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Is the Bible the absolute, infallible, Word of God?
- Thread starter JesusIsTheWay
- Start date
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Actually, the different versions sometimes represent the translation of different textual families. For example, the King James Version (KJV) is a translation of the Textus Receptus, which came from Jerome's compilation that birthed the Latin Vulgate. The New International Version is a translation of an entirely different compilation of New Testament manuscipts collected and prioritized by scholars who held to a different textual theory.Sanctified_by_Faith said:
There are 5,000 Greek manuscripts (MSS) of the NT, and no two of them are the same. There are another 10,000 Latin, Coptic, and Syraic manuscripts dating from the third century to the 17th century that are also considered. The MSS of the KJV is a translation of only ONE of the Greek codexes (of the 5,000 available), and it was by no means the earliest, and Jerome had to fill in many gaps with words from Latin versions. The NIV is loosely based on the USB4 (United Bible Society Greek NT, 4th ed) with priority given to other MSS from time to time as the interpreters and translators were convinced of the reliability of other MSS. Some tranlsations are based in the Nestle-Alland texts, and there are 27 editions of this collection today, and there are many other translations of different Greek versions.
So no, they are by no means translations of the same thing.
Sanctified_by_Faith
New Member
He did he just used man because we are suppose to be willing vessels unto God meaning that we will do what God wants us to do when he says!! Thats what they did!!They let God use them to write the books for the Bible!! You should know that considering the fact that you claim to be a Christian! Dont you read the Bible? Read 2 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 If you truely are a Christian then you should believe in the word of God and what the Bible says!! Because how then do you believe in Jesus and salvation if you dont think the word of God is infallible then how do you know that what the Bible says about salvation is true or not? In your way of thinking the ones who wrote the Bible could have messed up so what if they messed up with the plan of salvation through Christ?michel said:I agree; the only way that the Bible might have been infallible would have been if God himself had written it (Or Jesus Christ).
JesusIsTheWay
Member
Show me some evidence for that statement. (What Scriptures?)jonny said:
JesusIsTheWay
Member
Where do you get that? Little history lesson, when the OT was copied by Jews and one single error was found the whole thing was burned! If you don't believe me, do some accurate research.BruceDLimber said:
JesusIsTheWay
Member
Actually that was a teaching by Luther. Which happen to have been a couple hundred years after the councils in the 300's and 400's! This was not taught by Jesus or the 12 apostles.Scott1 said:
JesusIsTheWay
Member
Well, what does that have to do with the Bible being infallible?! How people interpret the Bible has nothing to do with it being infallible.
- David
Do you really think I would lie about that?JesusIsTheWay said:
Here are the scriptures:Acts 9:3-4,7 -> And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And the men which journeyed stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22:6-7,9 -> And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light around me. And I fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake unto me.
Acts 26:13-14 -> At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round aboutme and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tounge, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Ardent Listener
Active Member
Which Bible?
JesusIsTheWay
Member
Never said you would lie... wanted to look it up myself... The KJV (I'm assuming your using that) did not have the understanding of Greek, Hebrew, and such (I know the NT wasn't written in Hebrew) that we do today. And some of the words don't have the same meaning now as they did. So here is the NIV version:jonny said:Do you really think I would lie about that?
Acts 9:3-4,7 -> And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And the men which journeyed stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22:6-7,9 -> And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light around me. And I fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake unto me.
Acts 26:13-14 -> At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round aboutme and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tounge, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Acts 9:3-4,7-8 As he neared Damascus on his jouney, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?"... The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand to Damascus.
Acts 22:6-7,9,11 About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, "Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute Me?" ... My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me... My companions led me by the hand into Damascus, because the brilliance of the light had blinded me.
Acts 26:13-14 About noon, O king, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. We all fell to the ground and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you tokick against the goads."
heard the sound. Those with Saul "heard the sound" but "did not understand" what the voice was saying (22:9).
we all fell to the ground. When "we" would also include Saul.
Just because there is no mention of "we" in the first two accounts, doesn't mean the Bible is wrong. He is telling a little bit more detail to King Agrippa in the Acts 26 account if you read it all. The rest is basicly a shorter version, just as you might tell a shorter version of something that happened to you after telling it a lot of times. He is just revealing different parts of the story at different times. "We all fell to the ground" and "The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless" are the only things that are the least bit contradictory. I will research it further and thank you for pointing that out. Any other examples?
- David
JesusIsTheWay
Member
The Christian, Holy Bible.
Can you back that up with historical proof?
- David
greatcalgarian
Well-Known Member
There is another thread that questioned whether Jesus can read or write:banghead3 , and why not a single word was written down by him, and only orally transmitted and later after tens or one or two hundred years then only written down as the four gospels.michel said:I agree; the only way that the Bible might have been infallible would have been if God himself had written it (Or Jesus Christ).
The only words God has written is perhaps those two tablets that Moses first received from Him, and in anger broke them, and hence nothing from that encountered has been left behind.
Then Jesus also wrote something on the sand, but those were not preserved.
So, it is pretty difficult if you want to find the actual written word by Christian God(s) in the form of the holy scripture.
greatcalgarian
Well-Known Member
This subject has been debated many times before, we may be re-inventing the wheels....
For example:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/emmett_fields/word_of_god_debate.html
or
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/
or
http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/
Which Bible?
The Holy Bible
There will be no common ground or understanding for any debate. Because we do not know which 'Holy Bible' now, we have to see whether it is the Jewish bible, the first OT completed in around BC 600, or the OT+NT of the Christian around AD 400, the Greek version, the Latin version, the Catholic version, the Orthodox version, the Lutheran version etc.
Let us agreed with the definition of Bible first, before we proceed to discuss whether that is the infallible word from God.
If not we shall be going around in circles.
For example:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/emmett_fields/word_of_god_debate.html
or
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/
or
http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/
Which Bible?
The Holy Bible
There will be no common ground or understanding for any debate. Because we do not know which 'Holy Bible' now, we have to see whether it is the Jewish bible, the first OT completed in around BC 600, or the OT+NT of the Christian around AD 400, the Greek version, the Latin version, the Catholic version, the Orthodox version, the Lutheran version etc.
Let us agreed with the definition of Bible first, before we proceed to discuss whether that is the infallible word from God.
If not we shall be going around in circles.
