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Genesis 8

Aqualung

Tasty
Here's the only part I can think we would debate, and this is part of what JerryL was talking bout in the Gen 7 thread

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offereings on the altar.
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I eill not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
If there's naything else people want to talk about, feel free to introduce that, too.

Umm. actually, I can't think of what subjects to bring up. :bonk: If anybody can think of anything, post it!
 

may

Well-Known Member
Aqualung said:
Here's the only part I can think we would debate, and this is part of what JerryL was talking bout in the Gen 7 thread

If there's naything else people want to talk about, feel free to introduce that, too.

Umm. actually, I can't think of what subjects to bring up. :bonk: If anybody can think of anything, post it!
























(Hebrews 11:7) By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this [faith] he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith..... so noah had faith that Jehovah would preserve them alive if he listened to the instructions that God gave him and it came truethey were saved
And Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so..genesis 6;22






For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be.....matthew 24;37 we are now in the time when we can see with our eye of understanding that Jesus is now a reigning king in heaven, so we are in a time when we have to listen to instructions just like noah did ,and then we can be saved when the great tribulation breaks out



 
Aqualung said:
Here's the only part I can think we would debate, and this is part of what JerryL was talking bout in the Gen 7 thread

If there's naything else people want to talk about, feel free to introduce that, too.

Umm. actually, I can't think of what subjects to bring up. :bonk: If anybody can think of anything, post it!
Why believe in something so strongly that you haven't even seen, touched, or heard? Why would you dedicate you whole life to make something happy, that you don't know exists beyond a reasonable doubt?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Only_Gay_Christian_Midget said:
Why believe in something so strongly that you haven't even seen, touched, or heard? Why would you dedicate you whole life to make something happy, that you don't know exists beyond a reasonable doubt?
At the risk of laying myself open to abuse from non-theists, have you ever seen your child born ? - have you gone out, on a beautiful day, and been at one with nature Look into your heart and tell me you don't think there is a God.......;)
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Only_Gay_Christian_Midget said:
Why believe in something so strongly that you haven't even seen, touched, or heard? Why would you dedicate you whole life to make something happy, that you don't know exists beyond a reasonable doubt?
Because I can't see, touch, and hear everything. I never saw, touched, or heard the roman empire. Should I discredit it? I've never seen, heard, or touched my great grandpa. Did I not have a great-grandpa? I would beleive in very little if I only beleived in what I saw, touched, or heard. Very little.
 

Deut 13:1

Well-Known Member
Only_Gay_Christian_Midget said:
Why believe in something so strongly that you haven't even seen, touched, or heard? Why would you dedicate you whole life to make something happy, that you don't know exists beyond a reasonable doubt?
You're right, I've never seen evolution happen.
 

Radar

Active Member
michel said:
At the risk of laying myself open to abuse from non-theists, have you ever seen your child born ? - have you gone out, on a beautiful day, and been at one with nature Look into your heart and tell me you don't think there is a God.......;)
I did witness my childs birth and I cried. I love my child and will always. I don't hold any expectaion of her. I will love her and raise her the best that I can. She will grow and eventually leave my home for a life of her own to live as she sees fit. She will always be welcome in my home no matter what she does with her life. If she chooses to have faith, I will love her no matter what that faith may be. If she is homosexual, I will love and allow her to bring her partner into my home. If she commits a crime I will love her and visit her in jail and try to help her rebuild her life when she is released. She is free do with her life whatever she wants I will always love and welcome her into my home. She does not have to live her life for me or my benefit. I love her unconditionally, wouldn't it be nice if your god could say them same.
 

Radar

Active Member
Aqualung said:
Because I can't see, touch, and hear everything. I never saw, touched, or heard the roman empire. Should I discredit it? I've never seen, heard, or touched my great grandpa. Did I not have a great-grandpa? I would beleive in very little if I only beleived in what I saw, touched, or heard. Very little.
Bet you have seen a picture though.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
You can't see the Roman Empire, but you can read the records they kept, and you can
go and sit in the Colliseum for goodness' sake.

Very bad example. Roman Empire is very verifiable. Also same with your Great
Grandfather. You obviously had a great Grandfather. You would not be here if you
did not. Now, the person you think is your Great Grandfatehr may not in fact be
your ancestor. Only your Great Grandmother would know that. But that is between
you and her, I don't want to get in the middle of a family squabble.

How is looking at a sunset any more evidence of God, Yahweh, Allah's existence than
it is evidence of American Indian's "Great Spirit"? Or of Ra's existence? Or Thor's?

B.
 

Deut 13:1

Well-Known Member
MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
You can't see the Roman Empire, but you can read the records they kept, and you can
go and sit in the Colliseum for goodness' sake.
You can also read the records about G-d, what's the problem?

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Very bad example. Roman Empire is very verifiable.
So is the bible, it's your choice if you want to believe what the written records show.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Binyamin said:
So is the bible, it's your choice if you want to believe what the written records show.
At issue is whether your opinion "of what the records show" is informed by an objective understanding of what the evidence reveals.

The "records show" that our species is driven to create myth and legend.
The "records show" that these narratives are often far removed from history.

I fully expect that Maimonides would view the Exodus as Midrash.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Only_Gay_Christian_Midget said:
Why believe in something so strongly that you haven't even seen, touched, or heard? Why would you dedicate you whole life to make something happy, that you don't know exists beyond a reasonable doubt?
did the Atom exist in the Dark Ages?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I don't know if it will help,
but I have provided the defender's notes (which I always find invaluable), in case it makes any difference to how you interpret this section

8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Noah thus sacrificed what amounted to one-seventh of his flocks and herds of domestic animals, a real act of thanksgiving and faith on his part. The world was far more forbidding than when they had entered the ark: rugged and desolate, cold and stormy, barren and silent. However, it had been purged and cleansed of its wicked and violent inhabitants, and God had preserved His remnant through the awful cataclysm, so Noah's sacrifice was a service of both great praise and earnest petition.




8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.


The promise of God, given in response to Noah's sacrificial prayer of thanksgiving and intercession, is tremendous in scope. He would never again "curse the ground" with a worldwide curse as He had done following Adam's sin. The Edenic curse is still in effect, of course, but there would be no other curse. Noah had, indeed, brought "comfort" to the world concerning "the ground which the Lord had cursed" (Genesis 5:29).
Neither would God ever again bring a worldwide cataclysm to the earth as He had with the Flood


8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. This dual promise would be kept as long as the earth existed in its probationary state, with man still in his sinful condition, his "heart evil from his youth." Eventually, the earth would be renovated and the curse removed altogether (Revelation 22:3).
The principle of uniformity is here established by God for the post-Flood world. Not only would the basic laws of nature still continue (these had, of course, operated even during the Flood) .
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
Binyamin said:
You can also read the records about G-d, what's the problem?

So is the bible, it's your choice if you want to believe what the written records show.
I can also read Bram Stoker's Dracula, C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia, or
S.E. Hinton's Rumblefish. Does the fact that these items are written down
make them factual?

Records of taxes levied and collected, wars fought and won, or lost, and
blueprints that later turned into structure are records.

Fantastical stories of happenings which cannot be verified, and which go
against all known laws of physics are merely stories. Not records.

Tales of Zeuss, Athena and Apollo were also written down. Why am I to
beleive that your written tales of your god is any more legitimate than
tales of Thor, Odin, Ra, etc. ? I am not trying to pick a fight with that
question. It is a legitimate question.

Not to many followers of Apollo running around today, tho they were
prevelant at one time. How do you account for this? Apollo was a false
god, right? If so, why did so many follow him for so long? What evidence
is there that any one particular god exists? There is no more, and no less
evidence for the existance of God/Yahweh/Allah, than there is for Apollo.

B.
 
Hello, all. First post, it's good to be here. :cool:

I agree that God will never again destroy every living thing. That would just make him look like a failure. There are other passages that testify to his promise in Genesis 7, such as Psalm 104:5 or Ecclesiastes 1:4.

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Records of taxes levied and collected, wars fought and won, or lost, and
blueprints that later turned into structure are records.

Fantastical stories of happenings which cannot be verified, and which go
against all known laws of physics are merely stories. Not records.
I'm a Christian, and I agree with everything here.

Tales of Zeuss, Athena and Apollo were also written down. Why am I to
beleive that your written tales of your god is any more legitimate than
tales of Thor, Odin, Ra, etc. ? I am not trying to pick a fight with that
question. It is a legitimate question.
The credibility of scripture comes from its exact fulfillment and adherance to recorded history and its consistency. If we want to prove or disprove the Bible, we have to find out if it's accurate, starting from the inside out.

Thus far, I've found no historical deviation in the scriptures. In fact, I've found considerable evidence in the Bible to cause be to uphold it's divine inspiration, especially the fulfillment of prophecy. For instance, the judgment upon Egypt by the Assyrian conquest (Isaiah 19-20), the prophecy of Cyrus (who was not born for another 120 years), or the warning against Israel in Deuteronomy 28. Most considerable of all, however, is the striking fulfillment of Christ's words to his apostles and prophecies toward the Jewish nation in the first century. Every prophecy recorded in the New Testament came to pass entirely within that 40 year timeframe (i.e. "this generation", Matthew 24:34), most of which dealt with God's judgment on the apostate nation of Israel.

There are many historians who have chronicled that first century history, such as Josephus, Eusebius, Augustus, and Tacitus. One quote that I find particularly interesting is a phenomena which Josephus mentions in his description of the Roman-Jewish war of ( ca. 68-70AD), though it is by no means solitary.

"Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities."
-Josephus, Wars of the Jews; book 6, chapter 5, section 3

It is the fulfillment of the natural events and witness of the supernatural, especially by secular and (in the case of Christianity) Jewish sources, that lends credit to the authority of the scriptures in my opinion. If you want to do some very interesting study, look into the history of the first-century Church and the Jewish nation.

Hopefully we'll have some very interesting discussions in the future. If you are able to disprove Christianity, I'm able to change.

God bless.
-Bill
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Only_Gay_Christian_Midget said:
Why believe in something so strongly that you haven't even seen, touched, or heard? Why would you dedicate you whole life to make something happy, that you don't know exists beyond a reasonable doubt?
Paid off for Noah. It had never rained on Earth, much less flooded. Yet when God told Noah to build a ship and how to do it, 'cause it was gonna rain for 40 days and nights straight and the whole world was gonna be covered in water. Despite the folks who laughed and laughed at him for his 120 year project, he kept on keeping on because of his Faith. He preached and preached but of course, no-one listened. Once the ark was built, Noah and his family spent a whole week in what had to be a seriously stinky boat before the first drop of rain even fell. Now THAT's faith :eek:.

I sometimes wonder if I even have a minute fraction of the faith Noah had. I often wonder if it's enough.... I hope so 'cause it's all I have. But though it may be puny, it's there. What's the point? Why hang on to something I haven't seen or touched or heard? I guess because God has proved to me just enough to keep me believing. There are just enough "coincidences" that just cannot be purely by chance. As a biologist, I just see to much of a higher power that had to have a hand in creating life. Things written in Scripture thousands of years ago actually came to be.

Someone once gave me an analogy of how although we cannot actually look at the sun itself, we see the light from it, feel the heat from it, see it as a reflection using special filtering lenses, study the gasses coming from it. We still know pitifully little about the sun, but we know it exists. That's how I "see" God... I see what he's done ~ for me personally as well as for others. I see what He's created. I see the scriptures fulfilled. I guess that's enough for me.... I stay faithful 'cause the promises He's made in Scripture give me hope that there's something far, far better than this pathetic existance I'm enduring now. What have I got to lose by believing? Absolutely nothing.

I know it was kinda lengthy... but you asked.... :cool: Even so, I think I have failed miserably in explaining why I believe so strongly that no skeptic who thinks she or he has all the proof necessary to prove my God is not real. That He's shown me otherwise outweighs all "proof" anyone could ever come up with.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Interesting read. Thanks, AL.

Despite his shortcomings (as all of us have) he still had a lot more faith than I do.

The article mentions how much more righteous Abraham was than Noah.... but in reading about Abraham's life, he had his own failures as well.... Just 'cause we have faith doesn't mean we will never fall short. In a way, I'm thankful for these lessons ~ I'm the worst failure I know.... even more worthless than Noah ever was (at least he's an example of faithfulness). But somehow God's still here for me ... I suppose that's what keeps me in the Faith.
 
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