How does the Jedi Religion compare to it's fictional counterpart in Star Wars?

"Conquer yourself, and you will conquer your opponent."
Who said it?

Master Yoda in the Jedi Handbook (but using middle-speak)
or
Sun Tzu in the Art of War.

I'll stick with original. It doesn't need to be recycled through a make believe, little, green sage for me to get the meaning of it. I'll take reality.

Otherright said:

Its OK, as science fiction. This is just an old argument for me. One of my best friends is
the biggest Star Wars geek I've ever met. He's so bad, as a prank one night, some of our friends created a facebook page for him. The quote was, "A Star Destroyer has 24 windows on each side."

I've always said, "Never get your religion from a science fiction writer." Remember Hubbard. Yeah... When I say this, my friends often remind me I'm a writer, to which I correct, "I don't write religion. I may do research and write an essay on religion, but I don't write religion.

I'm not saying Jediism is a religion, but with its mythological references, it can be. Its dependent on the adherent.

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Well, whether or not Star Wars is actually science fiction or fantasy is the topic of another debate.

Hubbard actually tried to create a religion; Lucas didn't. I think that's a key difference between Jediism and Scientology. (Plus one is organized and the other isn't.)

Remember that, for most of us, Star Wars was the first time we heard such wisdom. At the time, it had otherwise been delegated to so-called "counter-culture." Heck, a scene from Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon was removed from the theatrical release because it was feared that people would see it as "Eastern mystic babble." Star Wars provided a way in which the wisdom can be grasped by us. (I bet Campbell had something to do with that. )

Riverwolf said:

Well, whether or not Star Wars is actually science fiction or fantasy is the topic of another debate.

Hubbard actually tried to create a religion; Lucas didn't. I think that's a key difference between Jediism and Scientology. (Plus one is organized and the other isn't.)

Remember that, for most of us, Star Wars was the first time we heard such wisdom. At the time, it had otherwise been delegated to so-called "counter-culture." Heck, a scene from Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon was removed from the theatrical release because it was feared that people would see it as "Eastern mystic babble." Star Wars provided a way in which the wisdom can be grasped by us. (I bet Campbell had something to do with that. )

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I would bet that he had read Campbell before writing it. I will give Star Wars this, it is a perfect rendition of The Hero of a Thousand Faces, rather Lucas intended it to be or not. It covers every aspect Campbell discusses.

Otherright said:

I would bet that he had read Campbell before writing it. I will give Star Wars this, it is a perfect rendition of The Hero of a Thousand Faces, rather Lucas intended it to be or not. It covers every aspect Campbell discusses.

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Actually, Lucas was directly influenced by Hero of a Thousand Faces. He had already written his first draft of Star Wars, but altered it a bit after reading the book.

Riverwolf said:

Actually, Lucas was directly influenced by Hero of a Thousand Faces. He had already written his first draft of Star Wars, but altered it a bit after reading the book.

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You know, except that the entire bit about the rebels and the alliance was a direct take on WWII Naziism.

Photonic said:

You know, except that the entire bit about the rebels and the alliance was a direct take on WWII Naziism.

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Indeed. ^_^ If you read the original backstory from the Second Edition Star Wars RPG sourcebook, it really feels like the rise of Nazi Germany.

These are concepts that most of these people believed in before they figured out what to call it.

Also I can see what you are TRYING to say about Yoda and his quoting of eastern wisdom... BUT you're actually making a mistake in your argument based on assumption, not facts.

There are more "Jedi" than you'd think. I actually know one, and have met his friends. All of their bookshelves have one thing in common, other than books on Star Wars and believe it or not... Star Trek (gasp) and that is the fact that ALL of them have books on Eastern thought. I noted that each had the book of five rings, the art of war, various books on bushido, Buddhism, Taoism and many other books. They hold to the Jediism thing because they don't believe in EVERYTHING in these philosophies, but most of it.

I suppose this makes them much like eclectic pagans. But honestly, while I can see that being annoying in some cases, its better to call themselves Jedi than to call themselves Taoist and try to make the religion conform to their ideals and misrepresent it to people.

Also, when quoting something from The Art of War, they quote Sun Tzu, not Yoda.

That's it. I'm starting my own Sith cult. All I need is one other person to do my bidding.
Any takers?