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Christian: Father, Son and "Ignored One"

Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Same Faith Debates - Christians only, please. ;)

I'm interested in exploring other Christians' concepts of who the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) is. Specifically, how is He related to God the Father? Is there anything about the Holy Ghost that you see as unique -- any qualities or characteristics you can think of that would distinguish Him from God the Father? It seems to me that we frequently speak of the Father and the Son, but seldom of the Holy Ghost.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I was slightly surprized and a bit ashamed to say that I had really no answer to your question, but I did find this:- http://www.carm.org/doctrine/holyspirit.htm

The Holy Spirit​

The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is fully God. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, has a will, and can speak. He is alive. He is a person. He is not particularly visible in the Bible because His ministry is to bear witness of Jesus (John 5:26).
Some cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses say that the Holy Spirit is nothing more than a force (Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 406-407). This is false. If the Holy Spirit were merely a force, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11).
The truth is that the Holy Spirit is a person the same as the Father and the Son are within the Trinity.


http://www.carm.org/kjv/Romans/rom_8.htm#Bu


The Works of the Holy Spirit




Access to God - Eph. 2:18Inspires prayer - Eph. 6:18; Jude 20Anoints for Service - Luke 4:18Intercedes -Rom. 8:26Assures - Rom. 8:15-16; Gal. 4:6Interprets Scripture - 1 Cor. 2:1,14;
Eph. 1:17Authors Scripture - 2 Pet. 1:20-21Leads - Rom. 8:14Baptizes - John 1:232-34; 1 Cor. 12:13-14Liberates - Rom. 8:2Believers Born of - John 3:3-6Molds Character - Gal. 5:22-23Calls and Commissions - Acts 13:24; 20:28Produces fruit - Gal. 5:22-23Cleanses - 2 Thess. 3:13; 1 Pet. 1:2Empowers Believers - Luke 24:49Convicts of sin - John 16:9,14Raises from the dead - Rom. 8:11Creates - Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4Regenerates - Titus 3:5Empowers - 1 Thess. 1:5Sanctifies - Rom. 15:16Fills - Acts 2:4; 4:29-31; 5:18-20Seals - Eph. 1:1314; 4:30Gives gifts - 1 Cor. 12:8-11Strengthens - Eph. 3:16; Acts 1:8; 2:4;
1 Cor. 2:4Glorifies Christ - John 16:14Teaches - John 14:26Guides in truth - John 16:13Testifies of Jesus - John 15:26Helps our weakness - Rom. 8:26Victory over flesh - Rom. 8:2-4; Gal. 4:6Indwells believers - Rom. 8:9-14; Gal. 4:6Worship helper - Phil. 3:3



I hope that helps......;)
 
J

jonny

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info Michael. Although I hate seeing churches called cults it's still good stuff.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
jonny said:
Thanks for the info Michael. Although I hate seeing churches called cults it's still good stuff.
Click to expand...
Oh heck I didn't see the word 'cult'...................not my evening.........:(
 
Mike182

Mike182

Flaming Queer
i haven't really thought about this much at all

i guess that if i prey to jesus, i am also praying to God and the holy spirit, so in that respect it doesn't matter too much, but again, i really have not thought about this before
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
corrupt_priest said:
i haven't really thought about this much at all

i guess that if i prey to jesus, i am also praying to God and the holy spirit, so in that respect it doesn't matter too much, but again, i really have not thought about this before
Click to expand...
It's never too late to start! If you are praying to the Holy Ghost, don't you think it odd that you've never really thought about who or what He is?

Obviously, the Holy Ghost must serve some sort of purpose. God the Father is described as "the Highest." And Jesus Christ, "the Word," was sent to earth to atone for our sins. But why a third part (member, person, etc.) of the Godhead/Trinity?
 
EnhancedSpirit

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Katzpur said:
It's never too late to start! Obviously, the Holy Ghost must serve some sort of purpose. God the Father is described as "the Highest." And Jesus Christ, "the Word," was sent to earth to atone for our sins. But why a third part (member, person, etc.) of the Godhead/Trinity?
Click to expand...
I guess I will just keep saying it. The trinity is Father, Mother, Child. And this is not limited to Christianity. The Christians call her Holy Spirit. The Hindu call her Shiva (Brahma, Vishnu), the Kahunas of Hawaii calls the Trinity Ku, Kane and Kanola! The Native Americans call it Great Spirit, Father Sky, and Mother Earth.

God is a Triune being, just as we on Earth are a triune being! We are superconscious, conscious and subconscious minds! We are a trinity as well! We are also a trinity in the sense of Mind, Body and Spirit! Just as God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are separate aspects of God and work as one consciousness, we have three separate aspects of consciousness, and our three minds need to work as one integrated mind!

The female aspect is where we find grace and compassion. And by denying the Divine Feminine, you are denying part of God.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=139

An extract from the above site:-

All of these statements point to the role of the gift of holy spirit in continuing the work that Jesus started, and even empowering his followers for greater works. This spirit is not independent and self-existent, but is “the mind of Christ” within the believer, influencing, guiding, teaching, reminding and pointing the believer to follow his Lord and Savior. This spirit is certainly not “co-equal” when by its very design it serves the risen Lord and Christ. Yet because it carries the personal presence of Christ into the life of every believer, the use of Personification is highly appropriate. As a practical matter, holy spirit in us will not lead us anywhere that the Lord himself would not lead us if he were personally present. We can study Christ’s life and his priorities in the written Word to verify whether the “spirit” leading us in is fact the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ or whether it is “another spirit.” For instance, he whose basic commitment was “it is written” will not be leading his followers away from relying on Scripture as the only rule of faith and practice.
Click to expand...
I guess that sounds 'right'; it makes sense.........:)
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
EnhancedSpirit said:
I guess I will just keep saying it. The trinity is Father, Mother, Child. And this is not limited to Christianity. The Christians call her Holy Spirit. The Hindu call her Shiva (Brahma, Vishnu), the Kahunas of Hawaii calls the Trinity Ku, Kane and Kanola! The Native Americans call it Great Spirit, Father Sky, and Mother Earth.

God is a Triune being, just as we on Earth are a triune being! We are superconscious, conscious and subconscious minds! We are a trinity as well! We are also a trinity in the sense of Mind, Body and Spirit! Just as God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are separate aspects of God and work as one consciousness, we have three separate aspects of consciousness, and our three minds need to work as one integrated mind!

The female aspect is where we find grace and compassion. And by denying the Divine Feminine, you are denying part of God.
Click to expand...
Spirit,

Since this is a Christians-only thread, it really doesn't matter what the Hindus or Kahunas or Native Americans call the Holy Spirit. You've restated your position that God is a triune being, but you haven't really explained what makes the Holy Ghost distinct from the Father or in any way unique. I've never known a Christian who believed as you do, so you're going to have to help me along here. I just don't see your point at all, and it doesn't seem to have any bearing on the topic I started.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
michel said:
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=139

An extract from the above site:-


I guess that sounds 'right'; it makes sense.........:)
Click to expand...
I guess it does -- sort of. But I'd really rather hear your own thoughts on the subject. This statement seems to me to be describing what most Christians think of "God" in general. I'm looking for people's thoughts on what it is about the Holy Ghost that makes Him neither the Father nor the Son, but someone equally significant, someone with a unique role within the Godhead (or Trinity, if you'd prefer). Maybe I'm just not making myself clear.
 
Mike182

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Katzpur said:
It's never too late to start! If you are praying to the Holy Ghost, don't you think it odd that you've never really thought about who or what He is?

Obviously, the Holy Ghost must serve some sort of purpose. God the Father is described as "the Highest." And Jesus Christ, "the Word," was sent to earth to atone for our sins. But why a third part (member, person, etc.) of the Godhead/Trinity?
Click to expand...
hmmmm, although it pains me to say such words, i really don't know :D

i think its time for a bit of random bible reading, see if i can't dig anything up
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Katzpur said:
I guess it does -- sort of. But I'd really rather hear your own thoughts on the subject. This statement seems to me to be describing what most Christians think of "God" in general. I'm looking for people's thoughts on what it is about the Holy Ghost that makes Him neither the Father nor the Son, but someone equally significant, someone with a unique role within the Godhead (or Trinity, if you'd prefer). Maybe I'm just not making myself clear.
Click to expand...

Wow, you don't make it easier, do you ?:D I see ( from a purely personal view), the Trinity as being made up of the three facets of God; God the father (in spirit form), God the son (jesus) who was incarnate on Earth, and The Holy ghost, which is that part of God that is universally given to all who believe in God ( almost like a religious conscience).

I know this sounds muddled - but I can't do better than that.:)
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
michel said:
Wow, you don't make it easier, do you ?:D
Click to expand...
I certainly try not to!

I see ( from a purely personal view), the Trinity as being made up of the three facets of God; God the father (in spirit form), God the son (jesus) who was incarnate on Earth, and The Holy ghost, which is that part of God that is universally given to all who believe in God ( almost like a religious conscience).

I know this sounds muddled - but I can't do better than that.:)
Click to expand...
Okay. I can agree with you in what you said about the Holy Ghost, at least as far as you went with it. Don't let me pressure you to take it any further.

But to anyone else who wants to contribute: It sounds as if the Holy Ghost is a spirit; I'd go along with that. If God (i.e. the Father) is also a spirit, is there really any need for the Holy Ghost?
 
Mike182

Mike182

Flaming Queer
god created the heavens and the earth (he is one)

i think God resides in Heaven, and his spirit resides on Earth (he is two)

he then sent his annointed son jesus to bear witness (he is now three)



btw, this is guess work, i have no scripture as of yet to back it up :eek:

C_P
 
Mike182

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Aqualung said:
Katzpur stole my question, but I'll say it anyway. Why would there be two holy spirits?
Click to expand...
i don't know, but i can argue with it anyway

you are tying to apply the logical mind process of a human being to an ultimate being, i'm sure their is a reason, even if it is unknown to us at this point!
 
Aqualung

Aqualung

Tasty
But I think God does such a wonderful of saying that he isn't a spirit. though that's not really for this thread.
 
EnhancedSpirit

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Katzpur said:
Spirit,

Since this is a Christians-only thread, it really doesn't matter what the Hindus or Kahunas or Native Americans call the Holy Spirit. You've restated your position that God is a triune being, but you haven't really explained what makes the Holy Ghost distinct from the Father or in any way unique. I've never known a Christian who believed as you do, so you're going to have to help me along here. I just don't see your point at all, and it doesn't seem to have any bearing on the topic I started.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to clear up the confusion. You say you do not understand what the role of the Holy Spirit is. The role of the holy spirit is much like the role of a mother. It is the part of God that is compassionate, the part of god who forgives, the part of God who teaches, The part of God who communicates with the heart of man. God, the Father, is the creative force of God, the provider, the disciplinarian (based on spiritual laws) and there is the son, which is that which comes out of the mother and the father (the two shall become one).

I am a Christian who has expanded my vision to the point that I see God's truth lies within all religions. I know that this is a Christian only thread, I just think the Christians might be able to better understand the Trinity if they saw it through the eyes of others as well. Many Christians believe that the Trinity is strictly a Christian belief, and it is not. It is one of God's truths, and the same truth can be found in everything around us, including other religions.

God is all three in one (but there is not a physical body, so you can't get hung up on that image). God made us in his image, but God could not fit all in one human form, the male/female part are split into men and women, and when the two become one, the third 'part' of God can finally become flesh. All three together is God, God is Love. The love between a woman and a man the love between parent and child, all this together is God.

The point was the 'ignored one', you are right. We as Christians have been ignoring the Holy Spirit, and we should pay more attention to our feminine side, and learn to live our lives with compassion for others, and allowing the Holy Spirit to flow through us. It is said that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is against the Holy Spirit. It is because the Holy Spirit is the thread of God that is connected to the spirit within each of us, and if we ignore that, it's like cutting the phone cord.
 
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