Confronting Islamic terrorism in the long term

Mr Spinkles · Aug 16, 2004

Phoenix said:
You mean her highly respecting any religion with the same God as hers and trying to change world governments to Divine Dictatorships? Hmm..

No, I mean exactly what I said.

Well, in Capitalism, there will always be the extremely poor and the extremely wealthy.

Correction: in capitalism, there will always be a relative division of wealth. "Extremely poor" is a relative term...the poorest third in the U.S. are relatively rich compared to people living in communist countries like Cuba and North Korea (which have a sharper contrast between rich and poor than we do). Remember, "A rising tide lifts all boats".

What are we forcing onto Iraq?

We aren't forcing anything on Iraq. It's impossible to "force" a nation to adopt democracy if they don't want it...they'll just use the democratic process to alter the constitution and become a dictatorship, if that's what they want. However, polls show most Iraqis (and Arabs in general) have strong democratic ideals and do want representative government with a free press and a seperate judiciary (although they are divided as to how large a role religion should play in government).

I hope a radical Communist country decides to take Bush out of power and establish a Communistic government, which they think will be better for the people than Capitalism. Which is totally true. Then we might start to understand how arrogant we are.

I think it would just show how arrogant it would be for someone to wish destruction upon his fellow countrymen just so he could say "I told you so".

You mean including us, of course. Right?

Right.

Phoenix · Aug 17, 2004

Mr_Spinkles said:
No, I mean exactly what I said.

Uh, the point I was trying to make was she wasn't being religiously tolerant. IE, explain how she is. o_o

Correction: in capitalism, there will always be a relative division of wealth. "Extremely poor" is a relative term...the poorest third in the U.S. are relatively rich compared to people living in communist countries like Cuba and North Korea (which have a sharper contrast between rich and poor than we do). Remember, "A rising tide lifts all boats".

Uh, regardless, we still have poverty, and a lot of it, and I suggest that Bush start trying to eliminate that and other problems in his own country before setting straight the ones of other countries.

We aren't forcing anything on Iraq. It's impossible to "force" a nation to adopt democracy if they don't want it...they'll just use the democratic process to alter the constitution and become a dictatorship, if that's what they want. However, polls show most Iraqis (and Arabs in general) have strong democratic ideals and do want representative government with a free press and a seperate judiciary (although they are divided as to how large a role religion should play in government).

We invaded their country, overthrew their government, and appointed leaders.

I think it would just show how arrogant it would be for someone to wish destruction upon his fellow countrymen just so he could say "I told you so".

Obviously, you don't know what a hyperbole is. Or a hypothetical situation. And that's not arrogant, it's dedicated.

Right.

Oh, good. I knew you were joking when you said "besides us, of course."

Mr Spinkles · Aug 17, 2004

Phoenix said:
Uh, the point I was trying to make was she wasn't being religiously tolerant. IE, explain how she is. o_o

This is what trishtrish said which I intended to commend:

i highly respect Islam. ...Love is what unites all people. when u meet a stranger, one usually doesn't discriminate his religion, but judges his character and how he treats or loves u and others.

Uh, regardless, we still have poverty, and a lot of it, and I suggest that Bush start trying to eliminate that and other problems in his own country before setting straight the ones of other countries.

Ok, a valid opinion. Getting back on topic: Do you think a democratic Middlea East will lead to less terrorism? How would you confront Islamic terrorism in the long term?

We invaded their country, overthrew their government, and appointed leaders.

We overthrew "their" government? Whose government? Most Iraqis despised Saddam...the only reason he remained in power is because he had them scared out of their minds. We appointed leaders to an interim government, yes...but eventually that government will step down and a new government will be elected by Iraqis themselves.

Obviously, you don't know what a hyperbole is. Or a hypothetical situation.

I do, I just didn't think yours was very constructive to our discussion.

And that's not arrogant, it's dedicated.

Dedicated? I thought you said it was just hyperbole...

Oh, good. I knew you were joking when you said "besides us, of course."

I wasn't joking, I was assuming the voice of those who come to power in said fashion. Sorry I kind of phrased it wierd.

Runt · Aug 17, 2004

***MOD POST***

Just a friendly reminder that everyone needs to GET BACK ON TOPIC!

Yerda · Aug 18, 2004

Mr_Spinkles said:
Do you think a democratic Middlea East will lead to less terrorism? How would you confront Islamic terrorism in the long term?

Definitely, I believe a democratic Middle-East would lead to less terrorism. I would confront terrorism in the long run by encouraging a democratic revolution. The nations providing a breeding ground for Islamic terrorists have been excessively oppressive for so long. Maybe a system where people are able to prosper and the nations flourish would increase tolerance and peacefulness as this seems to be the case historically.

Ardhanariswar · Aug 18, 2004

maybe, but hey, most of them over there think democracy is corruption from the west. so, they get scared, then they get angry and then they blow them selves up in suicide attacks.

Yerda · Aug 18, 2004

Gerani1248 said:
most of them over there think democracy is corruption from the west. so, they get scared, then they get angry and then they blow them selves up in suicide attacks.

They may be afraid that democracy will be freedom for US companies and rich natives, and that will probably make them angry. But if, as Mr. Spinkles said "a rising tide lifts all boats" then the Iraqi citizen will have no cause for anger (unreasonable anger that is) or suicide.

If democracy is not as forthcoming as the Iraqi people demand (since there is always the possibility of corruption, which I'd imagine is greater in a fledgling democracy) then they are most likely to be in a better position to take it for themselves.

Mr Spinkles · Aug 18, 2004

Gerani-- polls show that most Arabs favor democratic reform, despite how Arabs are portrayed in the media.

Ardhanariswar · Aug 19, 2004

Arabs? as in arabians? as in saudi arabia?

ya, lets hope so. personally im all for democracy. but in reality, no country likes it when they feel that other countries barge into theirs. india is a demorcracy. yet you see corrupt selfish leaders like jayalaitha (chief minister of tamil nadu) arrest karnadedi (her political rival) on something which no basis.

sigh. what a sad world.

i would really like to see US or the UN barge into china and free tibet. place the dalai lama in his much deserved and honored land!

civilcynic · Aug 19, 2004

I saw an interesting piece on tv last night where reporters were in an Arab community in Great Britain. They were asking individuals about their views of dmocracy for the Arab world. I was very surprised at their responses. Not one individual was supportive of democracy. All of them viewed it as a part of western civilization which they felt was in direct conflict with Islam. Each of the people interviewed basically said the same thing....(paraphrased) 'all we need is Islam...we do not need democracy. Islam provides us with our way of life including how to govern ourselves.'

Mr Spinkles · Aug 19, 2004

Gerani1248 said:
Arabs? as in arabians? as in saudi arabia?

Sorry, I wasn't very specific--instead of Arabs I should have said people in the Middle East.

LittleNipper · Aug 20, 2004

civilcynic said:
I saw an interesting piece on tv last night where reporters were in an Arab community in Great Britain. They were asking individuals about their views of dmocracy for the Arab world. I was very surprised at their responses. Not one individual was supportive of democracy. All of them viewed it as a part of western civilization which they felt was in direct conflict with Islam. Each of the people interviewed basically said the same thing....(paraphrased) 'all we need is Islam...we do not need democracy. Islam provides us with our way of life including how to govern ourselves.'

Well, see this is just the thing. They don't want democracy for the "HOMELAND"
because it's "contrary" to their religious persuasion, yet they are eager enough to move to the West in order to reap all the benifits that a democratic society offers. I would call that HYPOCRICY. If Islam is all that it is suppose to be, then its adherents are committing a grave error by moving to the West. Here I can listen to a man speak against Christianity. Just go to an Arab nation and try to speak out against the faults of Islam. The simple fact is that as a Christian I know GOD will deal with "the infidels" He doesn't need me to beat them up. The fact is that most Moslems don't believe that way or they'd either simply listen or turn a deaf ear... But that's HYPOCRICY for you. Oh,
I don't believe that the Roman Catholic church represented Christianity at all.
What that did represent was man's attempt to control what everyone else believed, in order to CONTROL THE MASSES...

Ardhanariswar · Aug 21, 2004

i sorta agree. if england was entirely ruled by a church and there was no democracy, arabs would not be allowed to speak their mind. well, they would probably be kicked out or converted.

im all for democracy. freedom is good. but hello! the majority of the people in the middle east are... middle eatern! so there barely would be any conflict if the country was ruled by islam. BUT if the US was ruled by a church, that would be bad, cuz there are several several non christians. plus, christians have no right to rule that land anyways.

trishtrish10 · Aug 23, 2004

u all need to research other sources on iraq. not all media sources portray reality there. the curds in the north are the most industrious and ingenious and the majority group. after wwl, the curds in southern turkey, western iran, and nothern iraq wanted their own sovereign nation but were denied that. the bath party in the middle of iraq headed by saddam used torture and fear to rule the shiites in the south and curds in the north. the shiites are the second largest group. all three now must be represented in government and the oppressed now rule. hopefully they won't repeat saddams cruelty, especially since all are fairly represented now. woodrow wilson foiled the curds desire for their own country.

trishtrish10 · Aug 27, 2004

the american indians used torture and terrified settlers. terrorism has existed for centuries. i terrorized a terrorist once on the internet by thretening to turn him into the fbi. he left the chat room in a hurry.

trishtrish10 · Aug 31, 2004

what exactly is terrorism

Ardhanariswar · Aug 31, 2004

the american indians used torture and terrified settlers. terrorism has existed for centuries.

that may be true, but the majority of them were provoked. it was more like the white people terrorize the peaceful native americans. and they still do. its very sad. forcing them on *reservations* the worst piece of dead land in the americas. read the book bury my heart at wounded knee. you see a repetive pattern of how whites promised them everything, but broke thme and tortured and kill the indians.

you have been watching way to many cowboy westerns. lol.

and now bush wants to fight terrorism? i laugh, this country was made by hypocrites.

Feathers in Hair · Sep 4, 2004

One thing I love, that I learned when I began sacred drumming, is that one of the drum-beats most often heard in Westerns, traditionally played as the 'natives are preparing to attack' part, is that that particular drum-beat is most often used in worship ceremonies. So, here they are, trying to potray these people as viscious, and what you're hearing in the background is 'honor to the creator, love to the universe'.

Maybe not on-topic, but it made me laugh.

And terrorism is being a bully. What you make of that depends on your own personality.

anders · Sep 16, 2004

As always, discussions on Islam tends to centre on Arab countries and the Middle East. Let's make a list of the nations with most Muslim adherents. How many of you can name the top four? Where on the list would the first Arab country be? Try not to peek.

Country Number
of Muslims
1. Indonesia‎ 170,310,000‎
2. Pakistan 136,000,000‎
3. Bangladesh 106,050,000‎
4. India ‎ 103,000,000‎
5. Turkey ‎ 62,410,000‎
6. Iran ‎ 60,790,000‎
7. Egypt ‎ 53,730,000‎
8. Nigeria ‎ 47,720,000‎
9. China ‎ 37,108,000‎

Mr Spinkles · Sep 16, 2004

Hmmm, good point anders. Perhaps I should have said "Confronting Middle East terrorism in the long term"...

Then again, Islamic terrorism is definitely linked to the Middle East, even though incidents of Islamic terrorism occur in many other countries. International Islamic terrorism feeds off of Muslim frustration with affairs in the Middle East (especially the Israeli Palestinian conflict) and a sense of historical humiliation for which the West is deemed responsible.

So, when talking about Islamic terrorism around the world, I do think it is appropriate to talk about problems in the Middle East, as the problems in the Middle East are the main causes of most international Islamic terrorism.

Confronting Islamic terrorism in the long term

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