -Tao Te Ching 27



Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. -Matthew 5:9

Force is followed by loss of strength. This is not the way of Tao. And that which goes against Tao perishes young. -Tao Te Ching 30



Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. -Matthew 5:3-9

To yield is to be preserved whole.
To be bent is to become straight.
To be hollow is to be filled.
To be tattered is to be renewed.
To be in want is to possess.
To have plenty is to be confused. -Tao Te Ching 22



Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. -Luke 6:37

The sage is good to people who are good. He is also good to people who aren't good. This is true goodness.
The sage trusts people who are trustworthy. He also trusts people who aren't trustworthy. This is true trust. -Tao Te Ching 49


All who take the sword will perish by the sword. -Matthew 26:52

A violent man will die a violent death. -Tao Te Ching 42



Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. Carry no purse, no sandals, and salute no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, "Peace be to this house!" -Luke 10:3-5

There is nothing softer or more yielding than water but none is superior to it in overcoming the hard; it has no equal. Weakness overcomes strength and gentleness overcomes rigidity. Everyone knows this, yet no one puts it into practice. -Tao Te Ching 78



Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. -Matthew 6:26

By doing nothing, everything is done. -Tao Te Ching 48


Go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. -Matthew 6:5

Without stepping outside you can know what is happening in the world
Without looking out the window you can see the way of heaven. -Tao Te Ching 47



For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also, -Matthew 6:21

The sage wears rough clothing and holds the jewel in his heart. -Tao Te Ching 70



The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that someone took and sowed in his field; it is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches. -Matthew 13:31-32

The Tao is forever undefined. Small though it is, it cannot be grasped. Tao in the world is like a river flowing home to the sea. -Tao Te Ching 32



For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven. -Ecclesiastes 3:1

All things take shape and rise to activity but I watch them fall back to rest, like vegetation that grows luxuriantly and returns to the soil it springs from. -Tao Te Ching 16


The kingdom of God is among you. -Luke 17:21

The great Tao flows everywhere. -Tao Te Ching 34

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. -John 6:47

He who dies yet his power remains has long life. -Tao Te Ching 33



Unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. -Matthew 18:3

Being the stream of the universe, true & unswerving, become as a little child once more. -Tao Te Ching 28


 
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Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Any thoughts on the similarities between the teachings of Jesus and Laozi??

Personally, I'm of the opinion that they're essentially talking about the same sorts of things yet using different mythologies to explain it. Jesus was using Jewish metaphors while Laozi was using Ancient Chinese metaphors. Even if someone still concludes that they were ultimately teaching totally different religions, they have to admit that many of their teachings are still very similar if not the same.
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
I think that they were both speaking about the nature of reality, which is beyond religions and philosophies.
 

Awoon

Well-Known Member
All sages mystics peacemakers pious humble people speak the same language.

Live and let live.

The problem comes when the language of the sages become institutionalized by money grabbers.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I think Jesus originally pertained in study of many Eastern religions, there are a few heavy similarities in Buddhism and Christianity also. There are also many similarities to Hinduism in Christianity. And now as you said, Taoism.


Why doesn't it look like Christianity is Dharmic? The best explanation would be Paul. He did change a lot in the Bible.


So maybe Christianity was an offspring of Zoroastrianism and Eastern Religions.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
All sages mystics peacemakers pious humble people speak the same language.

Live and let live.

The problem comes when the language of the sages become institutionalized by money grabbers.

Any thoughts on the similarities between the teachings of Jesus and Laozi??

Personally, I'm of the opinion that they're essentially talking about the same sorts of things yet using different mythologies to explain it. Jesus was using Jewish metaphors while Laozi was using Ancient Chinese metaphors. Even if someone still concludes that they were ultimately teaching totally different religions, they have to admit that many of their teachings are still very similar if not the same.

I did some research a while back which compared and contrasted the teachings of Jesus and Laozi. As religions, Christianity and Taoism are very different from one another, especially in their modern forms. If one focuses only on the words directly attributed to both founding teachers though, they often seem to be talking about a lot of the same things.

Let's look at some examples. To minimize bias on my part I'll avoid commentary and open analysis for now. I'll just let the words speak for themselves.


Love your neighbor as yourself. -Matthew 22:39

Love the world as your own self. -Tao Te Ching 13



Many that are first will be last, and the last will be first. -Mark I0:31

Softness and gentleness are the companions of life. The hard and strong will fall. The soft and weak will overcome. -Tao Te Ching 76



Those who speak on their own seek their own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and there is nothing false in him. -John 7:18

Those who know do not talk. Those who talk do not know. -Tao Te Ching 56



Do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, offer him the other also. -Matthew 5:38

Respond to anger with virtue. -Tao Te Ching 63


Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you. -Luke 6:27

The sage is good at helping everyone. For that reason there is no rejected person. Therefore the good man is the teacher of the bad and the bad man is the lesson of the good. -Tao Te Ching 27



Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. -Matthew 5:9

Force is followed by loss of strength. This is not the way of Tao. And that which goes against Tao perishes young. -Tao Te Ching 30



Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. -Matthew 5:3-9

To yield is to be preserved whole.
To be bent is to become straight.
To be hollow is to be filled.
To be tattered is to be renewed.
To be in want is to possess.
To have plenty is to be confused. -Tao Te Ching 22



Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. -Luke 6:37

The sage is good to people who are good. He is also good to people who aren't good. This is true goodness.
The sage trusts people who are trustworthy. He also trusts people who aren't trustworthy. This is true trust. -Tao Te Ching 49


All who take the sword will perish by the sword. -Matthew 26:52

A violent man will die a violent death. -Tao Te Ching 42



Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. Carry no purse, no sandals, and salute no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, "Peace be to this house!" -Luke 10:3-5

There is nothing softer or more yielding than water but none is superior to it in overcoming the hard; it has no equal. Weakness overcomes strength and gentleness overcomes rigidity. Everyone knows this, yet no one puts it into practice. -Tao Te Ching 78



Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. -Matthew 6:26

By doing nothing, everything is done. -Tao Te Ching 48


Go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. -Matthew 6:5

Without stepping outside you can know what is happening in the world
Without looking out the window you can see the way of heaven. -Tao Te Ching 47



For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also, -Matthew 6:21

The sage wears rough clothing and holds the jewel in his heart. -Tao Te Ching 70



The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that someone took and sowed in his field; it is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches. -Matthew 13:31-32

The Tao is forever undefined. Small though it is, it cannot be grasped. Tao in the world is like a river flowing home to the sea. -Tao Te Ching 32



For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven. -Ecclesiastes 3:1

All things take shape and rise to activity but I watch them fall back to rest, like vegetation that grows luxuriantly and returns to the soil it springs from. -Tao Te Ching 16


The kingdom of God is among you. -Luke 17:21

The great Tao flows everywhere. -Tao Te Ching 34

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. -John 6:47

He who dies yet his power remains has long life. -Tao Te Ching 33



Unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. -Matthew 18:3

Being the stream of the universe, true & unswerving, become as a little child once more. -Tao Te Ching 28



I think that they were both speaking about the nature of reality, which is beyond religions and philosophies.

I think Jesus originally pertained in study of many Eastern religions, there are a few heavy similarities in Buddhism and Christianity also. There are also many similarities to Hinduism in Christianity. And now as you said, Taoism.


Why doesn't it look like Christianity is Dharmic? The best explanation would be Paul. He did change a lot in the Bible.


So maybe Christianity was an offspring of Zoroastrianism and Eastern Religions.

I agree with all of them.

Nice to see you piled them all up to compare them directly :D
 

Tonymai

Lonesome Religionist
Truth has many different forms of manifestations. Both Jesus and Laozi taught truth. Jesus taught God as a loving Father to all human beings. Laozi taught Tao(God/Deity) is the highest truth for all to realize. Jesus' concept of God is quite original. Laozi's idea followed the traditions of Chinese that the highest truth should be worshiped.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Truth has many different forms of manifestations. Both Jesus and Laozi taught truth. Jesus taught God as a loving Father to all human beings. Laozi taught Tao(God/Deity) is the highest truth for all to realize. Jesus' concept of God is quite original. Laozi's idea followed the traditions of Chinese that the highest truth should be worshiped.

I think Laozi would say that the Truth that can be known is not the eternal Truth. He only taught tentative truth. Perhaps the truth most useful to our ecological and social situation, but not absolute. Also, the Tao isn't a God or deity nor should be worshiped so I guess they do have that difference in beliefs as well.

Jesus came from a Jewish tradition, although he may have been influenced by some Eastern thought. What did he do between 12 and 33? I don't know, so it may just be speculation. Laozi (or the actual authors) were influenced by the teachings of Ancient sages and Chinese culture at the time. I don't know if anything is entirely original anyway or just a continuous evolution of that which came before it. Some changes may be more original and profound than other changes though, I suppose.
 

Tonymai

Lonesome Religionist
Tao translated properly from Chinese to English should be Deity. However, Taoism now is very far off from Laozi's original teaching. The essence taught by Laozi was to worship/realize the highest Truth (He called it Tao).
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Tao translated properly from Chinese to English should be Deity. However, Taoism now is very far off from Laozi's original teaching. The essence taught by Laozi was to worship/realize the highest Truth (He called it Tao).

Oh, I always thought the closest translation was "way" or "path" and referred to the ways that things naturally are or a particular way of living. I have several translations of the Tao Te Ching and none of them translate it as Deity. I wouldn't be surprised I guess if Taoism is very different now since most things evolve naturally. Perhaps you've found some useful sources you could send so I could do a little research of my own?
 

Tonymai

Lonesome Religionist
Way and path are literal means for the generations after Laozi, but they were not Laozi's original intention. I am Chinese.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Way and path are literal means for the generations after Laozi, but they were not Laozi's original intention. I am Chinese.

Ah, neat.

I'm of the opinion that Laozi never even existed, but that the Tao Te Ching was written by a school or group of people over time. I still feel that the wisdom speaks for itself. Are all the teachings about Te, Wei Wu Wei, transcendence of opposites, naturalness, Pu, etc. also mistranslated over time and incorrect in conveying original intention?
 

Tonymai

Lonesome Religionist
Taozi was real for Confucius learned from him. He had a concept of trinity in his original teaching which was not conceptually translated. He was a brilliant original thinker like Jesus. His followers could not match his wisdom just like the followers of Jesus perverted a lot of his brilliant teachings. Taoism and Christianity are somewhat polluted downstream of Laozi' and Jesus original teachings respectively.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Taozi was real for Confucius learned from him. He had a concept of trinity in his original teaching which was not conceptually translated. He was a brilliant original thinker like Jesus. His followers could not match his wisdom just like the followers of Jesus perverted a lot of his brilliant teachings. Taoism and Christianity are somewhat polluted downstream of Laozi' and Jesus original teachings respectively.

Interesting.

Can you recommend any books about this history and evolution of Taoist teachings?
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Taoism and Christianity are somewhat polluted downstream of Laozi' and Jesus original teachings respectively.

I don't know if it's a pollution so much as an evolution of thought. I don't like to become too invested in any one person's thinking anyway. I do endorse the modern incarnation of philosophical/spiritual Taoism, although I don't think I should have to call myself a neo-Taoist or something since I think original Taoism was open to uncertainty and change of "Truth".
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I am sorry that I did not study texts about Taoism.

I see. Well, you'll understand why I can't accept your interpretation and translation of it until I can access some scholarly research on the subject of "Tao" as "Deity". Thanks for sharing your views, though. It's definitely food for thought.
 

Tonymai

Lonesome Religionist
I don't know if it's a pollution so much as an evolution of thought. I don't like to become too invested in any one person's thinking anyway. I do endorse the modern incarnation of philosophical/spiritual Taoism, although I don't think I should have to call myself a neo-Taoist or something since I think original Taoism was open to uncertainty and change of "Truth".

Deity(Truth) is changeless. Our perception of Deity(Truth) changes as we grow(evolute). This is relativism, but it emphasizes our immaturity. Certainty must be on Deity(Truth) part, not one our part.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Deity(Truth) is changeless. Our perception of Deity(Truth) changes as we grow(evolute). This is relativism, but it emphasizes our immaturity. Certainty must be on Deity(Truth) part, not one our part.

Interesting beliefs. Thanks for sharing.
 
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