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Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

Europe

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The TimesOctober 05, 2005
Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
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THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

NI_MPU('middle');The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.” BELIEVE IT OR NOT

UNTRUE

Genesis ii, 21-22



So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”



Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”



Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”



TRUE

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”



Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”



Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

Luke i

The Virgin Birth John xx,28 Proof of bodily resurrection
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Exegetical methods is what is being discussed, not the fullness of the truth of the Scriptures.
Literal doesn't always equal truth.

~Victor
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Catholic church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

Rather inaccurate title and a poorly researched article.

The Catholic Church has, for the last 30 years, taught concerning Scripture :"The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.(CCC #107)"

.... and at the same time acknowledge that "Among all the Scriptural texts about creation, the first three chapters of Genesis occupy a unique place.(CCC#289).... but that Genesis is not to necessarily been taken literally, but "uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents. (CCC# 390).

This article is describing the teaching of 1965's Vatican II as if it was something new.... oh well, that is the "Times" for ya.

Instruction on the Historical Truth of the Gospels
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Scott1 said:
Catholic church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

Rather inaccurate title and a poorly researched article.

The Catholic Church has, for the last 30 years, taught concerning Scripture :"The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.(CCC #107)"

.... and at the same time acknowledge that "Among all the Scriptural texts about creation, the first three chapters of Genesis occupy a unique place.(CCC#289).... but that Genesis is not to necessarily been taken literally, but "uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents. (CCC# 390).

This article is describing the teaching of 1965's Vatican II as if it was something new.... oh well, that is the "Times" for ya.

Instruction on the Historical Truth of the Gospels
You have to admit that "Times" commands a very large audience, spanning a wide readership of different religious beliefs and non belief, and is able to paint an idea or picture more powerful than what the Pope has been doing all these years? (For example, Times article has impressed Michel for him to post in this forum for general discussion and knowledge sharing)

Or the Catholics are just interested in teaching Catholics about everything, but is not interested in spreading their teachings to other Christians, and others?
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
greatcalgarian said:
Or the Catholics are just interested in teaching Catholics about everything, but is not interested in spreading their teachings to other Christians, and others?
Yeah... we're known for our subtle way of dealing with the world.:D
 

sixtus66

New Member
greatcalgarian said:
Or the Catholics are just interested in teaching Catholics about everything, but is not interested in spreading their teachings to other Christians, and others?
Actually, the Church is very interested in sharing their faith and teachings...All you have to do is ask and you will recieve and answer. The problem stems from the fact that when other Christian groups ask and then receive the answer, they want to debate it and tell us we are wrong...Even when we quote scripture and verse from the bible and our doctrines and dogma.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
sixtus66 said:
Actually, the Church is very interested in sharing their faith and teachings...All you have to do is ask and you will recieve and answer. The problem stems from the fact that when other Christian groups ask and then receive the answer, they want to debate it and tell us we are wrong...Even when we quote scripture and verse from the bible and our doctrines and dogma.
This answers aptly the part regarding Christians. What about others? The evangelical effort of Catholics appeared to be less than that of the Protestants denominations?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
greatcalgarian said:
This answers aptly the part regarding Christians. What about others? The evangelical effort of Catholics appeared to be less than that of the Protestants denominations?
There are a number of reasons for that. For one, I think catholics in general aren't as pushy because they have picked up on the stigma of the bible thumper movement. They also have a sense of a higher authority that can correct them. Many shy away from even sharing the faith. There are more reasons but that should give you a gist of why. :bounce

~Victor
 

sixtus66

New Member
greatcalgarian said:
This answers aptly the part regarding Christians. What about others? The evangelical effort of Catholics appeared to be less than that of the Protestants denominations?
True, the evangelicals seem to have the market on very loud evangelization. When I'm preaching to my congregation I tell them that when Jesus commanded us to spread the good news, Catholic belief is that the good news is spread by works and by example. It's one thing to have your finger in the air while waving a bible around with the other hand pontificating; it's a completely different thing to quietly evangelize by DOING works of charity. To most Catholics, this is the best evangelization technique...Evangelizing by example.

Legend has it that this was how St. Francis of Assisi taught the friars how to spread to Gospel...Live out the message found in the Gospel and let the people see hwo its done and when they ask why you do what you do, tell them.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Scott1 said:
Catholic church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

Rather inaccurate title and a poorly researched article.

The Catholic Church has, for the last 30 years, taught concerning Scripture :"The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.(CCC #107)"

.... and at the same time acknowledge that "Among all the Scriptural texts about creation, the first three chapters of Genesis occupy a unique place.(CCC#289).... but that Genesis is not to necessarily been taken literally, but "uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents. (CCC# 390).

This article is describing the teaching of 1965's Vatican II as if it was something new.... oh well, that is the "Times" for ya.

Instruction on the Historical Truth of the Gospels
I am truly sorry if you are offended by this thread, Scott - that was certainly not my intention when posting it; I genuinely wanted frank and honest appraisal.:)
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
No offense at all my friend.... I hope my reply helped clear up the issue raised by the article.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible
From this, it looks to me, That the UK's Catholic Bishops have taken this time to remind us of the earlier "vatican 11 words."
I would say very timely to, in view of all the biblical lileralism going around.

Terry______________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
From this, it looks to me, That the UK's Catholic Bishops have taken this time to remind us of the earlier "vatican 11 words."
I would say very timely to, in view of all the biblical lileralism going around.
I do believe that is exactly what they were attempting to do... the sensational title is what I took issue with.... just because the Bible is not to be taken literally in evey verse does not mean for a second that we doubt the "truth of the Bible."

To be clear, the Church teaches:

"The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God" (DV 24).

God is the author of Sacred Scripture because he inspired its human authors; he acts in them and by means of them. He thus gives assurance that their writings teach without error his saving truth (cf. DV 11).

(DV: Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation Dei Verbum)
 

wmam

Active Member
So if I am to understands this correctly........... His word being truth should be taken literally?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
wmam said:
So if I am to understands this correctly........... His word being truth should be taken literally?
It depends. We measure it through Holy Tradition.

``Victor
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
John Eastern said:
The church offers nothing but talk. Bring me your sick, I will heal them. Of course, the ego may run from its ending.
And what exactly does this have to do with the topic?

~Victor
 

wmam

Active Member
Victor said:
It depends. We measure it through Holy Tradition.

``Victor
<------Wondering why it need be measured by any tradition, especially that by man. Last I looked truth was truth and lie was lie. Now all of a sudden we don't know the difference? :confused:
 
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