Did Jesus say he was God???

Shermana said:

A lamp is not a light anymore than a light bulb. God is the electricity and Yashua is the lightbulb.

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LOL, chapter and verse please.

Shermana said:

So what does Psalm 136:2 mean. And Psalm 86:1.

You are the one who "just doesn't get it".

Its quite simple, angels are called "gods" as well as "sons of god". You can avoid discussing the specifics of Psam 136:2 "God of the gods" all you want. The "idol gods" are far different, they are truly false gods. Angels are indeed called "gods". I suggest you look up the definition of the word "god" in Hebrew and its origin.

Henotheism is the truest form of Monotheism. Angels are not referred to as "Angels" as a species or even as a being, but as a class. The title for them is "gods", the class/purpose of them is as "Messenger" but the idea of associating the word "Angel" as a winged being with a halo is modern. The word "Evangelos" means "Messenger". Whenever it uses the word "Angel" it is referring to a "messenger from God", but what kind of being is this? According to Psalm 136:2, which you basically deny, it says they are called "gods". Lower case g gods. They are not as powerful as the Creator, they are His creation.

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LOL, you can not prove that angels are gods. eloheem does not mean angels. Fallen angels and may claim to be gods, and man has made his gods in HIS OWN MIND but God does not respect them as gods. Show one place in scripture where God accepts gods and respects them as such. You can't. But I can show you many (and I already have) where God rejects the so-called gods. We've already been down this road and you have failed to prove there are real gods. There is one God and all other "gods" are worthless in God's eyes.

Shermana said:

You completely ignored what I said about Revelation 22:13 and brushed it off as "Philosophy". In addition, one can see that it's not Yashua who is speaking at that point but God, and then Yashua concludes the message as a message from Him from God.

The fullness of Deity = Divinity = The fullness of godhood. Does not mean he is "God". What is the word "Divinity" and what does the word "God" mean, do you even know? The word "Deity" in the sense is not of an entity but of a quality.

Revelation 21:7 is clearly the Throne speaking. You cannot preassume it is Jesus and say "Therefore it is Jesus talking". The lamb is not seated on the throne. Your thing about "John knew that the one on the throne and the lamb are the same" is a great example of Trinitarian logic. How exactly do you derive that conclusion from the text? Dirty Penguin more than adequately described how one holds the book on the throne while the other stands. Your idea they are one and the same is pretty much Polytheism.

I seriously love the fact you completely ignored what I said about Revelation 1:11 having a spurious Alpha and Omega. You're right, we most certainly can't ignore verse 1:8, and that's why the Trintiarians went out of their way to try to add an extra Alpha and Omega to verse 1:11 and possibly even 22:13 but that's debatable especially since it's not Yahsua speaking at that point. To try to say that Yashua calls himself the Alpha and Omega relies on interpolations and extreme twisting the text such as believing that "John knew they the one on the throne and the lamb were one and the same". Just because it says "I Yashua am coming" 7 verses later doesn't mean the Father wasn't the one speaking in 22:13, anymore than it means John was the one speaking it when he says "I John say these things".

I'm assuming you are a King-James onlyist, are you aware that none of the early manuscripts have that Alpha and Omega until the 10th century (coincidentally the same time frame any available copies of the last chapter are from).. When you say "Isaiah 9:6 was translated correctly in the KJV" after I point out that there is no article and that the word is "El" as in 'god", you can believe that, but the facts state otherwise.

Col 2:9-10 about him having principality and power over all nations, guess what, that's exactly what the idea is for the Jewish Moshiach, a human leader of the world invested with full power by the Father.

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Your hatred for the Word of God and your relentless attempts to undermine it can't suppress the truth. I'll prove Rev 21:5-7 is Jesus without ANY REFERENCE TO ALPHA AND OMEGA.

Rev 22:13 IS JESUS. (v12 "And, behold, I come quickly")
In Rev 22:13, the one speaking claims to be the beginning and the end.

NOW LOOK AT 21:6-7

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, *** the beginning and the end ***. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and *** I will be his God ***, and he shall be my son.

You have just been proven WRONG AGAIN. JESUS IS GOD, ON HIS THRONE, HE IS OUR FATHER, and maybe not you, but I AM HIS SON.

Give it up, you can't rob Jesus of His true glory.

Some translations use "heavenly beings" for Elohim instead, but the word means "gods" when it's not used as the Singular Majestic Plural.

Thus 136:2 is "Elohei Ha-Elohim", God of the gods. (Notice the "Ha" as the article for "the" gods). The KJV omits the "The", as do many translations and replaces it with the Elohei. It should be "God of the gods" as opposed to "the God of gods".

ApostolicPeter said:

Your hatred for the Word of God and your relentless attempts to undermine it can't suppress the truth. I'll prove Rev 21:5-7 is Jesus without ANY REFERENCE TO ALPHA AND OMEGA.

Rev 22:13 IS JESUS. (v12 "And, behold, I come quickly")
In Rev 22:13, the one speaking claims to be the beginning and the end.

NOW LOOK AT 21:6-7

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, *** the beginning and the end ***. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and *** I will be his God ***, and he shall be my son.

You have just been proven WRONG AGAIN. JESUS IS GOD, ON HIS THRONE, HE IS OUR FATHER, and maybe not you, but I AM HIS SON.

Give it up, you can't rob Jesus of His true glory.

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Again, Revelation 21:6 is the one seated on the THRONE speaking. Not the Lamb.

Technically Verse 22:12 is an ANGEL talking. Do you ever read the whole passage or do you just cherry pick as you like? Read:

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9But hesaid to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”
10Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
12“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Guess what, the "Angel" is a......messenger....relating a message...as for "Behold I'm coming soon", it means "Behold, I'm going quickly". What do you suppose that means? Has Jesus "Come quickly" to Earth since Revelation? No. It's been about 2000 years. It's clearly talking about God's judgment and his action, not the Lamb's, especially since it's the one on the throne speaking". The word ἔρχομαι means a variety of things. Now look at Zechariah 2:10

... For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. ... The LORD says, "Shout

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Your hatred of context and correct exegesis blinds you to the actuality.

No, actually my LOVE for the word of God is why I try to interpret it correctly. If you mean my hatred for false and spurious additions like the "Alpha and Omega" of 1:11 in the KJV that doesn't show up until the later manuscripts, well then yes, my hatred for that is part of my love for the word

Nice of you to show how you associate disagreement with your interpretation as Hatred of the word.

Shermana said:

Again, Revelation 21:6 is the one seated on the THRONE speaking. Not the Lamb.

Technically Verse 22:12 is an ANGEL talking. Do you ever read the whole passage or do you just cherry pick as you like? Read:

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9But hesaid to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”
10Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
12“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Guess what, the "Angel" is a......messenger....relating a message...

Where did you ever get the idea that it's Jesus talking?

Your hatred of context and correct exegesis blinds you to the actuality.

No, actually my LOVE for the word of God is why I try to interpret it correctly.

Nice of you to show how you associate disagreement with your interpretation as Hatred of the word.

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You are wrong again. Show me anywhere in scripture where Angels REWARD US!!! LOL.

Knowing that of the *** Lord ye shall receive the reward *** of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. (Colossians 3:24)

Furthermore, Jesus is the one coming in the same chapter:
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22:20)

Everybody and every commentary on the planet agrees this is Jesus except you. I'm tired of wasting my time with you. You have been PROVEN WRONG AGAIN and can't admit it. JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!!!!!!!

ApostolicPeter said:

"Kai" doesn't prove separate beings. If that were the case God and the Father are also two separate beings. Below is just one of four occurrences "God and the Father."

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and (kai) the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

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Oh please....

Look, the context of James 1:27 is completely different which is why most bibles render it differently than what you have above.

NIV (1984)
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:

NLV (2007)
Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means

ESV (2001)
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this:

NASB (1995)
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this:

ISV (2008)
A religion that is pure and stainless according to God the Father is this:

The KJV is a horrible translation. It's not something some one serious about bible study should be relying on as a final translation. In Greek that verse is to be understood in its context just as it is rendered above by some of the more recent translations.

ApostolicPeter said:

You are wrong again. Show me anywhere in scripture where Angels REWARD US!!! LOL.

Knowing that of the *** Lord ye shall receive the reward *** of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. (Colossians 3:24)

Furthermore, Jesus is the one coming in the same chapter:
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22:20)

Everybody and every commentary on the planet agrees this is Jesus except you. I'm tired of wasting my time with you. You have been PROVEN WRONG AGAIN and can't admit it. JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!!!!!!!

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What part about the Angel relaying a message didn't you get?

Edit: I don't even think Jesus is speaking 7 verses later.

You can say I've been proven wrong all you want, that doesn't exactly disprove what I've said.

Shermana said:

Some translations use "heavenly beings" for Elohim instead, but the word means "gods" when it's not used as the Singular Majestic Plural.

Thus 136:2 is "Elohei Ha-Elohim", God of the gods. (Notice the "Ha" as the article for "the" gods). The KJV omits the "The", as do many translations and replaces it with the Elohei. It should be "God of the gods" as opposed to "the God of gods".

KJV with Strong's
O give thanks unto the God of gods for his mercy endureth for ever​

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Most Christians never look beyond the English to the Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek to get an understanding as to what their scriptures actually say.

Jesus described himself the son of man more often than he described himself by any other description. Why is that hard to understand?

Shermana said:

What part about the Angel relaying a message didn't you get?

Edit: I don't even think Jesus is speaking 7 verses later.

You can say I've been proven wrong all you want, that doesn't exactly disprove what I've said.

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'

So either way if its even talking ABOUT Jesus then you have been proven wrong and everything you say has been too. But if its not talking about Jesus and its talking about any one else then the bible must of lied.(Rev 3:11 Mark 13:26 Mat 24:30)

Shermana said:

Some translations use "heavenly beings" for Elohim instead, but the word means "gods" when it's not used as the Singular Majestic Plural.

Thus 136:2 is "Elohei Ha-Elohim", God of the gods. (Notice the "Ha" as the article for "the" gods). The KJV omits the "The", as do many translations and replaces it with the Elohei. It should be "God of the gods" as opposed to "the God of gods".
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You have not been able to prove angels are "gods" thus you are wrong. Especially since apostolicpeter was able to prove they are not gods. (Psa 82:6/7 96:5 97:7)

American Patriot said:

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So either way if its even talking ABOUT Jesus then you have been proven wrong and everything you say has been too. But if its not talking about Jesus and its talking about any one else then the bible must of lied.(Rev 3:11 Mark 13:26 Mat 24:30)

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Or it could be you're not familiar with who is talking at specific times throughout Revelation. It's not a slam against you. It just means you have to study the book a little more.

Dirty Penguin said:

Or it could be you're not familiar with who is talking at specific times throughout Revelation. It's not a slam against you. It just means you have to study the book a little more.

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So then you're telling me the angel (this is not Jesus according to Shermana) is going to reward us when He comes quickly, he is going to give every man according as his work shall be, and He is the beginning and the end? Thats sounds blasphemous! Only Jesus Christ our Father is going to do that at the end.

American Patriot said:

So then you're telling me the angel (this is not Jesus according to Shermana) is going to reward us when He comes quickly, he is going to give every man according as his work shall be, and He is the beginning and the end? Thats sounds blasphemous! Only Jesus Christ our Father is going to do that at the end.

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You're confused with who is speaking in these chapters. Let's start from the beginning. At the start we know "God" is not talking because John says the following....

Rev 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their god.

Right off the back we know that this isn't "God". Now pay attention because there is a shift as to who is speaking.

Rev 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I've already established "God" is seated upon the throne. Yeshua is standing in the midst of the 24 elders who are seated upon their thrones. So this description of one who sat upon the throne is speaking of "God" not Yeshua ("The Lamb"). But take note that John is ordered by "God" to write.

Now 21:6 is John writing what "God" ordered him to write. This is not Yeshua speaking nor is it an angel.

Rev 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his god, and he shall be my son.

21:7-8 is still "God" speaking and John writing it down.

Now 21:9-27 is where John introduces one of the angels of "God". In those verses neither "God" nor Yeshua ("the lamb") is speaking. The only one speaking at this point is John explaining what he was shown.

Now as we move to chapter 22 John is still explaining what the angel either is showing him or telling him. We know the angel is still talking because John falls to his feet and is told to not do that. The angel is most likely quoting the sayings of "God" to John especially if you take note of 22:14...

Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

After the angel delivers this message Yeshua then begins to speak.

Rev 22:16-17
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Now at Rev. 22:18-21 is John speaking.

The book of Revelation can be an easy read if one take their time and establish who is speaking and when they're speaking.

dirty penguin said:

you're confused with who is speaking in these chapters. Let's start from the beginning. At the start we know "god" is not talking because john says the following....

Rev 21:3
and i heard a great voice out of heaven saying, behold, the tabernacle of god is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and god himself shall be with them, and be their god.

Right off the back we know that this isn't "god". Now pay attention because there is a shift as to who is speaking.

Rev 21:5
and he that sat upon the throne said, behold, i make all things new. And he said unto me, write: For these words are true and faithful.

I've already established "god" is seated upon the throne. Yeshua is standing in the midst of the 24 elders who are seated upon their thrones. So this description of one who sat upon the throne is speaking of "god" not yeshua ("the lamb"). But take note that john is ordered by "god" to write.

Now 21:6 is john writing what "god" ordered him to write. This is not yeshua speaking nor is it an angel.

Rev 21:6
and he said unto me, it is done. i am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 21:7
he that overcometh shall inherit all things; and i will be his god, and he shall be my son.

21:7-8 is still "god" speaking and john writing it down.

Now 21:9-27 is where john introduces one of the angels of "god". In those verses neither "god" nor yeshua ("the lamb") is speaking. The only one speaking at this point is john explaining what he was shown.

Now as we move to chapter 22 john is still explaining what the angel either is showing him or telling him. We know the angel is still talking because john falls to his feet and is told to not do that. The angel is most likely quoting the sayings of "god" to john especially if you take note of 22:14...

Rev 22:14
blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

After the angel delivers this message yeshua then begins to speak.

Rev 22:16-17
i jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of david, and the bright and morning star. And the spirit and the bride say, come. And let him that heareth say, come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Now at rev. 22:18-21 is john speaking.

The book of revelation can be an easy read if one take their time and establish who is speaking and when they're speaking.

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We don't care who is writing, there is no dispute there.

The issue is who is speaking or being quoted if you prefer, in Rev 21:5-7.

In Revelation 21:6 the one speaking claims to be the beginning and the end.

Revelation 21:6
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the *** beginning and the end ***. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

In Revelation 22:13 the one speaking claims to be the beginning and the end.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13)

In the context, Rev 22:12 shows us this is Jesus. Jesus is the one coming with his reward. This is established by the context of the entire word of God, and accepted by every scholar and commentary except for radical house of yahweh devotees who will deny the full deity of Jesus even if proven wrong by the written Word of God.

Revelation 22:12-13
(12) Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.
(13) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, *** the beginning and the end. ***

Jesus is the one speaking in in Rev 22:12-13. This proves that Jesus is the one speaking in Rev 21:5-7. Which proves that Jesus is the one seated on the throne (v5) and that Jesus is GOD. The Bible does not teach the Big God/little god fallacy of the JW's and some House of Yahweh. The Bible teaches there is ONLY ONE GOD found in the Bible: Jesus Christ.

To House of Yahweh or anyone who can answer:

What name did the disciples baptize in?

American Patriot said:

So then you're telling me the angel (this is not Jesus according to Shermana) is going to reward us when He comes quickly, he is going to give every man according as his work shall be, and He is the beginning and the end? Thats sounds blasphemous! Only Jesus Christ our Father is going to do that at the end.

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Amen.

Matthew 16:27
(27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


This is JESUS speaking. He is the one COMING with His REWARD. Now let's see Jesus say it AGAIN in Rev 22:12-13:

(12) And, behold, I come quickly; *** and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ***
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, *** the beginning and the end ***, the first and the last.

This is Jesus, the beginning and the end!
The same one speaking in Rev 21:5-7!!!

Revelation 21:5-7
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, *** the beginning and the end ***. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


Oh, the Word of God is sooooo awesome Brother. Jesus is the God of Revelation!

ApostolicPeter said:

To House of Yahweh or anyone who can answer:

What name did the disciples baptize in?

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For reference,

In Yashua's. Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 20x and only ever writes in Yashua's name. Same with Igantius's epistles, the reference appears to be interpolated. There is clear evidence that there is an interpolation later for "Father, son and Holy Ghost" as opposed to simply "In my name".

And once again, the one speaking in Rev 22:13 is an Angel relating a message from the One who sits on the Throne. The end verse 20, is the final signature of Yashua sending the message.

Shermana said:

For reference,

In Yashua's. Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 20x and only ever writes in Yashua's name. Same with Igantius's epistles, the reference appears to be interpolated. There is clear evidence that there is an interpolation later for "Father, son and Holy Ghost" as opposed to simply "In my name".

And once again, the one speaking in Rev 22:13 is an Angel relating a message from the One who sits on the Throne. The end verse 20, is the final signature of Yashua sending the message.

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Matthew 28:19

(ASV) Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

(BBE) Go then, and make disciples of all the nations, giving them baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

(CEV) Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

(Darby) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

(DRB) Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

(ERV) So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

(Geneva) Go therefore, & teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and the Sonne, and the holy Ghost,

(GNB) Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples: baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

(GW) So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

(ISV) Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

(KJV) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

(LITV) Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

(MKJV) Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

(RV) Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:

(Webster) Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

(YLT) having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them--to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

(NIV) Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

(AMP) Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them [a]into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

(NASB) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Again you're hatred of the Word of God is uncanny. EVERYBODY got it wrong except you. The whole world agrees Rev 22:13 is Jesus, but you say an angel. 20 translations (at least) agree Mat 28:19 is "Father, Son and Holy Ghost, but EVERYONE of them are wrong and you're right. Why don't you write your own translation since you're the only one in the whole world who knows what the Bible says?

FYI, the Catholic Church changed the formula but not the Word of God. It's gotten to the point where your posts are laughable and have no credibility.

Romans 3:4
(4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Psalms 119:89
(89) LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Revelation 22:18-19
(18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.