Racism, prejudice and bigotry

lunakilo said:

Statement 1: Black people are genarally stupid.
Statement 2: Black people generally have dark eyes.

Are either of these statements racistic, prejudiced or bigot?
Are either of these statements NOT racistic, prejudiced or bigot?

Why/why not?

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Statement 1 is definitely racist.
If it had said: "Black people are generally not well educated" , it would not be racist, depending on who says it. If a person were trying to explain the statistics of education among various races in order to push for a policy for better schools in black neighborhoods, then the statement I posted would be not racist at all.
The problem with calling someone stupid is that the word "stupid" is subjective. Generalizing all black people as stupid is racist,bigoted, prejudiced AND ignorant IMO.

The second statement has no malevolent meaning behind it. I don't think it is malevolently racist. It is racist in the same way as saying "white people get pinkish when they exercise"
I don't think it is racist,bigoted or prejudiced, unless the person saying it also said "therefore they are the spawn of satan"

Revoltingest said:

Consider the statement, "Roma steal.".
Many people recognize the implicit assumption that general statement would not apply to all individuals.

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Consciously maybe. Subconsciously, the discriminatory attitude can still be fed.

Even if you could present clear statistics to demonstrate that any given Roma is significantly more likely to be a thief that a random individual, it's still not right to present that in the simplistic statement "Roma steal". If you wish to state a statistical tendency, state a statically tendency.

Revoltingest said:

I'd say it's OK to make the statement when one's audience get my drift correctly. When there's the peril of misunderstanding, then I'd be more careful in my wording.

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You can't necessarily judge the competence of an audience so why not be careful with your wording in all circumstances? I don't think it is justified for you to take the risk with the reputation of any group and especially all the innocent individuals within that group, just for your convenience not to have to properly explain yourself.

Anyway, for your own benefit, you'd reduce the risk of being accused of (or assumed to be) deliberately discriminatory with such statements.

I've heard a take on it that I like. To be racist is to believe that there are general differences between races. Prejudice or bigotry is to call one better than the other. Incidentally, it implies that acknowledgement that different races exist, is racist.

I think that extends to sexism.

FlyingTeaPot said:

Statement 1 is definitely racist.
If it had said: "Black people are generally not well educated" , it would not be racist, depending on who says it. If a person were trying to explain the statistics of education among various races in order to push for a policy for better schools in black neighborhoods, then the statement I posted would be not racist at all.
The problem with calling someone stupid is that the word "stupid" is subjective. Generalizing all black people as stupid is racist,bigoted, prejudiced AND ignorant IMO.

The second statement has no malevolent meaning behind it. I don't think it is malevolently racist. It is racist in the same way as saying "white people get pinkish when they exercise"
I don't think it is racist,bigoted or prejudiced, unless the person saying it also said "therefore they are the spawn of satan"

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Your entire statement is flawed. Saying "black people are generally not very educated" is indeed racist, its just worded different. Its still a generalization. If you said "disadvantaged African-Americans typically have a poor educational background" would be a lot better. Again intelligence by and large is not necessarily based on ethnic identity

I think any classification of any or all ethnic groups on the basis of some irration prejudicial belief is wrong.

Barcode said:

African-Americans and Latinos are most often negatively labeled as "dangerous" thanks in part to the media. These media influences along with actual criminal behavior by a few will perpetuate common stereotypes and prejudices.

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Would it be racist to say that blacks commit a higher rate of rape per capita than whites?

Kathryn said:

Would it be racist to say that blacks commit a higher rate of rape per capita than whites?

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I would like to see statistics on that. However last time I checked South Africa has the highest

Vendetta said:

I would like to see statistics on that. However last time I checked South Africa has the highest

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In the United States, whites are 80 percent of the population, and commit 51 percent of reported rapes. Blacks are 13 percent of the population, and commit 16 percent of reported rapes. Actually, it's much higher - I don't know how to do the math when you factor in black on black rape.

Race and ethnicity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

White Americans (non-Hispanic/Latino and Hispanic/Latino) are the racial majority, with an 80% share of the U.S. population, per official estimates from the Population Estimates Program (PEP),[ or 75% per the American Community Survey (ACS). Hispanic and Latino Americans compose 15% of the population. Black Americans are the largest racial minority, composing nearly 13% of the population.


Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were 194,270 white and 17,920 black victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2006. Out of the 194,270 cases involving white victims, 50.6% had white offenders and 16.7% had black offenders, while the 36,620 black victims had a figure of 43% black offenders, the remaining being of other or unreported race, with a negligible number of white offenders.



I don't make this stuff up, unfortunately.

Vendetta said:

I think any classification of any or all ethnic groups on the basis of some irration prejudicial belief is wrong.

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As is beating one's children, urinating on a gravesite, shoplifting at the 7-11, ...

Kathryn said:

Would it be racist to say that blacks commit a higher rate of rape per capita than whites?

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Not necessarily, say in contrast to something like "Blacks are criminals".

The context and intention behind such a statement could still be racist though.

HonestJoe said:

Not necessarily, say in contrast to something like "Blacks are criminals".

The context and intention behind such a statement could still be racist though.

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My point is this - that reality is usually not politically correct.

Kathryn said:

My point is this - that reality is usually not politically correct.

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But, as valid as the point is, it's unclear to me that it's in dispute.

It's in discussion -we're discussing racism and Vendetta asked for stats on the topic of rape and race.

Kathryn said:

My point is this - that reality is usually not politically correct.

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Political Correctness has nothing to do with the facts being stated and everything to do with how they are presented. There is a raw fact that a disproportionate number of convicted criminals in the USA are African American. That's backed up with clear statistics and there is absolutely nothing wrong with stating it. The issues occur when people build upon that basic fact, talking about all these black criminals and what we or they (black people in general) are going to do about it.

The problem is that this statistic doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are plenty of other disparities in crime statistics - gender, age, wealth, location, other racial and social groupings - which all cross over and interact. You can't honestly address the problem of crime, even problems with a specific type of crime in a specific area, without looking at the whole. The racism comes out when people chose not to (or are lead away from) all the other factors and focus on "black crime".

Just imagine if the same theme was constantly and exclusively referring to the problem of "male crime" and demanding to know what men are going to do to stop ourselves committing all this crime. It would probably be even more statistically supported but would be laughed out of the room (or shouted down) if anyone seriously brought it up.

HonestJoe said:

Political Correctness has nothing to do with the facts being stated and everything to do with how they are presented. There is a raw fact that a disproportionate number of convicted criminals in the USA are African American. That's backed up with clear statistics and there is absolutely nothing wrong with stating it. The issues occur when people build upon that basic fact, talking about all these black criminals and what we or they (black people in general) are going to do about it.

The problem is that this statistic doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are plenty of other disparities in crime statistics - gender, age, wealth, location, other racial and social groupings - which all cross over and interact. You can't honestly address the problem of crime, even problems with a specific type of crime in a specific area, without looking at the whole. The racism comes out when people chose not to (or are lead away from) all the other factors and focus on "black crime".

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Excellent. Racism is the inference or suggestion of negative, inheritable, racial traits defining behavior and/or capacity. It is, in its most rational sounding manifestation, a cum hoc fallacy persisted in with the intent to denigrate.

lunakilo said:

Statement 1: Black people are genarally stupid.
Statement 2: Black people generally have dark eyes.

Are either of these statements racistic, prejudiced or bigot?
Are either of these statements NOT racistic, prejudiced or bigot?

Why/why not?

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It is racist because of the term Black people. You are indicating that Black people as a whole are either a race or significantly different than how you see yourself. There are many ethnic groups in the world that are dark skinned. Which ethnic group did you use to determine these people where black. None of these ethnic groups would fall outside these statements.

You can not group together any peoples by one feature and make a statement that is not racist. Unfortunately we do it any way and always will and that's sad.

bobhikes said:

It is racist because of the term Black people. You are indicating that Black people as a whole are either a race or significantly different than how you see yourself. There are many ethnic groups in the world that are dark skinned. Which ethnic group did you use to determine these people where black. None of these ethnic groups would fall outside these statements.
You can not group together any peoples by one feature and make a statement that is not racist. Unfortunately we do it any way and always will and that's sad.

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Is it then racist to say anything about white folk too?

Revoltingest said:

Is it then racist to say anything about white folk too?

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That would be a yes!

As I said we use racist remarks easily as easily as we use 4 letter words, some people so frequent and common we stop thinking they are offensive and hurtful.

Dang! Seems we can't talk about anyone as a group.
How then do we identify the group without recognizing that which includes them in the group?

Revoltingest said:

Dang! Seems we can't talk about anyone as a group.
How then do we identify the group without recognizing that which includes them in the group?

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Well you could recognize a group that wants to be recognized as such for example Independents, Republicans or Democrats.

Group recognition though as a whole tends to be bigoted. We are a group because we believe this and others outside our group don't for religious, political or ethnic reasons. The are some altrustic groups out there but no one much talks about them.

Recognize people for there individuality. Any group statement is wrong anyway. Democrats are way to liberal. I could find republicans that would be to liberal for you and Democrats that are too conservative for you. No one fits the norm no matter skin color, language, hair color, Political views or what ever you wish to group them by.