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Actually, I believe I do understand what the role of the Holy Spirit is. I was just trying to get other Christians to stop and think about their own views. I appreciate your input, even though I don't agree that the Holy Spirit represents the divine feminine. (As a Latter-day Saint, I do believe in the divine feminine, though. I just don't want to discuss it on this thread.)EnhancedSpirit said:I'm trying to clear up the confusion. You say you do not understand what the role of the Holy Spirit is. The role of the holy spirit is much like the role of a mother. It is the part of God that is compassionate, the part of god who forgives, the part of God who teaches, The part of God who communicates with the heart of man. God, the Father, is the creative force of God, the provider, the disciplinarian (based on spiritual laws) and there is the son, which is that which comes out of the mother and the father (the two shall become one
I disagree about God not having a physical body. But it's interesting that you would say what you did, because it leads right into my reason for starting this thread. Most Christians believe that "God" has no physical form, that He is merely a Spirit. On the other hand, many believe that His Son Jesus Christ does have the form of a man. (How they can be part of a single substance when one is corporeal and the other is not is something I'll never understand if I live to be a hundred, but is, again, not the subject of this thread.)God is all three in one (but there is not a physical body, so you can't get hung up on that image). God made us in his image, but God could not fit all in one human form, the male/female part are split into men and women, and when the two become one, the third 'part' of God can finally become flesh. All three together is God, God is Love. The love between a woman and a man the love between parent and child, all this together is God.
http://www.siscom.net/~direct/holyspirit/bible_times.htm said:The human flesh that Jesus inhabited however, was ordinary and powerless to perform the tasks Jesus was called to do. Only through God's Spirit could the human Jesus perform the works that only God can perform.
The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus with power at His baptism by John. (Matthew 3:16) Soon thereafter the Holy Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of satan...providing the human Jesus with the power to overcome temptation. (Matthew 4:1)
In His earthly ministry Jesus performed miracles and healings that are beyond the capacity of human beings...doing so by the power of the Holy Spirit. He cast out devils by the Holy Spirit and gave God's commandments to the people by the Holy Spirit.
Before He returned to heaven Jesus revealed to His disciples that they too would be empowered with a special baptism of the Holy Spirit.
He sent His disciples forth to minister in various cities. (Matthew, chapter 10) They were to go preaching and healing all manner of disease...assured that they would be empowered to speak and heal by the Holy Spirit which Jesus gave to them. (Matthew 10:20)
They went forth speaking by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 4:8,31) They comforted others by the Holy Spirit. (Acts 9:31)
They became great witnesses with great power through the abiding presence of God's Spirit. (Acts 1:8, 5:32, 8:14-26)
They dreamed dreams, saw visions and prophesied through the power of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:12-18, 7:55, 9:17-18)
So Spirit, how did you come to believe these things? I've never heard a Christian explain it the way you do and I can't imagine you would be able to find a denomination that taught this. Your analogies are interesting, but I just don't find any scriptural support for them. So I'm wondering if you just came to this conclusion on your own or what? Thanks!EnhancedSpirit said:If we use ourselves as a mirror. We can look at the fact that we are mind, body and spirit. God the Father is the 'mind', Jesus is the 'body' and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit. Our body will die, just as Jesus did. Our minds are the creative force within us, just like God, the Father created us, and the Spirit is what connects us all.
Let's say that the Holy Spirit is like a spiritual umbilical cord. For many people, this cord is only the size of a small thread, as we grow spiritually, the connection gets bigger. It is said of Jesus that the Holy Spirit was given without measure unto Him (John 3:34). So the cord connected to Jesus was like the size of a tree trunk compared to the connections the rest of us have. We have the ability to grow our connection and to be as open to the Holy Spirit as was Jesus.
What makes the cord expand is love, compassion, forgiveness, charity, and grace. What constricts the cord is hate, fear, jealousy, greed, etc. And to sever the cord completely, is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. Sin is 'turning away from God', and if you completely severe that connection, then God can no longer work through you. By opening that connection, you allow God's will to flow freely and unobstructed.
Thanks, May. I disagree with your interpretation, but I don't suppose that surprises you any.may said:Gods spirit is an active force that does things. It was used to call for the disciples Barnabas and Saul to be set aside for special missionary work ...acts 13;2
It was the apostle Paul who wrote: "Do not be grieving Gods holy spirit." (Ephesians 4:30) Some take these words to be an indication that the holy spirit is a person. the early Christians viewed the holy spirit neither as a person nor as a god equal to the Most High as part of a so-called Trinity. (Luke 12:42) So Paul was not referring to Gods holy spirit as a person.
Gods holy spirit is his invisible active force. (Genesis 1:2) yes Gods active force can acheive many things ...1 corinthians 12;11
NoName said:May - How can you cause something that is just someone else's "active force" to grieve? Wouldn't you actually be causing the ones that "activates" that force to grieve? Like if I try to give you some food, and you bite my hand, does my hand grieve, or do I? I do. So if the HOly Spirit were just an "active force," how is it grieved?
its best to do study to find out what the holy spirit is ,then the accurate understanding of the bible becomes clear , so yes we should use our brains as you mentioned.NoName said:Okay may. Bravo! You told me scriptural verses that said the Holy Spirit could grieve. That's what I said. I'm saying how could something that is simply and "active force" grieve. Active forces don't have feelings. I don't think you will find this in the Bible, either. You'll have to use your brain.
EnhancedSpirit said:The point was the 'ignored one', you are right. We as Christians have been ignoring the Holy Spirit, and we should pay more attention to our feminine side, and learn to live our lives with compassion for others, and allowing the Holy Spirit to flow through us. It is said that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is against the Holy Spirit. It is because the Holy Spirit is the thread of God that is connected to the spirit within each of us, and if we ignore that, it's like cutting the phone cord.
NetDoc,NetDoc said:The holy ghost is my counselor. He helps me to understand what I need to change to be like God.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"
23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. NIV
The Holy Spirit changes my heart:
II Corinthians 3:17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV
The Holy Spirit fills my heart with LOVE:
Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. N IV
The Holy Spirit is my SEAL of redemption, my spiritual "Get out of Jail FREE" card:
Ephesians 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possessionto the praise of his glory. NIV
But most importantly, the Spirit gives me the mind of Christ:
I Corinthians 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. NIV
Why would God be so distant? He's our loving Father! Why would he suddenly just retreat from his children and become "mysterious and unknowable"?!NetDoc said:You know Kathryn,
I don't think that anyone but God fully understands this!
Amen and Amen!!!!NetDoc said:You know Kathryn,
I don't think that anyone but God fully understands this!
We like to think in terms of flesh and blood, but I Corinthians teaches us that we will abandon that "body" for a "spiritual" one:
I Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
55 "Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV
We have been brainwashed to consider the spiritual world as "fake" and the physical world as "real". The converse is true. The physical world is transitory and the spiritual is for ever!
Why don't ants understand computers? It's not that God has retreated from us and become unknowable, it's that He's so completely other (as the Creator of all) that we, His creations, cannot truly understand Him. We have no frame of reference, being bound up in the temporal and physical world, for understanding the eternal. That's why we have to rely on revelation, not reason, for our understanding of God. Reason can help to a degree but God remains beyond our understanding.Aqualung said:Why would God be so distant? He's our loving Father! Why would he suddenly just retreat from his children and become "mysterious and unknowable"?!