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The Truth about Trinity

Samurai

Member
The early christians did not believe in the Trinity. According to history, In year 325 A.D the trinity was establish in the Council of Nicea. This means that the Trinity was established 325 years after Jesus died. Therefore the trinity was not approved by God. and It was not approved by Jesus (because Jesus didn’t live while the trinity was established). The word trinity does not exist in the bible, and the formulation of the Trinity is not mentioned in the bible neither. Therefore trinity is based on falsehood and has nothing to do with the original teachings of christianity. And it is obvious that christianity has become distorted.

Most christians believe that Jesus was the son of God. If Jesus was the son of God, then when does he become God? Because if someone is a son, then he one day must become a father. As we can see, the belief that Jesus was the son of God, is illogical and it is based on falsehood. God can not have a son. God is not a human being. Only a human being can have a son. If God had a son, then it would exist two Gods. And that would be illogical. Therefore, when Jesus is described as God’s son in the bible, it should not be understood literally. The word son, in the bible, most likely have a symbolic meaning. In the bible, other persons are also described as the sons of God. For example, David is described as the Son of God in the bible (See Psalms 2:7).

Many christians even go as far claiming that Jesus was God. They claim that Jesus was God reincarnated. If Jesus was God, then why did christians believe that he died? As we know, God is immortal. But human beings die. So since Jesus died he could not have been immortal. Ergo, Jesus was not God. If Jesus was God, then why did he prayed to God? Does a god need to pray to a god? That would be completely illogical and absurd. The reason why Jesus prayed to God, was because he was a human being and needed help and support from God. In the bible, it says that Jesus prayed to God (see Matthew 26:39, Matthew 26:42, Matthew 26:44 and Luke 5:16).

There is not a single verse in the bible, where it says that Jesus is God. The christians who claim that Jesus is God, has misunderstood the whole christian religion. And they have ignored the original teachings of christianity. All messengers that came before Jesus were humans. So it makes no sense when people claim that Jesus was more than a human. Noah, Abraham, Jakob, Isak, Josef, Moses, and Muhammed were only humans. So Jesus was just a human, just like all of the other messengers.
Many people wonder when the doctrine of the Trinity began for the first time in our history. There were many doctrines of the Trinity in the past. But most likely the doctrine of a trinity was established for the first time in ancient Babylon. According to historians, this civilization flourished around 5000 years ago. Here is a list of the trinity gods of different religions:

Babylon: King, Prince and Queen.
Egyptian religion: Osiris, Horus and Isis.
Indian religion: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
Phoenician: Baal, Ashtoreth and Tammuz.
Greek religion: Zeus, Apollo and Hera.
Roman religion: Jupiter, Mars and Venus.
Christianity: The Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit.

The Trinity is a pagan doctrine taken from other religions, which became a part of Christianity. Trinity does not belong to the original teachings of Christianity. Those who established the Trinity in the Council of Nicaea 325 A.D were most likely inspired by pagan religions. As i mentioned earlier, the Trinity was established 325 years after Jesus died. Therefore the trinity was not approved by God. And It was not approved by Jesus (because Jesus didn’t live when the doctrine trinity was established).

The Quran teaches us that there is only one God. And that trinity is based on falsehood.

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He has no wife? He created all things and He has knowledge of all things.
Quran 6:101.

As we can see from the verse above, only someone who has a wife, can have a son. Allah did not have a wife. Therefore Allah can not have a son. Only human beings can have a son.

The Jews said, ‘Ezra is the son of God,’ and the Christians said, ‘The Messiah is the son of God’: they said this with their own mouths, repeating what earlier disbelievers had said. May God confound them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30.

As we can see from the verse above, the Jews said that Ezra is the son of God. And the christians said that Jesus is the son of god. These beliefs are based on falshehood.

Jesus was not the son of God. Jesus was a prophet. Jesus was the son of mary. And this is confirmed by the Quran.

The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God. Quran 3:45.
 
Last edited:

Crandle

New Member
Hi,

I am slightly confused about the forum that this thread is on, it seems to discuss a completely Christian topic, in Islam DIR. That aside, the Trinity:

From what you have put here, and what I have heard from Christian and Muslims alike is a misunderstanding of the Trinity, I do not pretend myself to understand it, I merely wish to show some points where what you define as the Trinity is not what is in Christian doctrine, or what was defined in 325 AD, and has been updated since.

The reason for the Trinity doctrine, and the updates has nothing to do with changes in belief, but simply a model that better reflects what is discussed in the bible, simply to be truer to the original word of God. For the purpose of this thread discussing the nature of the Trinity it is required to accept that the Bible should be considered accurate.

The doctrine came from the need to have a consistent belief between Christian groups because what Jesus said and what is in the Bible can be confusing and to collate these into a model aids many people in understanding the belief. I want to stress it came from the Bible, and not the Bible from it, therefore what is the guiding rule is the Bible not the doctrine and the doctrine should be changed to conform to God. (I have more verses for each section, here are a few of them, there are also more logical steps in this that i have skipped). Here is an outline of facts that leads to the Trinity:

-ONE GOD
Galatians 3:20 "A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one."
There is none like God:
Exodus 8:10 "Moses replied, “It will be as you say, so that you may know there is no one like the LORD our God."
Most Christian take this and others to define a clear difference between Creator and Creation. i.e. God is the Creator, there is none like him, we are Created by him, and everything that is not God is created by god.

-JESUS IS GOD
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " - Jesus here is referred to as "the Word"
1 John 5:20 "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. "

-THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD
Acts 5:3-4 "Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” "
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. "

-THE FATHER IS GOD
1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. "
Ephesians 1:3 "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. "

-THE FATHER, THE SPIRIT AND JESUS ARE DISTINCT
Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, "

From these we have 5 points
-There is only 1 God
-Jesus is God
-The Holy Spirit is God
-The Father is God
-The Father, The Spirit and Jesus are Distinct

This is the exactly where the Trinity comes from,it was the early Church's attempt, and the current best model to represent, the Oneness of God in being and the three persons that make up God.

Therefore many of your claims make no sense
If Jesus is Creator God he is not the created son, but the characteristic/spiritual Son of God. If the Father did not create Jesus he is not the father of Jesus but characteristic/spiritual father. God is also all three at once, there is no reincarnation in Christianity, I have no idea where you heard that. Jesus prayed to the Father as follows their relational dynamic, the Father is the leader or the planner, Jesus displays here perfect submission to the Father.

All the similar types you have posted do not contain anything like the Trinity, and it does the Trinity harm to compare God in his complexities as a family of one religion or another. Everything in the Quran, as coming in after 570AD is a commentary on the belief held by the Christians of the time and therefore a complete rejection of the doctrine.
 

elmarna

Well-Known Member
SORRY TO TELL YOU THIS BUT
OSIRUS = the concept of thought & thinking
ISIS = the concept of feelings
Horus=the concept of the source of inspiration that emurges from osirus & isis union as the course of acton.
that has nothing to do with the trinity
HOPE I CLEARED UP YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING!
STAND UP STRAIGHT
FLY RIGHT
FORGE AHEAD TO A BETTER & BRIGHTER TOMORROW!
HORUS
 

Crandle

New Member
elmarna

Thanks for an example of nearly trinity, where one thing comes from the other two. In Christianity all are equal and are one, all are fully God the Creator. My understanding is that Osiris, Iris and Horus are not one. I dont intend to say the idea of three as one is unique, I merely wish to dispell some inaccuracies with understanding of the Trinity. If you think I have something wrong with the Trinity then please help so this thread can discover the truth about Trinity.
 

elmarna

Well-Known Member
Your point of veiw is not unwise.
I just wanted to make sure you were not misinformed.
there are many ways to support the trinity.[my father was a baptist minister]
It is all geared around the same theme you have described.
So I can say I would agree with your point of view.
 

*Deleted*

Member
There have been trinities in many traditions. I agree with Crandle on that. And elmarna. So it was not a new concept with Christianity, although has caused (and still does) many debates, discussion, etc., within Christianity.

Samurai, perhaps you meant to say that Jesus was described as an incarnation of God (rather than reincarnation)---reincarnation (as Crandle said is not in Christianity, but incarnation is.)

Elmarna--my father was a mainstream Presbyterian minister. Don't cha love it? :))) He's retired now, but always was progressive, very open-minded, and I'm glad for that:)
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
...The Jews said, ‘Ezra is the son of God,’ and the Christians said, ‘The Messiah is the son of God’: they said this with their own mouths, repeating what earlier disbelievers had said. May God confound them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30.

As we can see from the verse above, the Jews said that Ezra is the son of God. And the christians said that Jesus is the son of god. These beliefs are based on falshehood. ....
Not all Jews, in fact only some Jews, most notably one community in Yemen...

Was 'Uzayr (Ezra) Called The Son Of God?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The early christians did not believe in the Trinity. According to history, In year 325 A.D the trinity was establish in the Council of Nicea. This means that the Trinity was established 325 years after Jesus died. Therefore the trinity was not approved by God. and It was not approved by Jesus (because Jesus didn’t live while the trinity was established). The word trinity does not exist in the bible, and the formulation of the Trinity is not mentioned in the bible neither. Therefore trinity is based on falsehood and has nothing to do with the original teachings of christianity. And it is obvious that christianity has become distorted.

Most christians believe that Jesus was the son of God. If Jesus was the son of God, then when does he become God? Because if someone is a son, then he one day must become a father. As we can see, the belief that Jesus was the son of God, is illogical and it is based on falsehood. God can not have a son. God is not a human being. Only a human being can have a son. If God had a son, then it would exist two Gods. And that would be illogical. Therefore, when Jesus is described as God’s son in the bible, it should not be understood literally. The word son, in the bible, most likely have a symbolic meaning. In the bible, other persons are also described as the sons of God. For example, David is described as the Son of God in the bible (See Psalms 2:7).

Many christians even go as far claiming that Jesus was God. They claim that Jesus was God reincarnated. If Jesus was God, then why did christians believe that he died? As we know, God is immortal. But human beings die. So since Jesus died he could not have been immortal. Ergo, Jesus was not God. If Jesus was God, then why did he prayed to God? Does a god need to pray to a god? That would be completely illogical and absurd. The reason why Jesus prayed to God, was because he was a human being and needed help and support from God. In the bible, it says that Jesus prayed to God (see Matthew 26:39, Matthew 26:42, Matthew 26:44 and Luke 5:16).

There is not a single verse in the bible, where it says that Jesus is God. The christians who claim that Jesus is God, has misunderstood the whole christian religion. And they have ignored the original teachings of christianity. All messengers that came before Jesus were humans. So it makes no sense when people claim that Jesus was more than a human. Noah, Abraham, Jakob, Isak, Josef, Moses, and Muhammed were only humans. So Jesus was just a human, just like all of the other messengers.
Many people wonder when the doctrine of the Trinity began for the first time in our history. There were many doctrines of the Trinity in the past. But most likely the doctrine of a trinity was established for the first time in ancient Babylon. According to historians, this civilization flourished around 5000 years ago. Here is a list of the trinity gods of different religions:

Babylon: King, Prince and Queen.
Egyptian religion: Osiris, Horus and Isis.
Indian religion: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
Phoenician: Baal, Ashtoreth and Tammuz.
Greek religion: Zeus, Apollo and Hera.
Roman religion: Jupiter, Mars and Venus.
Christianity: The Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit.

The Trinity is a pagan doctrine taken from other religions, which became a part of Christianity. Trinity does not belong to the original teachings of Christianity. Those who established the Trinity in the Council of Nicaea 325 A.D were most likely inspired by pagan religions. As i mentioned earlier, the Trinity was established 325 years after Jesus died. Therefore the trinity was not approved by God. And It was not approved by Jesus (because Jesus didn’t live when the doctrine trinity was established).

The Quran teaches us that there is only one God. And that trinity is based on falsehood.

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He has no wife? He created all things and He has knowledge of all things.
Quran 6:101.

As we can see from the verse above, only someone who has a wife, can have a son. Allah did not have a wife. Therefore Allah can not have a son. Only human beings can have a son.

The Jews said, ‘Ezra is the son of God,’ and the Christians said, ‘The Messiah is the son of God’: they said this with their own mouths, repeating what earlier disbelievers had said. May God confound them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30.

As we can see from the verse above, the Jews said that Ezra is the son of God. And the christians said that Jesus is the son of god. These beliefs are based on falshehood.

Jesus was not the son of God. Jesus was a prophet. Jesus was the son of mary. And this is confirmed by the Quran.

The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God. Quran 3:45.
...Except that none of this constitutes "the truth about the Trinity...":facepalm:
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
A large proportion of Christians do believe in the Trinity .
A large proportion of Christians can not explain what they actually believe.
The Trinity as a belief is truly badly taught.

I suspect the reason for this is that few of us believe quite the same thing.
It is easier to hold a belief under the umbrella of "the Trinity" if it is somewhat open ended.

I prefer to leave the question open.
 

Twig pentagram

High Priest
I don't understand the trinity. It has no biblical support unless you say certain things mean something different from what they say.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) has nothing to do with the Christian trinity. However, we do have a concept that is a bit closer, that of Brahman, Paramatman, and Bhagavan. Brahman is the Absolute, Paramatman is the Universal Self, Bhagavan is Manifest God. This is a bit closer to the Christian Trinity, in that you could conceivably draw parallels. But I still don't really think they're the same concepts.
 
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