Which day?

Aqualung · Oct 22, 2005

wmam said:
I just looked up a link that shows the 613 Laws. Now if you take out those laws to do with sacrifice and offerings as well as those laws pertaining to the priesthood because there is only one Priest now and all law pertaing to the Temple because it is destroyed. ummmmmmmmm ........ have I left anything out? ........... other than those laws which through scripture it is plainly shown that YAHshua, or His sacrifice, either did away with them or changed them. Or maybe they are sort of put on hold until lets say the Temple is rebuilt and the Priesthood is re-established, i.e. the Levitical Priesthood as in the Kohanim, as well as Tithes cause there are no Levites to recieve them. As stated if you take those Laws out and look at the rest. What Law is so distastefull unless you are just not wanting to obey thy Father?

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

Well, you can't take out the priest because there actually are a lot of priests, and of course Jesus has commanded us in these latter days to build up temples . . .

You know, though, we sort of beleive in something similar. That in the very end, there will be a last blood sacrifice of animals.

wmam · Oct 22, 2005

Aqualung said:
no it doesn't. Because it is no longer a commandement that I follow the mosaic law. OR else Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would not be saints, and I think they were better than the average follower of Mosaic Law.

So you believe that they are the only Saints?

I believe that they also had the Law with them as well. It might not have been written in stone but in their minds and hearts.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I stand firm in my belief as I see you do as well.

Shalom

wmam · Oct 22, 2005

Aqualung said:
Well, you can't take out the priest because there actually are a lot of priests, and of course Jesus has commanded us in these latter days to build up temples . . .

You know, though, we sort of beleive in something similar. That in the very end, there will be a last blood sacrifice of animals.

Help me locate where it states that YAHshua commanded that we build up Temples.

I can and do take out the Priest because I believe that they became null and void after YAHshua was made the High Priest under the order of Malchisidec. He is the only Priest. Through His mediation and no other. Or at least this is my belief. Others are entitled to their own. I'm not sure I follow you on this last blood sacrifice........... YAHshua was the last of the so called blood sacrifices. There not need be anymore.

Aqualung · Oct 22, 2005

wmam said:
So you believe that they are the only Saints?

No. But I beleive they are saints. Yet if a saint were defined as those who follow the mosaic law, they wouldn't be saints.

wmam said:
I believe that they also had the Law with them as well. It might not have been written in stone but in their minds and hearts.

Ah, I beleive the opposite. I beleive they had the gospel of Jesus Christ written in their hearts. I beleive that the Jews heardened their hearts to this gospel, so they had to get the lower law. Now we have Christ's gospel again, so we don't need that lower law.

wmam said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I stand firm in my belief as I see you do as well.

Shalom

Yes, and it was a really good debate.

wmam said:
Help me locate where it states that YAHshua commanded that we build up Temples.

That's in the doctrine and Covenants.

wmam said:
I can and do take out the Priest because I believe that they became null and void after YAHshua was made the High Priest under the order of Malchisidec. He is the only Priest. Through His mediation and no other. Or at least this is my belief. Others are entitled to their own. I'm not sure I follow you on this last blood sacrifice........... YAHshua was the last of the so called blood sacrifices. There not need be anymore.

Priests didn't just do blood sacrifices.

wmam · Oct 22, 2005

Aqualung said:
No. But I beleive they are saints. Yet if a saint were defined as those who follow the mosaic law, they wouldn't be saints.

Ah, I beleive the opposite. I beleive they had the gospel of Jesus Christ written in their hearts. I beleive that the Jews heardened their hearts to this gospel, so they had to get the lower law. Now we have Christ's gospel again, so we don't need that lower law.

Yes, and it was a really good debate.

That's in the doctrine and Covenants.
Priests didn't just do blood sacrifices.

I never said that they were defined by doing the Mosaic Law. The scripture said that they keep the Commandments of YAHweh, and the faith of YAHshua. Do you dispute the scripture?

I still don't get where you get this "High" Law and "Lower" Law.

Law is Law and if it came from YAHweh then it is just LAW. YAHshua does the bidding of the one who sent Him. YAHweh. Yahsua does not make Law. His Father made the Law. YAHshua taught us how to better understand the same Law. He also spoke of Law's that man added. I believe He called it a burdensome yoke. So when looking into the Laws we have to try and discern that which was wrongly put there by vain men.

Yes it was and is a good debate. I thank you.

What doctrine and where in the Covenants? This you gave isn't a very clear answer. One could spnd a lot of time researching something that one may claim as fact without proof to back it up other than to say it is there somewhere. LOL ... Give one some help please.

I never said that the Priest only duties where that of blood sacrifices. I just said that they where resolved. Yahshua stands as the one and only Priest.

Aqualung · Oct 22, 2005

wmam said:
I never said that they were defined by doing the Mosaic Law. The scripture said that they keep the Commandments of YAHweh, and the faith of YAHshua. Do you dispute the scripture?

I still don't get where you get this "High" Law and "Lower" Law.

Law is Law and if it came from YAHweh then it is just LAW. YAHshua does the bidding of the one who sent Him. YAHweh. Yahsua does not make Law. His Father made the Law. YAHshua taught us how to better understand the same Law. He also spoke of Law's that man added. I believe He called it a burdensome yoke. So when looking into the Laws we have to try and discern that which was wrongly put there by vain men.

Yes it was and is a good debate. I thank you.

What doctrine and where in the Covenants? This you gave isn't a very clear answer. One could spnd a lot of time researching something that one may claim as fact without proof to back it up other than to say it is there somewhere. LOL ... Give one some help please.

I never said that the Priest only duties where that of blood sacrifices. I just said that they where resolved. Yahshua stands as the one and only Priest.

Okay, I'll have to answer the bulk of this later. Doctrine & Covenants is modern day revelation given to the prophet joseph smith and is one of the LDS four standard works.

wmam · Oct 22, 2005

Aqualung said:
Okay, I'll have to answer the bulk of this later. Doctrine & Covenants is modern day revelation given to the prophet joseph smith and is one of the LDS four standard works.

Oh....... I don't know Joseph Smith. And what does LDS stand for?

Oh and some reading for you if you like.........

2nd Tim.3:1-7
PSALMS 119:1-2
PSALMS 119:150-151
PSALMS 25:10
PSALMS 25:14
Romans 2:17-29
Romans 9:1-4
Romans 11:13-18
Exodus 16:1-4
Judges 2:1-23
Deu 31:24-30
Romans 2:27-29
Deu 10:12-16
Deu 30:6-20
Gen 39:9
Gen 26:4-5
Jam 2:14-26
Romans 2:11-15
Romans 7:1
Romans 7:14
1Tim. 1:8-10
2Pe 2:5-8

Enjoy.

wmam · Oct 22, 2005

And if that wasn't enough you could read this from a great site.........

http://nccicharlotte.com/worksbylaw.htm

tonyt1967 · Oct 22, 2005

wmam said:
Maybe what I am asking is to hard..............

Let me rephrase it into a question.............

Which day, using the Scriptures, do you think the Resurection took place and why?

What does it matter?

wmam · Oct 23, 2005

tonyt1967 said:
What does it matter?

It matters plenty to some and nothing to others but I take it that it is of substance there for search out its truth.

NoName · Oct 23, 2005

wmam said:
Oh....... I don't know Joseph Smith. And what does LDS stand for?

I hope aqualung doesn't mind me answering this for him . . . Or jumping into what seemed to be a private conversation.
LDS stands for Latter Day Saints. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a church that was supposedly started when God and Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith. He translated the Book of Mormon and also recieved revelation, like the Doctrine and Covenants.

wmam said:
Oh and some reading for you if you like.........

2nd Tim.3:1-7

This just says that people will sin. Look around you; people are doing this all over the place. It doesn't say anything like, "People will forget to follow the passover celebrations."

wmam said:
PSALMS 119:1-2

Yes, blessed are they indeed. But this begs the question, "what are his commandments?"

wmam said:
PSALMS 119:150-151

same as above

wmam said:
PSALMS 25:10

covenant and testimonies, not passover celebrations.
PSALMS 25:14

wmam said:
Romans 2:17-29

That pretty much says, "Don't be a hypocrite." "He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh." It's not the outward law that makes us children of God.

I'll leave the rest for Aqualung. I'm too tired to think right now.

wmam · Oct 23, 2005

NoName said:
I hope aqualung doesn't mind me answering this for him . . . Or jumping into what seemed to be a private conversation.
LDS stands for Latter Day Saints. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a church that was supposedly started when God and Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith. He translated the Book of Mormon and also recieved revelation, like the Doctrine and Covenants.

Oh.......... O.k......... Now I know what aqualung was talking about or at least I think that is what aqualung meant.

NoName said:
This just says that people will sin. Look around you; people are doing this all over the place. It doesn't say anything like, "People will forget to follow the passover celebrations."

I never said it said anything about Passover nor was Passover the question at hand. Passover is just part of the equation when looking into which day the death and resurection took place. Actually, Passover Feast is a Commandment of Yahweh that we all should follow as well as all his Commandments, Statutes and Ordinences. I know that their are plenty out there that disagree with that but hey........ theirs plenty out there that disagree with aqualung and you and just about everyone else that breaths air.

NoName said:
Yes, blessed are they indeed. But this begs the question, "what are his commandments?"

You have to be kidding right? There are 613 of them from the Mosaic Law but I guess maybe you are trying to discern that which was made of none effect by Yahshua. I believe that all sacrificial laws were done away with through His sacrifice of our transgressions as well as I believe that the Temple laws as well as the Priest laws are put on hold until the second coming. that I believe still leaves us with around 400 and some if I'm not mistaken. Most of which you will notice are cpoied by man with the law of the land so to speak. others you will or would probally agree with if you saw them. And yet still others are there just because it is what YAHweh commanded. Like it or not I believe that we are under both the Law and Faith. One without the other doesn't make any sense.

NoName said:
covenant and testimonies, not passover celebrations.

Passover is part of said Covenants.

NoName said:
PSALMS 25:14

Yes and I see that we are to Fear Him and to show that you would OBEY HIM.

NoName said:
That pretty much says, "Don't be a hypocrite." "He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh." It's not the outward law that makes us children of God.

I'll leave the rest for Aqualung. I'm too tired to think right now.

Ummmmmmmm ........ O.k...........
I never said that aqualung was a Jew and if you read the verse closely you would see that there was no proof given that the one or one's that he was speaking to were Jew's. He said that you (as in the one or one's he was speaking to) were called Jews.

Go get you some rest and hope you feel rested soon and can use the rest to better understand.

NoName · Oct 23, 2005

wmam said:
I never said it said anything about Passover nor was Passover the question at hand. Passover is just part of the equation when looking into which day the death and resurection took place. Actually, Passover Feast is a Commandment of Yahweh that we all should follow as well as all his Commandments, Statutes and Ordinences. I know that their are plenty out there that disagree with that but hey........ theirs plenty out there that disagree with aqualung and you and just about everyone else that breaths air.

Oh, sorry. I guess that's what you get when you just jump right into the middle or such a discussion!

wmam said:
You have to be kidding right? There are 613 of them from the Mosaic Law but I guess maybe you are trying to discern that which was made of none effect by Yahshua. I believe that all sacrificial laws were done away with through His sacrifice of our transgressions as well as I believe that the Temple laws as well as the Priest laws are put on hold until the second coming. that I believe still leaves us with around 400 and some if I'm not mistaken. Most of which you will notice are cpoied by man with the law of the land so to speak. others you will or would probally agree with if you saw them. And yet still others are there just because it is what YAHweh commanded. Like it or not I believe that we are under both the Law and Faith. One without the other doesn't make any sense.

So there's exactly 613 laws we have to follow? No more, no less?

Yes, I will definitely get me some rest. If I only had the gumption to actually go to bed!

wmam · Oct 23, 2005

NoName said:
Oh, sorry. I guess that's what you get when you just jump right into the middle or such a discussion!

Not a Prob.

NoName said:
So there's exactly 613 laws we have to follow? No more, no less?

Well that is what I have always heard and if you go here..........
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
You will see them. But as I said if you take out the ones that were null and void by YAHshua and His sacrifice then it will be some where around 400 or so. There probally is some debate on the number as there is so much debate on everything else in this old world but I think that the most widely accepted number is 613.

NoName said:
Yes, I will definitely get me some rest. If I only had the gumption to actually go to bed!

GO TO BED!!!!!!!!!!!:tsk:

Aqualung · Oct 24, 2005

I don't know where we are anymore!

I always get thrown off when we start debating about 30 differnent points at once. Can we narrow things down, or am I just being stupid?

wmam · Oct 24, 2005

Aqualung said:
I don't know where we are anymore! I always get thrown off when we start debating about 30 differnent points at once. Can we narrow things down, or am I just being stupid?

This all started with just one question as to what day everyone thought that the death and resurection was on and like most thing to answer something only brings with it a multitude of other questions.

I personaly believe that YAHshua did not have Passover Feast but instead the Last Supper was just that a supper. I believe that He gave up the Ghost on or about 3:00p.m. on what we call a Wednesday afternoon. This would have been the Passover preperation of the 14th day and would be at the time when the lambs were killed for the Feast. The 15th would be a High Holy Day being that it is the First Day of Unleavened Bread which makes it a High Holy Shabbat. No work that day so that is why they had to get him in the tomb before sunset which would mark the begining of the next day. I believe that no one was watching the tomb for the first day and it wasn't until the second day that the sanhedrin asked that there be a guard put on the tomb. This would have been done the Second Day of Unleavened Bread where it isn't a High Holy Shabbat and you could move around as normal and could work. Now the next day would be the weekly Shabbat. Again no work and restricted movement. This I believe is the third day and at or about 3:00p.m. YAHshua arose. It wasn't until the next morning of the first day of the week after the weekly Shabbat that Mary Magdelon came to find the tomb already empty as the Angel showed Her.

From this debate we side tracked into an array of other topics and was last at the question of whether you needed Faith, Works of Law or both to be justified. You said only Faith if I remember correctly and I say both..............

You are far from stupid........

We are only here to learn from one another but then there is that line that we both know where our own boundries are with-in each of our Faiths and beliefs. We may have reached that point but I'm willing to go further if you agree.

Aqualung · Oct 24, 2005

Sure, I'll go further. But you have to tell me in which direction.

wmam · Oct 24, 2005

O.k. .............. A little off the beaten path here but what is your views on the Disciples as far as if they were the first "Christians" as named by outsiders or were they "Nazerites" as they were known by those around them and following what they had been ever since YAHshua taught them so.

Aqualung · Oct 30, 2005

wmam said:
O.k. .............. A little off the beaten path here but what is your views on the Disciples as far as if they were the first "Christians" as named by outsiders or were they "Nazerites" as they were known by those around them and following what they had been ever since YAHshua taught them so.

Sorry it took so long. I sort of forgot about this thread

. I would say the desciples were christians, but not the first. All prophets since Adam have known of christ, have spoken of christ, and have followed christ.

wmam · Oct 30, 2005

Aqualung said:
Sorry it took so long. I sort of forgot about this thread . I would say the desciples were christians, but not the first. All prophets since Adam have known of christ, have spoken of christ, and have followed christ.

So when the Disciples greeted each other and or spoke of one another as to their belief to others the name Christians was used?

Which day?

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