Did Jesus say he was God???

From Barne's Commentary: You can go here for many more commentaries and the greek meaning: http://biblecommenter.com/romans/9-5.htm

Who is over all - This is an appellation that belongs only to the true God. It implies supreme divinity; and is full proof that the Messiah is divine: Much effort has been made to show that this is not the true rendering, but without success. There are no various readings in the Greek manuscripts of any consequence; and the connection here evidently requires us to understand this of a nature that is not "according to the flesh," i. e., as the apostle here shows, of the divine nature.
God blessed forever - This is evidently applied to the Lord Jesus; and it proves that he is divine. If the translation is fairly made, and it has never been proved to be erroneous, it demonstrates that he is God as well as man. The doxology "blessed forever" was usually added by the Jewish writers after the mention of the name God, as an expression of reverence. (See the various interpretations that have been proposed on this passage examined in Prof. Stuart's Notes on this verse.)

Mark2020 said:

Accusing me now? Not enough to accuse all translators in the world?

(Romans 9:5 [NIV])
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [Pe****ta])
ܘܐܒܗܬܐ ܘܡܢܗܘܢ ܐܬܚܙܝ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܒܤܪ ܕܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܐܠܗܐ ܕܥܠ ܟܠ ܕܠܗ ܬܫܒܚܢ ܘܒܘܪܟܢ ܠܥܠܡ ܥܠܡܝܢ ܐܡܝܢ ܀

Pe****ta translation:
(Etheridge) and the fathers; and from whom appeared the Meshiha in the flesh, who is Aloha over all: his be praises and benedictions to the age of ages. Amen.
(Murdock) and from among whom, Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is God over all; to whom be praises and benediction, for ever and ever; Amen.
(Lamsa) Whose are the fathers, from among whom Christ appeared in the flesh, who is God over all, to whom are due praises and thanksgiving, for ever and ever. Amen.


(Romans 9:5 [CopticB])
ⲛⲏ ⲉⲧⲉ `ⲛⲟⲩⲟⲩ ⲛⲉ ⲛⲓⲓⲟϯ ⲟⲩⲟϩ `ⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩ ⲟⲛ ⲁ ⲡ̅ⲭ̅ⲥ `ⲓ `ⲉⲃⲟⲗ `ⲛϧⲏⲧⲟⲩ ⲕⲁⲧⲁ ⲥⲁⲣⲝ ⲫⲏ ⲉⲧⲭⲏ ϩⲓϫⲉⲛ ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ⲛⲓⲃⲉⲛ ⲫϯ ⲉⲧ`ⲥⲙⲁⲣⲱⲟⲩⲧ ϣⲁ ⲉⲛⲉϩ ⲁⲙⲏⲛ
ⲡ̅ⲭ̅ⲥ: Christ
ⲁ ... `ⲓ `ⲉⲃⲟⲗ `ⲛϧⲏⲧⲟⲩ ⲕⲁⲧⲁ ⲥⲁⲣⲝ: came from them according to flesh
ⲫⲏ ⲉⲧⲭⲏ ϩⲓϫⲉⲛ ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ⲛⲓⲃⲉⲛ ⲫϯ: who is over all God
ⲉⲧ`ⲥⲙⲁⲣⲱⲟⲩⲧ ϣⲁ ⲉⲛⲉϩ ⲁⲙⲏⲛ: blessed/praised (adjective) for ever amen

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Going by the Greek and those translations, it appears it is in fact an issue of the Anarthrous as well as a Doxology. As Mattweedhacker demonstrated, the issue of Syriac "Eloha" articulation depends on the case, which was given with the "With" in John 1:1, it can mean "a god" since it is used the same regardless of the Articulation in other translations. Perhaps he can weigh in here for the Coptic.

Shermana said:

Going by the Greek ...

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No, that's just your poor Greek and understanding of these languages

(Romans 9:5 [NIV]) Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

"For better were it for them that their king should be Christ, of the seed of David, of the tribe of Judah. Nevertheless because Christ Himself is of the seed of David after the flesh, but God above all things blessed for ever" Augustin

"Of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is God over all?" John Chrysostom

"Of whom is Christ according to the flesh, who is God over all." John Chrysostom

"Who is He Who made all things, and without Whom no existing thing does exist? Who is He in Whom all things were created, and in Whom all things that are have their continuance? In Whom do we live and move and have our being? Who is He Who hath in Himself all that the Father hath? Does what has been said leave us any longer in ignorance of Him Who is "God over all" " Gregory of Nyssa

"Whose are the fathers, and from whom is Christ according to the flesh, who is God over all, blessed for ever." Irenaeus

"of whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is God over all, blessed for evermore" Cyprian

And as usual there are tens more...

Mark2020 said:

(Romans 9:5 [NIV]) Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

"For better were it for them that their king should be Christ, of the seed of David, of the tribe of Judah. Nevertheless because Christ Himself is of the seed of David after the flesh, but God above all things blessed for ever" Augustin

"Of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is God over all?" John Chrysostom

"Of whom is Christ according to the flesh, who is God over all." John Chrysostom

"Who is He Who made all things, and without Whom no existing thing does exist? Who is He in Whom all things were created, and in Whom all things that are have their continuance? In Whom do we live and move and have our being? Who is He Who hath in Himself all that the Father hath? Does what has been said leave us any longer in ignorance of Him Who is "God over all" " Gregory of Nyssa

"Whose are the fathers, and from whom is Christ according to the flesh, who is God over all, blessed for ever." Irenaeus

"of whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is God over all, blessed for evermore" Cyprian

And as usual there are tens more...

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All you've proven here is that they've quoted Romans 9:5, as a particular translator has translated. Talk about "Useless words".

Shermana said:

All you've proven here is that they've quoted Romans 9:5, as a particular translator has translated. Talk about "Useless words".

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Agreed...

Shermana said:

Talk about "Useless words".

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lol
So go get the originals.
And try to read your own posts.

Codex Sinaiticus
Roman 9:1-5
I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing me testimony in the Holy Spirit, that I have great grief and unceasing sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belong the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the religious service, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and from whom is Christ according to the flesh: who is over all, God blessed for ever, Amen.

Good grief.....Romans 9:1-5 has absolutely nothing to do with Yeshua being "God".

Paul uses a similar expression to 9:5 at (2 Corinthians 11:31)

2 Corinthians 11:32
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knows that I lie not.

Dirty Penguin said:

Agreed...

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Of course you do.

Dirty Penguin said:

Codex Sinaiticus
Roman 9:1-5
...

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You don't understand your own words.
And the quote is wrong.

Before trying to discuss the English translation, get the Greek and discuss it.

Mark2020 said:

And the quote is wrong.

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Sure it is......

Of course you'll follow in Shormanas steps calling all translators in all languages bad.

(Romans 9:5 [NIV])
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [TR])
ων οι πατερες και εξ ων ο χριστος το κατα σαρκα ο ων επι παντων θεος ευλογητος εις τους αιωνας αμην

(Romans 9:5 [CopticB])
ⲛⲏ ⲉⲧⲉ `ⲛⲟⲩⲟⲩ ⲛⲉ ⲛⲓⲓⲟϯ ⲟⲩⲟϩ `ⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩ ⲟⲛ ⲁ ⲡ̅ⲭ̅ⲥ `ⲓ `ⲉⲃⲟⲗ `ⲛϧⲏⲧⲟⲩ ⲕⲁⲧⲁ ⲥⲁⲣⲝ ⲫⲏ ⲉⲧⲭⲏ ϩⲓϫⲉⲛ ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ⲛⲓⲃⲉⲛ ⲫϯ ⲉⲧ`ⲥⲙⲁⲣⲱⲟⲩⲧ ϣⲁ ⲉⲛⲉϩ ⲁⲙⲏⲛ

(Romans 9:5 [Pe****ta])
ܘܐܒܗܬܐ ܘܡܢܗܘܢ ܐܬܚܙܝ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܒܤܪ ܕܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܐܠܗܐ ܕܥܠ ܟܠ ܕܠܗ ܬܫܒܚܢ ܘܒܘܪܟܢ ܠܥܠܡ ܥܠܡܝܢ ܐܡܝܢ ܀

(Romans 9:5 [AraSVDV])
وَلَهُمُ الآبَاءُ، وَمِنْهُمُ الْمَسِيحُ حَسَبَ الْجَسَدِ، الْكَائِنُ عَلَى الْكُلِّ إِلهًا مُبَارَكًا إِلَى الأَبَدِ. آمِينَ.

(Romans 9:5 [ESV])
To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [Luther])
welcher auch sind die Väter, und aus welchen Christus herkommt nach dem Fleisch, der da ist Gott über alles, gelobt in Ewigkeit. Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [DarbyFR]) sont les pères, et desquels, selon la chair, est issus le Christ, qui est sur toutes choses Dieu béni éternellement. Amen!

(Romans 9:5 [IRB]) dei quali sono i padri, e dai quali è venuto, secondo la carne, il Cristo, che è sopra tutte le cose Dio benedetto in eterno. Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [NET]) To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [CopticS]) ΝΑΙ ΕΤΕΝΟΥΟΥ ΝΕ ΝΕΙΟΤΕ ΑΥШ ΝΤΑ ΠΕΧΡΙСΤΟС ΕΙ ΕΒΟΛ ΝϨΗΤΟΥ ΚΑΤΑ СΑΡΞ ΠΝΟΥΤΕ ΕΤϨΙϪΝ ΟΥΟΝ ΝΙΜ ΠΕΤСΜΑΜΑΑΤ ϢΑ ΝΙΕΝΕϨ ϨΑΜΗΝ.

(Romans 9:5 [LEB]) to whom belong the patriarchs, and from whom is the Christ according to human descent, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.

Mark2020 said:

Before trying to discuss the English translation, get the Greek and discuss it.

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Romans 9:5 Biblos Interlinear Bible

Codex Sinaiticus
whose are the fathers, and from whom is Christ according to the flesh: who is over all, God blessed for ever, Amen.

KJV
Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen

Douay Rheims
Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Darby Translation
whose are the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, is the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

English Revised Version
whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Webster's Bible Translation
Whose are the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Weymouth New Testament
To them the Patriarchs belong, and from them in respect of His human lineage came the Christ, who is exalted above all, God blessed throughout the Ages. Amen.

World English Bible
of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.

Young's Literal Translation
whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.

Revised Standard Version (Bible revised by 50 cooperating Christian denominations)
to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

And I agree with them all. Yeshua is not God in that verse.........


2 Corinthians 11:32
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knows that I lie not.

Dirty Penguin said:

..

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You consider this Greek?

And before putting your head behind your hand go check your verse reference and its Greek and the Codex Sinaticus, and tell me where you got these commas from.

(Romans 9:5 [NIV])
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [TR])
ων οι πατερες και εξ ων ο χριστος το κατα σαρκα ο ων επι παντων θεος ευλογητος εις τους αιωνας αμην

It's obvious in English, Greek, and all translations (including the ancient ones) that I quoted.

If you want to discuss it, then do so in Greek.

Even from your link:
θεὸς : Noun (God)
εὐλογητὸς : Adjective (blessed)

1 John 5
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. [7] And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

JacobEzra said:

1 John 5
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. [7] And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

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are you using this verse to prove the trinity?

Muffled said:

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

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Actually you will find the divinity of Jesus was hot debated at the time. Around 300 AD emperor Nero got a bunch of clerics to sit down and upgrade him from man to deity, incorporate it into the bible and teachings, so it is hardly surprising you find evidence of him as a deity in the bible.

I never heard of a religious person looking anywhere else for evidence of anything, so I do not expect you to learn anything new and teach us anything we have not already heard.

In fact if you wish to hang on to stories delivered by the semi literate from 1500 years ago good luck to you, but you cannot stop evolution. Look at your kids numb nuts.

Pegg said:

are you using this verse to prove the trinity?

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Idk, you tell me lol

JacobEzra said:

Idk, you tell me lol

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i was just surprised to see you using that verse really.

that verse is a known 'addition'... its not found in the Jeromes vulgate, but was added into the revision made by Clementine in the 15th century. It surprises me to see some churches still using known additions.