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Where do you get your morality?

Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Haven't watched the vid yet, but I can't agree that morality is objective.

Even with a God, it's only objective with proof. Since proof is a fool's game in that context....
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
How does one objectively determine "Harm"?

If there is "harm" to both parties, how does one objectively determine who was "harmed most"?

What if the person causing the "harm" did so without malicious intent? How do you objectively determine intent?

Morality is subjective.... mine is built on a framework of cultural reference, personal reflection and long debates with people of other and similar viewpoints.

wa:do
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Storm said:
Emotions are not objective.
Click to expand...

But everyone experiences guilt and empathy, which is the source of our morals.
I guess I am speaking in a general society sense.
As in a community won't allow someone to steal, murder, or rape any of their neighbors or themselves.
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
painted wolf said:
How does one objectively determine "Harm"?

If there is "harm" to both parties, how does one objectively determine who was "harmed most"?

What if the person causing the "harm" did so without malicious intent? How do you objectively determine intent?

Morality is subjective.... mine is built on a framework of cultural reference, personal reflection and long debates with people of other and similar viewpoints.

wa:do
Click to expand...

However, the community/society would still look out for the safety of the patron.
If there was no malicious intent then of course it wouldn't be seen as morally wrong according to society. That is why ever country has the same basic moral framework.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Warren Clark said:
YouTube - ‪Morality 1: Good without gods‬‏

The video above perfectly describes why religion or a belief in a god is not needed for objective morality.
Click to expand...

I haven't watched the video either - but I have no doubt whatsoever that a good moral code can be followed by someone who is not relying on religion to formulate morality.

To suggest otherwise would be to accuse every non theist of being unable to be moral - which would be preposterous and impossible to contemplate.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Warren Clark said:
However, the community/society would still look out for the safety of the patron.
Click to expand...
But each community will have a different view of what is best. How do you reconcile those subjective differences?

If there was no malicious intent then of course it wouldn't be seen as morally wrong according to society. That is why ever country has the same basic moral framework.
Click to expand...
So it's morally OK to kill someone if you didn't do it maliciously? :shrug:

wa:do
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Warren Clark said:
But everyone experiences guilt and empathy, which is the source of our morals.
Click to expand...
No, not everyone does. That is the clinical definition of psychopathy.

I guess I am speaking in a general society sense.
Click to expand...
Then you ignore a great amount of human history. Every culture has been able to convince itself that some other group was unworthy of basic humanity. That is how we justify wars, poverty and so on.
We have a biologically limited ability to empathize with the rest of our species, it's known as Dunbar's number.

As in a community won't allow someone to steal, murder, or rape any of their neighbors or themselves.
Click to expand...
Again yyou ignore most of human experience. Rape in particular is a very commonly accepted behavior, especially marital rape.

wa:do
 
L

Leisurely Duchess

Freethinker
The argument that a conscious god is the source of objective morality falls flat at face value. If it is truly objective, then it cannot be contingent upon a mind, it would necessarily be subjective to that mind.

For objective morality to exist, it must exist independent of everything, like the laws of logic.

Furthermore, any theist that wants to argue about the existence of objective morality is setting themselves up for failure, because at that point, any action their god makes or has made in the past is comparable to any action a human may take.

For example, in the world of moral objectivism, if it is moral for YHWH to kill an innocent to pay for the crimes of another person, then it is also moral for a human to do the same. If it is moral for YHWH to cause the deaths of children for being bullies, then it is moral for humans to do the same. And so forth.

Effectively, there is no such thing as moral objectivism in theism. Not when there are one set of rules for a god and a different set of rules for humans.
 
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