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Jesus as Vespasion

Tellurian

Tellurian

Active Member
More information is being revealed to show that the biblical Jesus was actually a fictional, composite figure who was created by the writers of the gospels in the second century from the stories of several different historical persons.

The stories in Mark 8:23 and John 9:11 about how the biblical Jesus supposedly cured a blind man by putting spit and dirt in the man's eyes actually came from the stories about the Roman Vespasion doing the same as written by Tacitus in his Histories and by Suetonius in his Lives of the 12 Caesars.

Stories about others in the Talmud and in the works of Josephus were also used in creating the stories of the biblical Jesus. This same technique is not new as it has also been used in creating the legends of others such as King Arthur and Robin Hood.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
It's stand-up.

My favorite kind, too. Improv!!!!
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
My god this is hilarious. I hope godnotgod reads this.... Tullerian, you should charge him for lessons.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
One just has to wonder if our friend bothered to read Tacitus and Suetonius and the relevant material in the Gospels to see if there is any relationship at all (the date of authorship // date of circulation of all three sets of material would be useful as well, haha).

One also wonders if our friend even knows what the relevant materials even are.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Let's wait to see the new information. I have no doubt but that it will emanate from peer-reviewed scholarship of the highest quality.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Jayhawker Soule said:
Let's wait to see the new information. I have no doubt but that it will emanate from peer-reviewed scholarship of the highest quality.
Click to expand...

It probably comes from a website of the highest quality.

It's truly amazing to me how gullible people are -- when they are pretending to have carefully looked into a matter.

We both know it's not new, but if it was, it would be new because it's so stupid that no one has sunk that low before.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Jeez. Nobody is interested in this??

Is it too much to hope for that everyone knows when the Gospels were written, when Suetonius and Tacitus lived and when these works became widely circulated?

Perhaps folks who didn't know already gleaned the elementary knowledge needed to find this stuff out from the wiki?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
This particular Jesus myth didn't come from Tacitus or Suetonius.

It came from Atilla the Hun.

We even have it on video. Both Atilla and Jesus have beards. So obviously, Christians framed their myths around him.

[youtube]IUT10dZY5OI[/youtube]
Attila The Hun - Trailer - YouTube
 
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A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Tellurian said:
Stories about others in the Talmud and in the works of Josephus were also used in creating the stories of the biblical Jesus. This same technique is not new as it has also been used in creating the legends of others such as King Arthur and Robin Hood.
Click to expand...

So when do you think that the Talmud and Josephus were written and circulated? And the Gospels?

It's as if the writers of the Gospels were emailed writings from the future and immediately used them.

Man I wish you were online trying to defend this. And I'm very curious to find out who deceived you.
 
Tellurian

Tellurian

Active Member
angellous_evangellous said:
One just has to wonder if our friend bothered to read Tacitus and Suetonius and the relevant material in the Gospels to see if there is any relationship at all (the date of authorship // date of circulation of all three sets of material would be useful as well, haha).

One also wonders if our friend even knows what the relevant materials even are.
Click to expand...

Mark 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

John 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay

Tacitus Histories [4.81] In the months during which Vespasian was waiting at Alexandria for the periodical return of the summer gales and settled weather at sea, many wonders occurred which seemed to point him out as the object of the favour of heaven and of the partiality of the Gods. One of the common people of Alexandria, well known for his blindness, threw himself at the Emperor's knees, and implored him with groans to heal his infirmity. This he did by the advice of the God Serapis, whom this nation, devoted as it is to many superstitions, worships more than any other divinity. He begged Vespasian that he would deign to moisten his cheeks and eye-balls with his spittle. Another with a diseased hand, at the counsel of the same God, prayed that the limb might feet the print of a Caesar's foot. At first Vespasian ridiculed and repulsed them. They persisted; and he, though on the one hand he feared the scandal of a fruitless attempt, yet, on the other, was induced by the entreaties of the men and by the language of his flatterers to hope for success. At last he ordered that the opinion of physicians should be taken, as to whether such blindness and infirmity were within the reach of human skill. They discussed the matter from different points of view. "In the one case," they said, "the faculty of sight was not wholly destroyed, and might return, if the obstacies were removed; in the other case, the limb, which had fallen into a diseased condition, might be restored, if a healing influence were applied; such, perhaps, might be the pleasure of the Gods, and the Emperor might be chosen to be the minister of the divine will; at any rate, all the glory of a successful remedy would be Caesar's, while the ridicule of failure would fall on the sufferers." And so Vespasian, supposing that all things were possible to his good fortune, and that nothing was any longer past belief, with a joyful countenance, amid the intense expectation of the multitude of bystanders, accomplished what was required. The hand was instantly restored to its use, and the light of day again shone upon the blind. Persons actually present attest both facts, even now when nothing is to be gained by falsehood.

Suetonius, Life of Vespasian, 2 Vespasian as yet lacked prestige and a certain divinity, so to speak, since he was an unexpected and still new-made emperor; but these also were given him. A man of the people who was blind, and another who was lame, came to him together as he sat on the tribunal, begging for the help for their disorders which Serapis had promised in a dream; for the god declared that Vespasian would restore the eyes, if he would spit upon them, and give strength to the leg, if he would deign to touch it with his heel. 3 Though he had hardly any faith that this could possibly succeed, and therefore shrank even from making the attempt, he was at last prevailed upon by his friends and tried both things in public before a large crowd; and with success. At this same time, by the direction of certain soothsayers, some vases of antique workmanship were dug up in a consecrated spot at Tegea in Arcadia and on them was an image very like Vespasian.

There is NO evidence that the gospel stories were written in the first century. There is only wishful speculation by Christians that they were written that early. Marcion wrote his Euangelion New Testament about 140 CE, and the biblical gospel stories seem to have been written from Marcion's version with the gospel called Luke being a modified version of Marcion's "gospel". Then the gospels called Mark and Matthew became copies of Luke, which was a copy of Marcion's Euangelion. Later Irenaeus thought some corrections were necessary so he wrote the gospel called John to try to "correct" some statements in the previous gospels. That is the way the writings of Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius came BEFORE the writing of the biblical gospel stories.
 
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