What is your opinion on internet privacy?

Vendetta said:

Doesn't matter she violated my trust. She plastered profanities about me on her facebook and found out she got upset over an old message

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Miscommunication Evidently she did not want to communicate with you.

Because I have heard it all before I will just back out of this thread :run:

Perhaps in your case she went too far and everything is exactly what you say but the other 99.99999999% of the time things are exactly what they seem.

She should not have trashed you though; unless it was a mutual trashing.

:run:

Archer said:

Miscommunication Evidently she did not want to communicate with you.

Because I have heard it all before I will just back out of this thread :run:

Perhaps in your case she went too far and everything is exactly what you say but the other 99.99999999% of the time things are exactly what they seem.

She should not have trashed you though; unless it was a mutual trashing.

:run:

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That's the point....Simply saying "he had to do something" was kind of an immediate crucifixion (no pun intended) on you and Storms part. Every guy isn't devious

Vendetta said:

Storm read my response to Kathryn that should contradict and own everything you disagree with BAM!

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Um, no. It didn't. I was speaking of my friend's situation, not yours.

Vendetta said:

That's the point....Simply saying "he had to do something" was kind of an immediate crucifixion (no pun intended) on you and Storms part. Every guy isn't devious

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Good no flames. I kind of said it may not be the case in one of the posts in this thread. I am glad you are not that way and you understood what I was saying.

Still if you are in the right then it is still good because you don't need all that drama in a relationship she got hers.

Thanks for the clarification, Vendetta, even though reading it made me remember just how TIRING dating is!

OK, here's how I see it now:

1. She probably had a different view of the relationship than you did. One thing's certain - neither of you know each other well.

2. Though she asked permission, and may have even been sincere at the time about simply changing your password without going through your private messages - know in the future that there are not many women who could resist that temptation. I am sure you realize this now - but it's simply not a good idea to allow anyone - but especially someone you don't know well - to crawl all over your personal files, whether they're in a drawer or online.

That being said, though all my stuff is password protected, and I sign off my computer everytime, if my husband asked to look through my online activities, I'd allow it, because I have nothing to hide. Occasionally I've been contacted by an ex - and I've simply not responded and deleted the message, and in a few cases blocked the person. Several of them are nice people, but it's simply not worth the drama to start carrying on conversations. They'll live without being my friend on Facebook.

That's just my advice - but thanks again for clarifying your situation. Sounds gnarly, and it also sounds like you were able to cut your losses early. That woman sounds extremely immature and insecure. You deserve better.

Kathryn said:

Thanks for the clarification, Vendetta, even though reading it made me remember just how TIRING dating is!

OK, here's how I see it now:

1. She probably had a different view of the relationship than you did. One thing's certain - neither of you know each other well.

2. Though she asked permission, and may have even been sincere at the time about simply changing your password without going through your private messages - know in the future that there are not many women who could resist that temptation. I am sure you realize this now - but it's simply not a good idea to allow anyone - but especially someone you don't know well - to crawl all over your personal files, whether they're in a drawer or online.

That being said, though all my stuff is password protected, and I sign off my computer everytime, if my husband asked to look through my online activities, I'd allow it, because I have nothing to hide. Occasionally I've been contacted by an ex - and I've simply not responded and deleted the message, and in a few cases blocked the person. Several of them are nice people, but it's simply not worth the drama to start carrying on conversations. They'll live without being my friend on Facebook.

That's just my advice - but thanks again for clarifying your situation. Sounds gnarly, and it also sounds like you were able to cut your losses early. That woman sounds extremely immature and insecure. You deserve better.

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But Mrs Kathryn, that is the point! You're married. You engaged in the ceremonial activity of saying "I do" and pubically announcing your fidelity to one person. I am a young guy still trying to make my money and progress in my field of study and have not made any public or private arrangements. Point being, I believe we all have a right to privacy, even married couples. I don't believe anyone has a right to violate privacy however regardless whether you have suspicion, don't allow your insecurities to overwhelm your judgment.

Vendetta said:

But Mrs Kathryn, that is the point! You're married. You engaged in the ceremonial activity of saying "I do" and pubically announcing your fidelity to one person. I am a young guy still trying to make my money and progress in my field of study and have not made any public or private arrangements. Point being, I believe we all have a right to privacy, even married couples. I don't believe anyone has a right to violate privacy however regardless whether you have suspicion, don't allow your insecurities to overwhelm your judgment.

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OK, I'm confused now as to your position on this.

Yes, I know I'm married and you're not even in a monogamous relationship. That's why I said that if you are involved in a MONOGAMOUS relationship, your partner has the right to look in your underwear drawer, or your checkbook, or your Facebook account. Preferably with your permission, but regardless of whether or not you give that permission.

I also believe that married people have a right to privacy,of course. But are you actually saying that if you had reason to suspect that your SPOUSE was cheating on you, you don't have the right to look further for evidence?

In the case of cheating partners, it's often not INSECURITIES that create the feeling of suspicion - it's the actions of the cheating partner, and the suspicion is justified.

Partners have the right to know whether or not they are sharing their bed with strangers - health issues trump Facebook "privacy" every time.

Kathryn said:

OK, I'm confused now as to your position on this.

Yes, I know I'm married and you're not even in a monogamous relationship. That's why I said that if you are involved in a MONOGAMOUS relationship, your partner has the right to look in your underwear drawer, or your checkbook, or your Facebook account. Preferably with your permission, but regardless of whether or not you give that permission.

I also believe that married people have a right to privacy,of course. But are you actually saying that if you had reason to suspect that your SPOUSE was cheating on you, you don't have the right to look further for evidence?

In the case of cheating partners, it's often not INSECURITIES that create the feeling of suspicion - it's the actions of the cheating partner, and the suspicion is justified.

Partners have the right to know whether or not they are sharing their bed with strangers - health issues trump Facebook "privacy" every time.

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Ok let me clear some "thangs" up.

I understand marriage is a partnership which requires a significant amount of disclosure which includes disclosure in finances and other areas. BUT despite all of this I believe in certain instances couples involved in monogamous relationships have a right to privacy which includes snails, facebook, myspace etc. Now on the nature of suspicion I say according to my own experience and in no way no offense to you, women who invade privacy do so because of insecurity. I mean, if suspicion is the only thing focused on here then obviously a woman is not secure in how she perceives the relationship so naturally she wants to satisfy that curiousity by invading the privacy to see with absolute certainty that her feelings were correct.

Now that attitude can go both ways: either confirm the feelings or don't confirm it. However if one does Snoop around looking for proof and finds suspicious information but it turns out to be a misunderstanding (like my case) the damage is much greater. You risk not only being wrong but totally decimating a relationship that had no cause for suspicion and invasion of privacy. As to the former, we'll, you simply confirm what you've already felt (he cheated) but I find that infidelity even if done without knowledge of the mate eventually comes out its just the difference is when you find out.

Overall to make sense out of all this I believe in monogamous relationships disclosure has its limits. I believe privacy does amount to individuality. If suspicion happens to transgress privacy then trust really is non existent. I firmly believe if these feelings are overwhelming its better to communicate.

In the case with this young lady her major hangup was the weight and how different she looked from high school. A major red flag for me is when you constantly talk about how fat you look and how attractive I look, and why "how does a guy like you see anything in a fat girl like me?"

Red Flag number two was no matter how many phone calls I make or compliments I give her it always come back to her physique. So as you can see if she has no security within herself how can she be secure in a relationship?

Vendetta,

Your thoughts regarding your privacy in a relationship are not shared by many people. Therefore, if you expect your upcoming girlfriend to act differently from the last one it is better to make this point a very clear one to her (on how much you value your privacy). Because if you don't then this situation is likely to happen more times in the future.

This is just an advice.

Koldo said:

Vendetta,

Your thoughts regarding your privacy in a relationship are not shared by many people. Therefore, if you expect your upcoming girlfriend to act differently from the last one it is better to make this point a very clear one to her (on how much you value your privacy). Because if you don't then this situation is likely to happen more times in the future.

This is just an advice.

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Actually I know many men and women that do share this view. Perhaps its more culture and geography than what it common. It just amount to women stop being so Damn insecure about themselves. But I agree with you, next time I will take the precaution

As for sharing everything in a marriage, I think I have a right to read my mail and email before my husband just opens it and reads it. I have gotten letters and cards from my mother and my husband just rips them open and reads them and then tells me what they say. It makes me mad when he does this and he gets mad when I ask to let me read my mail first and if there is something he needs to hear about, I will let him know. I certainly have nothing to hide, I never write anything on the internet that is very private. But after 20 years, my husband ought to know that I have nothing to hide and he ought to trust me. I never open his mail or email unless he asks me to.

ChristineES said:

As for sharing everything in a marriage, I think I have a right to read my mail and email before my husband just opens it and reads it. I have gotten letters and cards from my mother and my husband just rips them open and reads them and then tells me what they say. It makes me mad when he does this and he gets mad when I ask to let me read my mail first and if there is something he needs to hear about, I will let him know. I certainly have nothing to hide, I never write anything on the internet that is very private. But after 20 years, my husband ought to know that I have nothing to hide and he ought to trust me. I never open his mail or email unless he asks me to.

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Sometimes we do it to aggravate you. It is love.

I wish my wife would open my mail Save me the trouble of filing it (13 usually).

Wait a minute, wait a minute - Vendetta, are you saying that women who "snoop" USUALLY do so out of insecurity?

I'd say that most of the women (and men) I know who have busted their partners for cheating did so by "snooping." Which means that their "snooping" and their suspicions were justified. Which means that they weren't based as much on insecurity as they were on personal observations and "gut feeling."

Are you saying that even if you suspect that your partner is cheating on you, you shouldn't go through their cell phone or their computer? What is the "honorable" way to find out? If you just ask - they're not going to give you a direct and truthful answer in most cases. And often, a partner doesn't want to tip off the other that they are suspicious - for legal and/or self protection purposes.

I actually HOPE my husband goes through my computer on occasion (though he probably doesn't). I welcome it - because I have nothing to hide, and I don't care if he knows it. Now - we don't open each other's mail, but I can promise you that if he gave me a reason to think he was cheating, all bets are off. Heck, we even have separate bank accounts (less hassle, less potential for arguments) but we're on each other's accounts (we just don't use the privilege) - so even though we can pull each other's info up online when we're looking at our own stuff, we don't mess with each other's accounts. I think my husband feels like if he looks at my account, it's like he's rummaging through my purse or something! But - if we started having some sort of financial drama, I wouldn't blame him for looking at my financial dealings.

Same with relationships - you start to think things are going sideways in a monogamous relationship, and you're not getting clear answers as to why - you probably need to, errrr, monitor things a bit more closely.

Sometimes things are happening right under your nose...things that would blow your mind!

If you don't give your sexual partners a good reason to trust you, it is inevitable that some of them will invade your privacy. (read your emails, listen to your messages, read your diaries, snoop through your phone, etc). Right or wrong doesn't really enter into it.

You build trust with honest and open communication. If you haven't been completely clear about the fact you are maintaining other partners and potential interests and open about the details, it's irrational to assume that your girlfriends won't be curious what you are getting up to when their backs are turned and take advantage of opportunities to get into your ****.

My advice is take better care of your own privacy - don't share your passwords with anyone, don't share anything on facebook (even the private messages) if you don't want it in the public domain, set your browsing history to delete every time you close your browser, change your passwords regularly and use a combination of upper, lower case, numbers and symbols.

Also, if a hacker has been into any account of yours, change your passwords on EVERYTHING. I do mean everything. Install Comodo Firewall for a while (the most paranoid firewall around) to make sure that whatever is trying to communicate to or from your computer has your permission

BTW, I have only ever "snooped" on one partner: he cheated and lied to me all the time. I read a couple pages of his diary. If I hadn't known on a subconscious level that he was a liar and a fraud, I wouldn't have done it - I have never done it to anyone else. Was I insecure? Sure I was: my fiance was banging other women all the time and lying to my face about it. Who wouldn't be insecure in such a situation? Did I snoop because I am a fundamentally insecure person? No - I snooped because I suspected that particular person was deceiving me and I was willing to cross a few ethical lines to discover the truth.

Kathryn said:

Wait a minute, wait a minute - Vendetta, are you saying that women who "snoop" USUALLY do so out of insecurity?

I'd say that most of the women (and men) I know who have busted their partners for cheating did so by "snooping." Which means that their "snooping" and their suspicions were justified. Which means that they weren't based as much on insecurity as they were on personal observations and "gut feeling."

Are you saying that even if you suspect that your partner is cheating on you, you shouldn't go through their cell phone or their computer? What is the "honorable" way to find out? If you just ask - they're not going to give you a direct and truthful answer in most cases. And often, a partner doesn't want to tip off the other that they are suspicious - for legal and/or self protection purposes.

I actually HOPE my husband goes through my computer on occasion (though he probably doesn't). I welcome it - because I have nothing to hide, and I don't care if he knows it. Now - we don't open each other's mail, but I can promise you that if he gave me a reason to think he was cheating, all bets are off. Heck, we even have separate bank accounts (less hassle, less potential for arguments) but we're on each other's accounts (we just don't use the privilege) - so even though we can pull each other's info up online when we're looking at our own stuff, we don't mess with each other's accounts. I think my husband feels like if he looks at my account, it's like he's rummaging through my purse or something! But - if we started having some sort of financial drama, I wouldn't blame him for looking at my financial dealings.

Same with relationships - you start to think things are going sideways in a monogamous relationship, and you're not getting clear answers as to why - you probably need to, errrr, monitor things a bit more closely.

Sometimes things are happening right under your nose...things that would blow your mind!

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Did you read in detail what I previously mentioned?

Any woman who constantly complains about their weight and then make "you're going to leave me" accusations has insecurity. I also believe women who Snoop even under suspicion of their mate are insecure insofar as if they are too lazy to communicate their feelings.

Did you read in detail what I previously mentioned?

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Yes. And I'm not talking specifically about your one situation with one dating partner - the conversation has developed into a discussion about mutually monogamous relationships - apparently your particular situation was not at that stage.

I also read these other words from you:

I don't believe anyone has a right to violate privacy however regardless whether you have suspicion, don't allow your insecurities to overwhelm your judgment.

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That's why I asked you for clarification (see my post above). Please answer THOSE questions regarding monogamous relationships in which your partner has given you REASON for suspicion, and is lying to cover up their actions (a very common scenario). Are you saying that even in those situations, it's wrong to look for evidence in order to be informed about the risks your sexual partner is taking with your health and well being?

You also said this:

women who invade privacy do so because of insecurity. I mean, if suspicion is the only thing focused on here then obviously a woman is not secure in how she perceives the relationship so naturally she wants to satisfy that curiousity by invading the privacy to see with absolute certainty that her feelings were correct.

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Are you saying that sometimes "insecurities" are well founded and logical? Or that they are always a sign of some sort of inherent weakness?

I mean, "satisfy that curiosity by invading privacy" seems disdainful of the common scenario involving an unfaithful partner who is lying, and the partner whose life and health is at risk.

It just amount to women stop being so Damn insecure about themselves.

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No. It also involves partners who are lying - about all sorts of very serious things - finances, sexual infidelity, poor business decisions, you name it. These "biggies" are life altering, damaging, embarrassing, and hurtful transgressions from the relationship agreement. Are you honestly saying that even in those situations, the innocent party has to just wait for some sort of proof outside of the computer to surface? Why?

I also believe women who Snoop even under suspicion of their mate are insecure insofar as if they are too lazy to communicate their feelings.

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Too LAZY??????

Vendetta - in my rather extensive experience, a lying partner doesn't share truthful information readily. People often know when they're being lied to - what they DON'T know (and need to ascertain) are the DETAILS and FACTS. They deserve to know these in order to be able to make informed decisions about their own life. When they don't get truthful information from their partner, they need to find the truth elsewhere.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that it's our RESPONSIBILITY to dig deeper and be fully informed. We can't risk our own health and financial stability just because our partner doesn't bother sharing their own poor decisions.

Well I just got through reading my wife's emails and checking out her Facebook and going over the phone bills and making sure she is where she is supposed to be. JK But I started going through her email because she left it open and found these topics in the first 3 emails and realized it was not my account: Stock Up & Save! Up to 38% Off!, Daily Dish - Spicy Mexican Torte and Summer's Hottest Fragrances Have Arrived + $1 Shipping - Today Only!

Storm said:

You don't disagree, I just wasn't rushing to take sides.


OK.

My best friend was hanging out with her boyfriend watching a movie. Unusually, he kept texting, and wouldn't tell her what was up beyond "nothing important." When he went to the bathroom, she read his texts and found out he was cheating on her. Kicked him to the curb.

His stupidity aside, was she in the wrong?

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What if she checked his phone and it turned out it was innocent? She would be in the wrong then, right? It's like saying that discreetly wiretapping peoples phones is justified by the off chance of catching people planning a crime. That aside, regardless of right vs. wrong it's natural for people to become nosy once they become suspicious and distrustful.

Alceste said:

BTW, I have only ever "snooped" on one partner: he cheated and lied to me all the time. I read a couple pages of his diary. If I hadn't known on a subconscious level that he was a liar and a fraud, I wouldn't have done it - I have never done it to anyone else. Was I insecure? Sure I was: my fiance was banging other women all the time and lying to my face about it. Who wouldn't be insecure in such a situation? Did I snoop because I am a fundamentally insecure person? No - I snooped because I suspected that particular person was deceiving me and I was willing to cross a few ethical lines to discover the truth.

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Good points. Ethicality is complex.