The Pointlessness of Prayer ?

Michael,

I guess I would agree with you if I thought that God had every moment of our existence mapped out for us. I believe He not only hears but answers prayers. Yes, He knows what is best for us, but I think that there are times when He rewards our faith in Him by granting us the desires of our hearts. I believe that He knows each one of us personally, by name, and cares about our concerns. I see prayer as a two-way communication between Him and me, and I don't see Him as particularly concerned about having the last word. I know He answers prayers. I am 100% convinced of it.

michel said:

http://www.geocities.com/evoatheism/main.htmlI made that point to show that God cannot change his mind. The relevance to the argument is that God cannot be convinced to make a different choice.

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Hmmm. Seems to me you're putting God in a box... a box where you think everything that is ever going to happen ever has been completely predetermined and set in stone.

I guess I see Him a bit differently... yeah, He already knows what's gonna happen, what we're gonna pray for, what we need or want, but it doesn't happen until it happens. Even though He already takes care of us and gives us what we need, He DID tell us to pray.
Philippians 4:6-7 ~ 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
7 And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

What this verse says to me is to not worry about anything (just trust Him and know that He is in control), give thanks for everything, and ask for what we want. I am obviously falling far, far short in this because the peace of God which passes all understanding has not been granted to me

Prayer is never pointless. It allows the focusing of thoughts on something specific such as a person or event. Just because a prayer is not answered as we want, such as the death of the cancer victim in the illustration, doesnt mean it was without reason. God can answer NO. It seems we have forgotten that fact. That no is often with reasons we can only see in hindsight. Perhaps the death of the boy in the illustration would draw the family closer together than they ever were before. Perhaps, the boy's legacy would drive a cure to eliminate the cancer. We cannot know at the time.

The manner of asking also dictates if God will answer yes or no. (James 1:5-7, James 4:2-4)

Basically, we are to pray in confidence that God will hear us and answer us in our best interests. As children, we didnt like every answer our parents gave to our requests. Same principles here. We are also to ask without selfish motives. While its fine to pray for oneself, if it is all we pray for we are in error. Much like we would start saying no to a spoiled child to teach them, God says no to us.

God is not a vending machine

islamic prayer is also a form of yoga, so doing those prayers is physically good for the body as well as spiritually for the mind.
prayers can have a positive effect on others if the one doing the praying has a pure intent. it is like the power of positive thought. not only can our thoughts effect our selves, they can effect other beings around us and those who we think of.

michel said:

Which is exactly the point of not sweeping the dust under the carpet; better to face and deal with the dirt.

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At some point dirt and pearls are of little distinction. I pray you get my point..:shout

~Victor

Victor said:

At some point dirt and pearls are of little distinction. I pray you get my point..:shout

~Victor

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I'm sorry Victor; I don't.

I don't find prayer pointless at all; but then prayer in Buddhism is not "to" something or someone else. It is "from" my practice; I dedicate the merit I have generated to that which I choose to pray about. It can be something from my own life, or within my family; it can be to some other individual, or it can be more generally directed, as to hurricane, earthquake or tsunami victims.

Since Buddhists also believe that all things are interconnected, positive thoughts or "transferrance of merit" can have beneficial effects; they certainly do in my own life.

Have you seen some of the studies on prayer and healing, and the results of different styles (open-ended vs. outcome-directed) on health issues? Have you also seen the studies of what happens to freezing water crystals when differing types of thoughts are directed at them during the freezing process? I will try to find the links.

First of all; I obviously need to say that what I posted is not what I believe. I merely picked the article from where I found it, and realized that there was an element of what I have thought, at sometime or other.


I have no doubts that God has plans for us. We may have free will, but only within the confines of the possible actions we can take in respect of the situations we are in. To some extent, therefore, we are being 'led' ever so subtely, down a particular path.

Say That I pray, tonight, for the cessation of the Iraqui problems; that tomorrow morning, all Iraquis wake up, with one intention - of all helping each other rebuild the Country that has suffered so much these last years.

What if God's plan needs to have Iraq in a state of flux and danger for, say, the next five years ? What happens to my well intentioned prayer ?

I do believe in the power of prayer - and more so if is is a 'combined prayer' - one in which many, from all over the world join in. The world prays for peace in Iraq. But God needs Iraq to be as it is now, because part of this entails the spiritual growth of many, over the next few years; what we are asking for, at that time, becomes something that is against God's will.

How do we know ?

I do believe in the power of prayer - and more so if is is a 'combined prayer' - one in which many, from all over the world join in. The world prays for peace in Iraq. But God needs Iraq to be as it is now, because part of this entails the spiritual growth of many, over the next few years; what we are asking for, at that time, becomes something that is against God's will.

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But that just makes life seem like one big popularity contest. Forgive me for over-simplifying, but my former pastor (whom I otherwise respected in the utmost for his intelligence) gave a sermon about the power of prayer. He gave anecdotal evidence, not all of which I remember now, but one story he told was of himself. He told the congregation that he had been sick in the hospital, and that he "did not start feeling any better until their prayer circle started." It was along those lines that he tried to prove to us the power of prayer.

Give me a break! If I'm sick in the hospital, and no one's praying for me, does that mean that someone who gets lots of prayers for him is going to get better faster? Why would God play favorites like that? (Maybe that's a bad example - instead of me, think of two equally spiritual people, one of whom has less friends, or something.) It seems inherently unfair and ungodly.