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Christians: the doctrines of Mary
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
- Start date
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
yes thats true, Christ called all of his apostles brothers too.
But the context of the verses really is what identifies the type of relationship being spoken of.
EG. "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers [a‧del‧phos′] James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?-Matt 13:55
If the account involved a nephew or cousin, a‧del‧phos′ is not used. EG. “Mark the cousin [a‧ne‧psi‧os′] of Barnabas.” Col 4:10
There is also evidence from the gospels that the writers were not under the imporession she was always a virgin. Luke specifies that Jesus was Mary’s “firstborn” (Lu 2:7), and Matthew says that Joseph “had no intercourse with her until she gave birth to a son,” at Matt 1:25
So really, there is no evidence from the scriptures to suggest any different.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
My oldest daughter will always be my firstborn. If I had no other children, she would still always be my firstborn.
As for the word "until" as used in the passage in Matthew, if you do a word study on that word (I have done this) you will find that it's used just as often in the New Testament in passages that do not imply any sort of change in direction or actions AFTER the action being described.
As for the word "until" as used in the passage in Matthew, if you do a word study on that word (I have done this) you will find that it's used just as often in the New Testament in passages that do not imply any sort of change in direction or actions AFTER the action being described.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I just wish someone would tell me THE POINT of Mary staying a virgin her whole life. There's absolutley nothing of consequence that hinges upon her, a married woman, staying celebate. You could make an arguement that a more pious image for her is the only thing at stake, an image which portays her so determined to practice the spiritual disciplines that she fasted her entire life from sex to draw closer to God.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Why do you need an excuse? Why do you think we need to make a point that goes with your approving?
Apostolic Fathers and early Church Fathers believed in the virginity of the Blessed Virgin.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Yes there are, and they have been explained and mentioned throughout this thread.
Id also like to point out, Christianity was never from the beggining a sola scriptura religion. And the fact the Apostolic Fathers (disciples of the Apostles) believed and wrote about Mary's significance, and the Early Church Fathers wrote more about it, shows the practice did not come out of no where and is an ancient belief.
Even the protestant reformers believed in Mary and her ever viginity
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Go back to the last page and look at my posts. There are a few of them I made with many quotes from Apostolic Fathers and Early Church Fathers.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Martin Luther: "a simple layman armed with Scripture is greater than the mightiest pope without it"
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
Jungle and did you know that Martin Luther also affirmed the blessed status of Mary, including that of perpetual virgin?
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
Personally I don't know if Mary remained a virgin her whole life or not, but to me, it wouldn't make her any less blessed. I have a very unique view of Mary and I believe she deserves great veneration and honor from all. Veneration equal with or greater then that of Jesus.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
For one, Martin Luther was neither Apostolic Father (disciple of apostle) nor Early Church Father.
But what is funny, is that Martin Luther also said;
Lutheran Marian theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I also take it that you never really looked into Martin Luther. He did say in the Book of Concord;
The Epitome of the Formula of Concord - Book of Concord
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
You misunderstand my intentions. I 'm simply trying to communicate that she shouldnt be worshipped/trusted in any way. She was and is a great woman but even she would tell you that apart from God she's nothing and that all our trust should be in him. Mary serves as an exemplary role model. One who modeled selfless obedience to the Lord. And I can assure you she was not sinless in spite of what some Catholics like to claim as it would directly contradict Romans 3:23. It wouldn't be a stretch to call the claim that there are people other than Jesus to have lived without sin to be downright heretical.
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
I disagree that we shouldn't venerate her. Not only is she the mother of God, but that also makes her divine itself. Even the Catholics will say I'm going into heresy here, but I agree with the early Gnostics that if Jesus was "God the Son" then Mary was the embodiment of the Holy Spirit, which I believe to be female, the goddess, the Sophia, Lady Wisdom.
To use Pagan terminology- Jesus is the god, Mary is the goddess
To use Pagan terminology- Jesus is the god, Mary is the goddess
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
1) Catholic Mariology never states that Mary is independent of the Lord.
2) Ill trust Mary and the Saints before I trust you.
3) I will trust what the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers said, before I listion to how assure you are that she was completely sinful. On the contrary, "Hail Mary full of Grace" Said by the archangel Gabriel, would say different as well.
4) We do not believe she was divine, so how are we relating her to Jesus?
Again you are back to just saying what you personally interpretate the bible to say. While I have brought proof of this ancient belief and interpretation that far out weighs the modern protestant belief in age.
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
Hail full of Grace, the Lord is WITH YOU, blessed art thou among women!- Gabriel
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb- St. Elizabeth
The Hail Mary in scripture
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb- St. Elizabeth
The Hail Mary in scripture
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
I would disagree.
I can understand the making of Mary's womb into a temple by the Word incarnate;for God himself dwelt inside. But that would only sanctify her, not make herself divine. She was born to two parents, conceived in the normal way,[though immaculate] but she was still fully human. There was no divine in her nature; unlike Jesus.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Dont forget the Canticle of Mary, also found in scripture.
My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord,
My Spirit rejoices in God my Saviour
For He has looked with favour on His lowly servant.
From this day all generations will call me blessed:
The Almighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His Name.
Just to make a note to all of thous who degrade Mary. Why when she prophecied that she would be called "Blessed", do you still just call her "Mary" and degrade her? Though you claim to use the whole bible. 0.o
My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord,
My Spirit rejoices in God my Saviour
For He has looked with favour on His lowly servant.
From this day all generations will call me blessed:
The Almighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His Name.
Just to make a note to all of thous who degrade Mary. Why when she prophecied that she would be called "Blessed", do you still just call her "Mary" and degrade her? Though you claim to use the whole bible. 0.o
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
She is not worshiped though. I can not believe protestants still fail to stop speaking lies.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
1) Catholic Mariology never states that Mary is independent of the Lord.
2) Ill trust Mary and the Saints before I trust you.
3) I will trust what the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers said, before I listion to how assure you are that she was completely sinful. On the contrary, "Hail Mary full of Grace" Said by the archangel Gabriel, would say different as well.
4) We do not believe she was divine, so how are we relating her to Jesus?
Again you are back to just saying what you personally interpretate the bible to say. While I have brought proof of this ancient belief and interpretation that far out weighs the modern protestant belief in age.
2. I'm the last person I want people to trust. Why? Because I'm human.
3. All Christians are full of grace or have the opportunity to be filled with grace, the last thing it means is that any of us are perfect. The Apostolic Fathers and Early Church Fathers are not above God's word nor are they anything at all without it.