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Did Jesus say he was God???

earlwooters

Active Member
Jesus was the 'Son Of Man". This is the way he described himself more than any other description. It's a strange way for one who was supposed to be born of a virgin, to refer to himself, as the "Son Of Man". Did Jesus ever call himself God? Jesus never said "I am God". But he called himself the "Son Of Man" many times.The real question is who was this "man"?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus was the 'Son Of Man". This is the way he described himself more than any other description. It's a strange way for one who was supposed to be born of a virgin, to refer to himself, as the "Son Of Man". Did Jesus ever call himself God? Jesus never said "I am God". But he called himself the "Son Of Man" many times.The real question is who was this "man"?

Jesus was also called: Son of David. [Mt 1v1;9v27] meaning heir of God's kingdom in the family line of king David. -Daniel 7vs13,14

Being called Son of man calls our attention to Jesus being of our human race.
Mankind by virtue of his fleshly birth on earth.

Whereas Jesus being the Son of God stresses his being of divine origin [heaven] meaning not descending like us from sinner Adam.

So, the one like the a son of man at Rev [1v13; 14v14] refers to or represents the heavenly Jesus even in his heavenly position. - Acts 7v56
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus is Jehovah!


  • Jehovah knows “all things.” (1 John 3:20; Psalm 147:5)
  • Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30)

  • Jehovah is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10)
  • Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23)

  • Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13)
  • Jesus sanctifies us. (Hebrews 10:10)

  • Jehovah is our peace. (Judges 6:23)
  • Jesus is our peace. (Ephesians 2:14)
Jehovah is our righteousness. (Jeremiah 23:6)
  • Jesus is our righteousness. ( 1 Corinthians 1:30)

  • Jehovah is our healer. (Exodus 15:26)
  • Jesus heals us. (Acts 9:34)

  • Jehovah God dwells in us. (2 Corinthians 6:16)
  • Jesus is in us. (Romans 8:10)2.

  • Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39)
  • Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28)
Jehovah’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters.” (Ezekiel 43:2)
  • Jesus’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters.” (Revelation 1:15)

  • Jehovah is present everywhere. (Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27)
  • Jesus is omnipresent. (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20)

  • Jehovah’s nature does not change. (Malachi 3:6)
  • Jesus’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8)3.

  • Jehovah is the only God we are to “serve.”
    (2 Kings 17:35)
  • Jesus is to be served. (Col. 3:24)

  • Jehovah is the only God to be “worshipped.” (Exodus 34:14)
  • Jesus receives the same honor and “worship” that the Father receives. (John 5:23; Revelation 5:11-14 compare with Rev. 4:10-11)4.
  • No angel can receive “worship.” (Revelation 22:8-9)

  • Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy. (Isaiah 8:12b-13)
  • Jesus as Jehovah is to be set apart as holy. (1 Peter 3:14b-15a)5.

  • Jehovah’s glory is not to be given to another.
    (Isaiah 42:8)
  • Jesus shares Jehovah’s glory. (Jn. 17:5)

  • God’s name is Jehovah (or Yahweh--YHWH). (Isaiah 42:8)
  • Jesus has Jehovah’s name. (John 17:11; John 16:14-15)

  • Jehovah is the only God to be mentioned in prayer. (Exodus 23:13)
  • Christians are to pray to Jesus.
    (John 14:14)

  • Calling upon Jehovah (Joel 2:32)
  • is the same as calling upon Jesus. (Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9-13)

  • Jehovah “the true God” is called “eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)
  • Jesus is called “the eternal life.” (1 John 1:2)

  • Jehovah is the “mighty God.” (Jeremiah 32:17-18; Isaiah 10:20-21)
  • Jesus is the “mighty God”
    (Isaiah 9:6) who is “Almighty.” (Revelation 1:7-8) THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. (1 Timothy 1:17; Isaiah 44:8)

  • Jehovah is an “everlasting light.” (Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 60:19-20)
  • Jesus is the light of men and the everlasting light of the future city. (John 1:4-9; Revelation 21:23)

  • Jehovah is “the first and the last.” (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12)
  • Jesus is the “first and the last.”

  • (Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, 20)
  • Jehovah is the “Alpha and the Omega.” (Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6-7)
  • Jesus is the “Alpha and the Omega.” (Revelation 22:12-13, 20)

  • Jehovah’s title is “the Holy One.” (Isaiah 47:4)
  • Jesus is “the Holy One.” (Acts 3:14; John 6:69)

  • Jehovah is the “stumbling stone” of Israel.
    (Isaiah 8:13-15)
  • Jesus is the “stumbling stone” of Israel. (1 Peter 2:6-8)

  • John the Baptist was to prepare the way for Jehovah. (Isaiah 40:3)
  • The Jehovah who came was Jesus.
    (Mark 1:1-4; John 1:6-7, 23)

  • Jehovah is the one who was “pierced.” (Zechariah 12:10)9.
  • Jesus is the pierced Jehovah. (John 19:34; Revelation 1:7-8)

  • The Jehovah who was sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:13)
  • is Jesus. (Matthew 27:2-6)

  • Jehovah is Lord of the elements. (Psalm 89:8-9)
  • Jesus is Lord of the elements. (Matthew 8:26-27; John 2:7-9) There's just one Lord

  • Jehovah is the great Judge who gives life to whom he wishes and who renders to each man “according” to his “deeds.” (Psalm 98:9; Deuteronomy 32:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10)
  • Jesus is the only judge who gives life to whom he wishes and renders to each man “according” to his “deeds.” (John 5:21-22; Revelation 2:18, 23)

  • Jehovah is the only one who can forgive sins. (Mark 2:7; Daniel 9:9)
  • Jesus forgives sins. (Mark 2:10-11; Luke 24:46-47)

  • Jehovah is the great “shepherd” who leads his people to “the spring of the water of life.” (Psalm 23:1-2; Revelation 21:6-7)
  • Jesus as the “shepherd” of His people, leads them “to springs of the water of life.” (John 10:11-18; Revelation 7:17) THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEPHERD --John 10:16.

  • Jehovah is “Lord of Lords.” (Deuteronomy 10:17)
  • Jesus is “Lord of Lords.” (Revelation 17:14; 19:16)
  • The Father is Lord of all. (Matthew 11:25;
    Acts 17:24)
  • Jesus is “Lord of all.” (Acts 10:36) THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD. (Jude 4)

  • Jehovah is the Savior. (Isaiah 45:21-22)
  • Jesus is the Savior. (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1) THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR. (Isaiah 43:11)

  • Jehovah created the universe. (Psalm 102:25-27)
  • Jesus created the universe. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-19;10.
  • Hebrews 1:10-12).11. THERE IS ONLY ONE CREATOR. (Isaiah 44:24)

  • Isaiah saw Jehovah. (Isaiah 6:1-5)
  • The Jehovah that Isaiah saw was Jesus. (John 12:41)

  • Jehovah is the I AM. (Exodus 3:13-14 Isaiah 43:10-15,25)
  • Jesus is the I AM.(John 18:5-8 Rev 1:17-18)

  • Jehovah is our husband. (Isaiah 54:5 Jer 31:32)
  • Jesus is our bridegroom. ( Matt 9:15 Matt 25:10 Jn 3:28)
“For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.”—Isaiah 46:9
Jesus sounds pretty close to God right?!

“You are My witnesses…Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me.…there is no savior besides Me.”—Isaiah 43:10-12​


According to Matthew [24v36] Jesus does Not know all things !

The name Jesus even means: Jehovah is salvation.

That name points out that Jehovah is the source of Jesus and of our salvation.
Father and Son are spoken of together in connection with Salvation at Titus 2 vs11-13; 3 vs4-6.

We come unto God by Jesus to make intercession/ plead for us.
-Hebrews 7v25; 1st Timothy 2v5
 

SUAS

New Member
While I agree with you about the Divinity of Jesus.

To use Bible quotes to prove it, requires the reader to accept the Truth of the Bible.

This belief does not always exist.

I am very selective in my reading of the Bible and get more from the colour and the teachings of the Bible than the exactness of the translation or the actual words.

Jesus teachings were so new in the world, as compared to the Jewish norm, that their teaching and truth shine through.

Contrary wise some of Paul's teachings are so much like the teachings of a Jew of his time, that although moral issues are handled well, they often show little of the new reality that Jesus brought us.

Jesus speaks directly to our heart and soul.

your basically saying that the bible contradicts itself? if yes can you please provide me with an example?
 

Yanni

Active Member
Jesus cannot be God and the reason why the Jews didn't accept him is because the Torah (the "Old" Testament) even WARNED the Jews of him. And I will qoute:
"If there should stand up in your midst a prophet or a dreamer of a dream, and he will produce to you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them!" - do not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of a dream, for HASHEM, your God, is testing you to know whether you love HASHEM, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul. HASHEM, your God, shall you follow and Him shall you fear; His commandments shall you observe and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve and to Him shall you cleave. And that prophet and that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death, for he had spoken perversion against HASHEM, your God - Who takes you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeems you from the house of slavery - to make you stray from the path on which HASHEM, you God, has commanded you to go; and you shall destroy the evil from your midst." (Deuteronomy, Chapter 13, Verse 2-6).
Now Jesus did not follow the laws of the Torah properly, and he even told others to stray from the Torah's laws; for example, when Jesus said, "Let the dead bury the dead." There is a Torah law that a person has an obligation to bury his/her departed relative. And even if there is a dead person on the road, one may not pass the body without giving it the proper honor of burying the body. Jesus did exactly what the Torah passage I quoted above warned of. The laws of the Torah are eternal, as the Torah states, "The entire word that I command you, that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it." (Deuteronomy, Chapter 13, Verse 1). "And you shall not subtract from it." God Himself states that He will never change His laws in numerous places. When God promises something, He (being perfect) NEVER goes back on His Word. And the Jewish faith NEVER in it's 3,000 year history (even before Jesus was born) had a concept of a Trinity. "Let us follow the gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them" includes concepts of God that Moses did not teach us at Mount Sinai, because he taught us the Torah in its ENTIRETY, including the hidden secrets of the Torah. The Trinity was not included. So if Jesus is supposed to be God, or part of Him, or the son of Him, whatever, that contradicts the fundamental doctrines of the Torah ("Old"Testament) which came into existence long before Jesus arrived on the scene.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Jesus cannot be God and the reason why the Jews didn't accept him is because the Torah (the "Old" Testament) even WARNED the Jews of him. And I will qoute:
"If there should stand up in your midst a prophet or a dreamer of a dream, and he will produce to you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them!" - do not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of a dream, for HASHEM, your God, is testing you to know whether you love HASHEM, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul. HASHEM, your God, shall you follow and Him shall you fear; His commandments shall you observe and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve and to Him shall you cleave. And that prophet and that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death, for he had spoken perversion against HASHEM, your God - Who takes you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeems you from the house of slavery - to make you stray from the path on which HASHEM, you God, has commanded you to go; and you shall destroy the evil from your midst." (Deuteronomy, Chapter 13, Verse 2-6).
Now Jesus did not follow the laws of the Torah properly, and he even told others to stray from the Torah's laws; for example, when Jesus said, "Let the dead bury the dead." There is a Torah law that a person has an obligation to bury his/her departed relative. And even if there is a dead person on the road, one may not pass the body without giving it the proper honor of burying the body. Jesus did exactly what the Torah passage I quoted above warned of. The laws of the Torah are eternal, as the Torah states, "The entire word that I command you, that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it." (Deuteronomy, Chapter 13, Verse 1). "And you shall not subtract from it." God Himself states that He will never change His laws in numerous places. When God promises something, He (being perfect) NEVER goes back on His Word. And the Jewish faith NEVER in it's 3,000 year history (even before Jesus was born) had a concept of a Trinity. "Let us follow the gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them" includes concepts of God that Moses did not teach us at Mount Sinai, because he taught us the Torah in its ENTIRETY, including the hidden secrets of the Torah. The Trinity was not included. So if Jesus is supposed to be God, or part of Him, or the son of Him, whatever, that contradicts the fundamental doctrines of the Torah ("Old"Testament) which came into existence long before Jesus arrived on the scene.

one thing. jews did accept him...as a way to reconcile the destruction of the temple, from what i understand.
 

Yanni

Active Member
one thing. jews did accept him...as a way to reconcile the destruction of the temple, from what i understand.
Only a minority accepted him, but that's because they weren't strongly connected with the Torah and tradition, and were deceived.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
[FONT=&quot]It was only Jews who at first accepted and followed Jesus Christ. It was only Jews who at first believed Jesus was the fulfillment of prophecy. And it was Jews who first preached the gospel; or good news about Jesus Christ. It was also Jews who first understood and accepted the triune nature of God baptizing new believers in Jesus in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It appears Saul (Paul) who was a Jew and Pharisee was strongly connected to the Torah and tradition:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“My manner of life from my youth, which was spent from the beginning among my own nation at Jerusalem, all the Jews know. They knew me from the first, if they were willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers. To this[/FONT][FONT=&quot] promise our twelve tribes, earnestly serving God night and day, hope to attain. For this hope’s sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews. Why should it be thought incredible by you that God raises the dead? Acts 26:4-8[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Peter was a Jew and in Acts Chapter one he was speaking to Jews, men of Israel, using fulfilled prophecy to demonstrate that Jesus was the One foretold in the scriptures and 3000 Jews believed in Jesus that day.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 1:40-42[/FONT]
 

Yanni

Active Member
[FONT=&quot]It was only Jews who at first accepted and followed Jesus Christ. It was only Jews who at first believed Jesus was the fulfillment of prophecy. And it was Jews who first preached the gospel; or good news about Jesus Christ. It was also Jews who first understood and accepted the triune nature of God baptizing new believers in Jesus in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It appears Saul (Paul) who was a Jew and Pharisee was strongly connected to the Torah and tradition:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“My manner of life from my youth, which was spent from the beginning among my own nation at Jerusalem, all the Jews know. They knew me from the first, if they were willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers. To this[/FONT][FONT=&quot] promise our twelve tribes, earnestly serving God night and day, hope to attain. For this hope’s sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews. Why should it be thought incredible by you that God raises the dead? Acts 26:4-8[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Peter was a Jew and in Acts Chapter one he was speaking to Jews, men of Israel, using fulfilled prophecy to demonstrate that Jesus was the One foretold in the scriptures and 3000 Jews believed in Jesus that day.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 1:40-42[/FONT]
So, those Jews unfortunately were influenced by deceit. Just because some Jews accepted him doesn't mean that all Jews should have? No one is perfect. Some people are gifted at deceiving others. But as I pointed out above, if Jesus told someone to go against the Torah command of burying his dead, then he couldn't have been sent from God (or God Himself).
 

Yanni

Active Member
The only way one can be deceived, is if he is not strongly connected with God.
That's right. Not every person is strongly connected with God. Many previous believers lost their faith after the Holocaust. So those Jews who were able to be deceived were those who weren't strong enough in their faith.
 

Otherright

Otherright
your basically saying that the bible contradicts itself? if yes can you please provide me with an example?

I can provide you a ton of contradictions.

Here's one. What were the last words of Jesus on the cross?
According to Mark it is "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
According to Luke, "
Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
According to John,
"It is finished."


Here is a bonus one:

The thieves on the cross. Mark and Luke tell a different story. Did the thieves revile him or did only one?

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 

Yanni

Active Member
I can provide you a ton of contradictions.

Here's one. What were the last words of Jesus on the cross?
According to Mark it is "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
According to Luke, "
Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
According to John,
"It is finished."


Here is a bonus one:

The thieves on the cross. Mark and Luke tell a different story. Did the thieves revile him or did only one?

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
I just want to point out that the "New Testament" definitely contradicts itself. The "Old Testament," or the Torah, does not contradict itself.
 

Shermana

Heretic
I just want to point out that the "New Testament" definitely contradicts itself. The "Old Testament," or the Torah, does not contradict itself.

The only book which contradicts is Ruth which falsely allows marriage of Moabites. I believe Ruth was a later post Ezra addition. David would be spinning in his grave to hear they wrote that he was of Moabite lineage.
 

Otherright

Otherright

I can provide you a ton of contradictions.

Here's one. What were the last words of Jesus on the cross?
According to Mark it is "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
According to Luke, "
Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
According to John,
"It is finished."


Here is a bonus one:

The thieves on the cross. Mark and Luke tell a different story. Did the thieves revile him or did only one?

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I can provide you a ton of contradictions.
Here's one. What were the last words of Jesus on the cross?
According to Mark it is "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
According to Luke, "
Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
According to John,
"It is finished."
Here is a bonus one:
The thieves on the cross. Mark and Luke tell a different story. Did the thieves revile him or did only one?
Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Apparent contradictions:

Why did you put the comma [,] before the word Today?
KJV inserted the comma [,] before today, but Jesus went to hell the day he died. Acts 2vs27,31,32. The comma [,] is in the wrong place.
Jesus was giving a future promise on that day to the one criminal.
[Daniel 12vs2,13; Acts 24v15]

When you put all 4 gospel accounts together they make one complete picture. So it is finished is the last.

The Romans had mass executions. People assume only three hanging together. One on one side of Jesus and one on the other side.
Some later thieves could have been brought there at that day.

Interesting there is a calvary to be seen at Ploubezere near Lamnion, in the Cotes-du-Nord, Brittany known as Les Cing Croix [the 5 crosses].
There is a high cross in the center with four [4] smaller crosses , two on each side. So those people concluded there were more than just two [2] with Jesus.
 
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Otherright

Otherright
When you put all 4 gospel accounts together they make one complete picture. So it is finished is the last.

The Romans had mass executions. People assume only three hanging together. One on one side of Jesus and one on the other side.
Some later thieves could have been brought there at that day.

These are not the only contradictions, they are just two examples.

When you combine all four Gospels together, and pick and choose what you want from those accounts, you are creating your own Gospel.

People assume only two thieves because that is what the Gospels tell you. It does not tell that later more thieves were brought, they tell you two thieves, one on either side.
 
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