is god...

BruceDLimber · Jun 15, 2011

InChrist said:
[FONT=&quot]So we can call you Jim, Mike, Ray, Juan, Jose, Ahmed, Alberto, Chen, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Takahiro, or Demetrius....

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Wombat already pointed out the mistake you made here.

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The Bible is a book of prophecy. It contains about one thousand prophecies, about five hundred of which have already been fulfilled down to the minutest detail.

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And of course, what you overlook is that the rest of them have been fulfilled by the coming of the Baha'i Faith, which itself completed many Biblical prophecies, both Jewish and Christian!

You can see the details here:

Click on one of the following to navigate further down this page Religious Unity

Best!

Bruce

waitasec · Jun 15, 2011

Wombat said:
Yes, given the constraints surrounding "the truth about god" and yes in the context that our "understanding is slowly evolving" with assistance/guidance.

ok, then what is the purpose for gaining a deeper understanding if we are not to fully understand until we die (if you believe in the hereafter)?

and i'm interested as to what it is we know now about god that humans didn't know then?

Wombat · Jun 15, 2011

waitasec said:
ok, then what is the purpose for gaining a deeper understanding if we are not to fully understand until we die (if you believe in the hereafter)?

While we may well gain 'greater' understanding in the hereafter I don't believe we will ever "fully understand" God.

waitasec said:
and i'm interested as to what it is we know now about god that humans didn't know then?

Answer falls into two components- Spiritual law/understanding (Golden Rule) which does not change from age to age/faith to faith....but is often renewed re presented in different (more subtle and complex) form........and Social law which does change from age to age/faith to faith.

From my pov...what we know about God now that we didn't know then is that God deems us to (having passed through the adolescents of two world wars) now reached maturity and it is time to take responsibility for the household- earth.

We know about God is that God desires we recognise that we are One Planet and One People and that when the dross is stripped away there is only One Religion- the love of God reflected in love for each other.

InChrist · Jun 15, 2011

BruceDLimber said:
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Wombat already pointed out the mistake you made here.

[font=&quot]

And of course, what you overlook is that the rest of them have been fulfilled by the coming of the Baha'i Faith, which itself completed many Biblical prophecies, both Jewish and Christian!

You can see the details here:

Click on one of the following to navigate further down this page Religious Unity

Best!

Bruce

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the link, I read through quite a bit of it. A long time ago I used to read New Age books and other spiritual writings. I used to find the spiritualized language and enlightened sounding ideas interesting, but often never really made sense in a clear straightforward way. The articles on the link you provided do have some very common new age themes, especially concerning one world unity, the teaching that all religions have the same God or will become united, and the denial that Jesus Christ is unique in being the way, the truth, and the life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]The Bible clearly warns that these teachings are of the antichrist and many will believe them and accept the new world order under that leadership of a false Christ claiming to be an enlightened human who will bring peace to the earth. But instead of peace he brings ruthlessness and destruction.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Baha'is claim that the Bible speaks of Baha'u'llah, however, the only reference to Baha'u'llah in the Bible is an indirect one when Jesus and the apostles warned of the coming of false prophets and false Christs (Matt. 7:15-16; 2 Cor. 11:13-15). The messianic verses from the Bible cited by Baha'is as referring to Baha'u'llah, can not truly support their claim because, among other things, Baha'u'llah was of Iranian descent, where the Messiah was to be Jewish (Matthew 1; Genesis 12:1-3; II Samuel 7:12-13). Also, the New Testament repeatedly cites the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecies in the person of Jesus Christ (Matthew 1:1; 3:14; 8:17; Luke 1:31; Revelation 5:5). [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The second coming of Christ also can not refer to Baha'u'llah. Scripture indicates that the very same Jesus who ascended into heaven will one day personally return (Acts 1:9-11). The Bible also prophesies several dramatic and highly visible signs that will accompany the Second Coming (Matthew 24:29). None of these signs were present when Baha'u'llah arrived on the scene. He also didn't show up in the right place. Scripture clearly indicates that at the Second Coming the Messiah will come to Jerusalem and his feet will physically touch the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:4). Baha'u'llah never did this.”[/FONT]

Excerpt from:Baha'i Beliefs

[FONT=&quot]“The Baha'i faith has become a popular religion in an environment of ecumenism, inclusiveness and political correctness. Embraced eagerly by the United Nations and other interfaith organizations, Baha'i is a growing humanist influence on our world. There are currently 17,148 Local Spiritual Assemblies of the Baha'i faith in the world and 4,515 in the United States alone. Members claim a presence in 235 countries and their literature is translated into 700 languages with a total world membership estimated at 5,000,000. The following introduction is meant to be a brief overview Baha'i history, and is by no means an exhaustive history of Baha'i.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The popularity of Baha'i can largely be attributed to its attempts to unify all faiths, prophets and the entire human race. It embraces the humanist philosophy that all religions should be embraced equally because they are not contradictory and are merely successively updated versions of the same basic religious beliefs. They teach that all religions are the result of the same God and the differences stem only from the age in which they were revealed. They promote gender, racial, and economic equality; universal education; harmony between science and religion; balance between nature and technology; and the development of a world Federal system. Those who believe in absolute truths, such as those found in the Bible, are dismissed as intolerant and an obstacle to world peace.”[/FONT]

Baha'i

InChrist · Jun 15, 2011

Wombat said:
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[FONT=&quot]Um...no....Bruce did identify that in various 'languages' the name of God varies. If you wish to call Bruce other than Bruce you need to find the Bruce equivalent in another language...Brutas might suffice...but I don't know.[/FONT]

No...you're missing the point. The name 'Bruce' or the name of God may change from culture to culture/language to language...but that does not change the "identy" of someone called 'Bruce' or something called God (by various names).
[/font][/size] "everyones own opinion or interpretation of who you are" or who/what God is...is an entirely sepperate matter.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wide open to looking at the examples of the prophecies which have already been fulfilled if you would care to present some.[/FONT]

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Again...more than willing to look at "prophecies [that] have been meticulously, accurately fulfilled".

[/FONT]

Yes, you are correct the title God varies in different languages, but the God of the Bible has distinguished Himself from the generic title of God and Identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the OT and has revealed only one name in the NT

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil. 2:9-11

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:8-12

You are free to check out and research fulfilled Biblical prophecies if you are really interested:
100 fulfilled Bible prophecies
http://www.konig.org/page6.htm
Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible | Reasons To Believe

waitasec · Jun 15, 2011

Wombat said:
While we may well gain 'greater' understanding in the hereafter I don't believe we will ever "fully understand" God.

but what does this mean? if we cannot fully understand god, how do we know what we know is truth about god?

Answer falls into two components- Spiritual law/understanding (Golden Rule) which does not change from age to age/faith to faith....but is often renewed re presented in different (more subtle and complex) form........and Social law which does change from age to age/faith to faith.

seems quite interesting that the golden rule was based upon standards within the tribe of the jews to keep it alive and thriving....'united we stand divided we fall'
but it didn't apply to people of another tribe...unless of course they willingly wanted to belong to the jewish tribe.

From my pov...what we know about God now that we didn't know then is that God deems us to (having passed through the adolescents of two world wars) now reached maturity and it is time to take responsibility for the household- earth.
We know about God is that God desires we recognise that we are One Planet and One People and that when the dross is stripped away there is only One Religion- the love of God reflected in love for each other.

yet we live in a time where there are those who spend stupid money gambling in monte carlo in one afternoon that can be used to feed and provide for thousands of starving people... i don't think we've evolved that much...:sad:

Orias · Jun 15, 2011

waitasec said:
yet we live in a time where there are those who spend stupid money gambling in monte carlo in one afternoon that can be used to feed and provide for thousands of starving people... i don't think we've evolved that much...:sad:

Heh, I think a problem that is less personally stressed is the imposition of the "One true God".

This reminds me of a good old solid quote...

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."-Albert Einstein

I'd say the "One true God" is merely the word and precipitous feeling of wonderment you get while trying to comprehend such a being.

It is hardly the subsequent contemplations following the attempted comprehensions of such a being that defines "God".

Kind of a subtle parody ain't it? :bat:

Thief · Jun 15, 2011

Orias said:
Heh, I think a problem that is less personally stressed is the imposition of the "One true God".

This reminds me of a good old solid quote...

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."-Albert Einstein

I'd say the "One true God" is merely the word and precipitous feeling of wonderment you get while trying to comprehend such a being.

It is hardly the subsequent contemplations following the attempted comprehensions of such a being that defines "God".

Kind of a subtle parody ain't it? :bat:

Just wrote this for another thread....seems to fit here too

Obviously the resolve of any discussion is definition.
If your definition is flawed...change.it.

(You may have noticed....almost every discussion here at the forum is an effort to do exactly that.)

Someone had to be First.
No matter how you go about it...regression will take you to the First.

Can we then assume the First has the advantage?
He's been around for awhile.

If He has any control at all...greater than ours....He is the Almighty.

zenzero · Jun 15, 2011

Friend waitasec,

is god.....

Meditators in India never followed any religion as SANATANA DHARMA is only a way of life and meditators found through meditation that by going into the search with *God IS??* the answer is never found and so they went about by the concept "NETI, NETI" which means 'Is not, Is not".
What ever comes to mind, is not God. Finally when everything is discarded what remains is what God or Brahman IS!
Have mentioned in most of the 9000 plus posts that MIND itself is the problem and so mind will never give the proper answer when one wants to know about God. Mind needs to be transcended or STILLED to know/understand/realize what God IS!
Love & rgds

Orias · Jun 15, 2011

Thief said:
Obviously the resolve of any discussion is definition.

Well not necessarily...

Thief said:
Someone had to be First.
No matter how you go about it...regression will take you to the First.

Well of course, but this Aspect is conditioned to be seen as the entirety of existence, not just Man.

Thief said:
Can we then assume the First has the advantage?
He's been around for awhile.

The Second always receives the Original gifts, as they are observed through the manner of the First.

Thief said:
If He has any control at all...greater than ours....He is the Almighty.

You speak of death in such an ill manner.

Thief · Jun 15, 2011

waitasec said:
good question.

No it isn't.

God is spirit.

waitasec · Jun 15, 2011

Thief said:
No it isn't.

God is spirit.

how do you know?

Orias · Jun 15, 2011

Thief said:
No it isn't.

God is spirit.

What you don't believe in spiritual molecules?

Wombat · Jun 16, 2011

waitasec said:
but what does this mean? if we cannot fully understand god, how do we know what we know is truth about god?

In the same way that even though having been married for thirty years I do not/can not "fully understand" my wife....and yet there are things I believe/hold to be 'true' about her.

Likewise God-
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. God is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things" (Qur'an 6:103)[2]

waitasec said:
seems quite interesting that the golden rule was based upon standards within the tribe of the jews to keep it alive and thriving....'united we stand divided we fall'

I know nothing of the Golden Rule being "based upon standards within the tribe of the jews" reflecting-'united we stand divided we fall'.

The Golden Rule is variously expressed as-
BuddhismHurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
[SIZE=-1]Udana-Varga 5,1[/SIZE]HinduismThis is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
[SIZE=-1]Mahabharata 5,1517[/SIZE]IslamNo one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
[SIZE=-1]Sunnah[/SIZE]JudaismWhat is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
[SIZE=-1]Talmud, Shabbat 3id[/SIZE]

waitasec said:
yet we live in a time where there are those who spend stupid money gambling in monte carlo in one afternoon that can be used to feed and provide for thousands of starving people... i don't think we've evolved that much...:sad:

No doubt this is why someone had the Divine insight to forewarn us ages ago-

It is stated in the Qurân: They ask you regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major sin, and there is some benefit for men, but the sin of them is far greater than benefit
(Surah Baqarah)

If you wish to a/ignore what was put forward re what we know now that we didn't know then and b/employ the age old evil/waste of gambling as being reflective of not having "evolved that much".....

I can only suggest-
1/ Gambling would not be such a problem if greater portions of humanity had followed the prohibition articulated in the Quran way back then...

2/Religion (generally) has been a major force advocating against the greed/waste/ sin of gambling...

3/While many old/bad habbits die hard the case for our general moral/spiritual evolution can still be evidenced by the abolition of slavery, the emancipation of women and the fact that most of us can travel at will to most places unarmed.
Three major leaps forward.

We are evolving for the better....and the future remains so bright we will need shades-:beach:.

Wombat · Jun 16, 2011

InChrist said:
[FONT=&quot]The Bible clearly warns that these teachings are of the antichrist and many will believe them and accept the new world order under that leadership of a false Christ claiming to be an enlightened human who will bring peace to the earth. But instead of peace he brings ruthlessness and destruction.[/FONT]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh the Antichrist....what a handy Cameleon!

I am old enough to vividly recall the candidates that have been run with "The Bible clearly warns" just in the last fourty years...

First it was The Pope/Rome and every Evangelical new the dangers of Antichrist Popery!

Then it was the Godless Commie Pinkos Soviet/China/Cuba- Antichrists all!
(I even heard Evangelical Christians advocating oposition to the Peace Movement because it might deter the inevitable Nuclear Conflict that would bring about the End Times and the final conflict with the Antichrist)

Then it was Michael Jackson...
1,860,000 results "Is Michael Jackson the antichrist"

Then Michael Jackson knew who the antichrist was-
[youtube]V_tgezeySkU[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪MICHAEL JACKSON WARNS OF COMING satanic WORLD DOMINATION 2012 ILLUMINATI !!‬&rlm;

Then it got all rolled up together...
[youtube]LbDWZx_huVk[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Antichrist Activities and Michael Jackson's Funeral‬&rlm;

Then I gave up listening to such fruitloop theology :facepalm:

Thief · Jun 16, 2011

waitasec said:
how do you know?

Another poor question.

And you would consider God to be physical?

BruceDLimber · Jun 16, 2011

[FONT=&quot]

The second coming of Christ ... cannot refer to Baha'u'llah. Scripture indicates that the very same Jesus who ascended into heaven will one day personally return (Acts 1:9-11).

[/FONT]

What you overlook is that the First Coming didn't fulfill the exact prophecies of the Jewish scriptures, either! For example, the name was not Emmanuel, nor was the One who appeared any sort of king.

So the fact that the Second Coming isn't a literal fulfillment either isn't surprising:
These prophecies have spiritual significance, not literal!

InChrist said:
[FONT=&quot]The Bible clearly warns that [Baha'i] teachings are of the antichrist and many will believe them and accept the new world order under that leadership of a false Christ[/FONT]

Simply false!

The Bible also states:
First John 4:2 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God."

Which Baha'u'llah, Founder of the Baha'i Faith, clearly does state!

Thus, not everyone who appears is false.

Q. E. D..

Bruce

BruceDLimber · Jun 16, 2011

InChrist said:
[T]he God of the Bible has distinguished Himself from the generic title of God and Identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the OT and has revealed only one name in the NT.

Which of course quietly IGNORES the fact that Jesus repeatedly stressed that He was NOT God!

Bruce

waitasec · Jun 16, 2011

Wombat said:
In the same way that even though having been married for thirty years I do not/can not "fully understand" my wife....and yet there are things I believe/hold to be 'true' about her.

but the difference between you and your marriage of 30 yrs (congratz btw :balloons

to your wife is a mutual dynamic, a relationship that is based on give and take...you know her because you've empirically experienced her as another individual..god is experienced through a personal subjective bias...

Likewise God-
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. God is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things" (Qur'an 6:103)[2]

see this says that we cannot grasp god, but he can grasp us...
that doesn't answer the question; how do we know what we know is truth about god?

No doubt this is why someone had the Divine insight to forewarn us ages ago-

It is stated in the Qur’ân: “They ask you regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major sin, and there is some benefit for men, but the sin of them is far greater than benefit ”
(Surah Baqarah)

If you wish to a/ignore what was put forward re what we know now that we didn't know then and b/employ the age old evil/waste of gambling as being reflective of not having "evolved that much".....

I can only suggest-
1/ Gambling would not be such a problem if greater portions of humanity had followed the prohibition articulated in the Quran way back then...

2/Religion (generally) has been a major force advocating against the greed/waste/ sin of gambling...

3/While many old/bad habbits die hard the case for our general moral/spiritual evolution can still be evidenced by the abolition of slavery, the emancipation of women and the fact that most of us can travel at will to most places unarmed.
Three major leaps forward.

We are evolving for the better....and the future remains so bright we will need shades-:beach:.

it's more about the powers that be, than individuals...
so what is one to do when everything is made in china...and there is only a wal-mart to shop at...? ultimately buying products that are produced in sweat shops...

gambling is just a symptom of coveting (i'm not saying this applies to all who do)
gambling isn't the problem, the problem is found when we find out why people choose to do it.

waitasec · Jun 16, 2011

Thief said:
Another poor question.

how is that a poor question?

And you would consider God to be physical?

i said no such thing...how could i know?

is god...

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