The Qur'an Teaches Jesus Died (possibly on the Cross)

Koldaramor said:

(An-Nisáa), the verse is clear. Jesus did not die on the cross. The Jews believed that Jesus died on the cross.


Surat An-Nisa' [4:157] - The Holy Qur'an - ?????? ??????

Sahih International
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.​

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Yes, that simply serves to highlight the contradictions inherent with the book. However, put that to one side for a moment and look at the ‘Arabi of the verse straight after it (4:158):

بَلْ رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا

I have coloured the relevant word (but doing so seemed to change the order of the words in my post. I hope it reads correctly when I submit my post).

At any rate, in red you should have in front of you the third person masculine singular perfect verb which states that ‘he was raised’. It comes from the root word ر ف ع and means to raise or elevate (as well as similar meanings). In 5:117, had the words read that allah raised Jesus, it would have used words derived from this triliteral root, and not from one meaning ‘to cause to die’.

i got this from a Yusuf Ali translation commentary regarding 4:157

"There is difference of opinion as to the exact interpretation of this verse. The words are: The Jews did not kill Jesus, but God raised him up (rafa'ahu) to Himself. One school holds that Jesus did not die the usual human death, but still lives in the body in heaven, which is the generally accepted Muslim view. Another holds that he did die (5:117) but not when he was supposed to be crucified, and that his being "raised up" unto God means that instead of being disgraced as a malefactor, as the Jews intended, he was on the contrary honoured by God as His Messenger: (see 4:159). The same word rafa'a is used in association with honour in connection with al Mustafa in 94:4. (R)"

I sincerely doubt that John is the same as the author of the Gospel of John (who was most probably not John the disciple of Jesus).

"More recent methods of scholarship, such as textual criticism, have been influential in suggesting that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist and John of Patmos were three separate individuals. Differences in style, theological content, and familiarity with Greek between the Gospel of John, the epistles of John, and the Revelation are seen by some scholars as indicating three separate author.", Book of Revelation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Also from wikipedia:

The First Epistle of John is traditionally held to have been composed by John the Apostle (the author of the Gospel of John) when the writer was in advanced age. The epistle's content, language and conceptual style indicate that it may have had the same author as the Gospel of John, 2 John, and 3 John.[53] Eusebius claimed that the author of 2nd and 3rd John were not John the Apostle an "elder John" which refers either to the apostle at an advanced age or a hypothetical second individual ("John the Elder").[54] Scholars today are divided on the issue.

The author of the Book of Revelation identifies himself several times as "John".[56] The author also states that he was on Patmos when he received his first vision.[57] As a result, the author of Revelation is sometimes referred to as John of Patmos. The author, named John, has traditionally been identified with John the Apostle, to whom the Gospel of John is also attributed. The traditional view holds that John the Apostle—considered to have written the Gospel and the epistles of John—was exiled to the island of Patmos during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian, and there wrote Revelation. Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 AD) who was acquainted with Polycarp, who had been mentored by John, makes a possible allusion to this book, and credits John as the source.[58] Irenaeus (c. 115-202) assumes it as a conceded point.

javajo said:

Also from wikipedia:

The First Epistle of John is traditionally held to have been composed by John the Apostle (the author of the Gospel of John) when the writer was in advanced age. The epistle's content, language and conceptual style indicate that it may have had the same author as the Gospel of John, 2 John, and 3 John.[53] Eusebius claimed that the author of 2nd and 3rd John were not John the Apostle an "elder John" which refers either to the apostle at an advanced age or a hypothetical second individual ("John the Elder").[54] Scholars today are divided on the issue.

The author of the Book of Revelation identifies himself several times as "John".[56] The author also states that he was on Patmos when he received his first vision.[57] As a result, the author of Revelation is sometimes referred to as John of Patmos. The author, named John, has traditionally been identified with John the Apostle, to whom the Gospel of John is also attributed. The traditional view holds that John the Apostle—considered to have written the Gospel and the epistles of John—was exiled to the island of Patmos during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian, and there wrote Revelation. Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 AD) who was acquainted with Polycarp, who had been mentored by John, makes a possible allusion to this book, and credits John as the source.[58] Irenaeus (c. 115-202) assumes it as a conceded point.

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I agree with Gaius (and the "Alogians") that the author of Revelation and Book of John was Cerinthus. Justin Martyr never actually refers to John as "John". I am not surprised this Wikipedia article states this, it was probably written by a pro-Christian author, they often say John is called John by Justin as if no one can look it up.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01282.htm

I can only wonder if the reason the link section doesn't actually post to the supposed quote where Justin refers to the Book of John as by John has to do with this.

Shermana said:

I agree with Gaius (and the "Alogians") that the author of Revelation and Book of John was Cerinthus. Justin Martyr never actually refers to John as "John". I am not surprised this Wikipedia article states this, it was probably written by a pro-Christian author, they often say John is called John by Justin as if no one can look it up.

CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 10-30 (Justin Martyr)

I can only wonder if the reason the link section doesn't actually post to the supposed quote where Justin refers to the Book of John as by John has to do with this.

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I guess I'll just stick with John. We are getting way off topic. I do believe that the Gospel of John, 1, 2, and 3 John, and Revelation were inspired by the Holy Spirit and God's Word. That's just my belief. John says Jesus died on a cross and rose again.

Kodanshi said:

At any rate, in red you should have in front of you the third person masculine singular perfect verb which states that ‘he was raised’. It comes from the root word ر ف ع and means to raise or elevate (as well as similar meanings).

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Doesn't that say "But Allah raised him unto Himself(?)?" Just taking small issue with the "to be". Then again, Arabic doesn't have "to be".

But honestly, from what I can tell, you're taking issue with the Arabic language. If you like, I could ask someone proficient in Arabic grammar for you, but the use of that word doesn't seem to have been an issue for others.

Hey guys - Just thought I'd add that there is an entire book written on this subject by a very knowledgeable and fair author. It is called The Crucifixion and the Qur'an: A Study in the History of Muslim Thought by Todd Lawson.

Here is a link to it on Amazon if anyone is interested: Amazon.com: The Crucifixion and the Qur'an: A Study in the History of Muslim Thought (9781851686353): Todd Lawson: Books

hey - According to Muslim belief, Jesus is a prophet. Judas was crucified, while Jesus was taken by angels to heaven.
*edit*

"And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain."

(4:157)

Could this verse not mean that His body was crucified while His soul was not?

when it says, "they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them" - if someone is looking life and death in terms of bodily life and death, then wouldn't it appear that He had been crucified to them? Whereas if you look at life and death terms of the true life and death - life and death of the spirit - then wouldn't it be so that, "they slew him not for certain." ?

If Jesus fled martyrdom like that, what kind of a Prophet would He be?

For a discussion about the alleged crucifixion of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him), watch Ahmad Deedat videos:

[youtube]W8vwJPaSf8k[/youtube]
‪Deedat Ahmad Jesus Crucifixion Fact or Fiction p1‬‏ - YouTube

1. Matthew 27:35
   And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
   Matthew 27:38
   Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
   Matthew 27:44
   The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
   Matthew 28:5
   And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
   Mark 15:15
   And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.
   Mark 15:24
   And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
   Mark 15:25
   And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
   Mark 15:32
   Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
   Mark 16:6
   And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
   Luke 23:23
   And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
   Luke 23:33
   And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
   Luke 24:7
   Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
   Luke 24:20
   And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
   John 19:16
   Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
   John 19:18
   Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
   John 19:20
   This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
   John 19:23
   Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
   John 19:32
   Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
   John 19:41
   Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
   Acts 2:23
   Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
   Acts 2:36
   Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
   Acts 4:10
   Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
   1 Corinthians 1:23
   But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
   1 Corinthians 2:2
   For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
   1 Corinthians 2:8
   Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
   2 Corinthians 13:4
   For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
   Galatians 3:1
   O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
   Galatians 6:14
   But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world iscrucified unto me, and I unto the world.
   Revelation 11:8
   And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

I believe the accounts say that Jesus was crucified. Its kinda the heart of the Christian faith.

iloveislam said:

For a discussion about the alleged crucifixion of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him), watch Ahmad Deedat videos:

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It would be better if you paraphrased the videos for us.

I can pretty much guarantee the vast majority of people here do not want to--and will not--watch two videos, of almost 10 and 8 minutes respectively, for something that could be summed up in a paragraph or two.

javajo said:

I believe the accounts say that Jesus was crucified. Its kinda the heart of the Christian faith.

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I am playing Devil's Advocate here, but what do you--and others (both Muslims and Christians)--think of "the swoon hypothesis" (aka swoon theory)?

there's a misundertood....!!!
yeah the qu'ran says that jesus died in the verse 5.117 but when ?
this conversation will be on the day of judgement...which means that Jesus will die after he came back to the earth...so it doesnt mean that Jesus is already die...so dont play with words...

Jalal, I'm not sure what you mean exactly... Could you clairify?

GregNewing said:

Jalal, I'm not sure what you mean exactly... Could you clairify?

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Jalal basically says that the words Jesus speaks to allah in 5:117 refer to Judgment Day/the afterlife. This is correct according to the context of the qur’an. However, it does not state exactly WHEN Jesus died, so presumably he could come back to earth (as muslim speculation states he will do, to battle the Dajjal), and die after that — and not at the time of the crucifixion.

Ah, my apologies - I see now - I misread and thought that he was referring to a different verse (4:157).

@iloveislam

Regarding the verse that you quoted and underlined - this is the same verse, but just a different translation. The meaning is still the same whether one translates it as, "For surely; they killed him not" or "they slew him not for certain.".

And you are right - but so are the Christians who believe in the crucifixion.

If the ressurection of Christ is told in Christian Scripture, then there is no disagreement between the Qur'an and the Gospel. If both the body and spirit of Christ had been totally annihilated then, of course, He could not come back - but this is not the case.

Just because His body was destroyed, does that really mean that His soul could not live on?

The martyrdom of Christ is a really important aspect of the Christian Faith, let alone the Faith of God as a whole. He was an incredible example to all humankind in showing that the true life was the life of the spirit and not of the body - He gave His own life to uphold these teachings and to save humankind. In doing so, He testified to the truth that the spirit is immortal. How can such an amazing example and truth be ignored? The Qur'an does not deny this by any means. In fact, this verse (4:157) speaks the clear truth of the situation and highlights the beauty of such a momentous event in the spiritual history of humankind.