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Who is the father of Joseph?

C

criticizer

Member
How are you the all ?

I want the answer for my question, that I found a contradiction in the bible, about the father of Joseph.

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I am not sure it is important .
It is the sort of detail any writer could get wrong,especially when he may not have had access to written records.
Terry_________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 
C

criticizer

Member
how are you Terry?

but I know that the christians believe that all the bible is the words of the god,
and how the god make mistakes ?
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I am not one of those Christians who believe the Bible contains no errors. Many groups of Christians especially in America do believe that.
To me any thing written down by man can have errors.
For instance most christians do not give equal importance to the old and new testament. though there are some that do.
For me the example and teachings and Love of Jesus, that are paramountin the Bible.
It is the essence of the Bible that is so important, not just words.
Christianity is a Faith based on Gods Love and the teachings of Christ.
Terry____________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 
Aqualung

Aqualung

Tasty
Heli was his father. I don't know if he was just called Jacob, or if Heli is Jacob in a different language.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
The Greek word used here - egenneise, can mean more than one thing. Often the Jews spoke of relatives (even distant) as being begat by their ancestors, despite having other literal parents. There can be no perfect lineage derived from these lists because we don't know when the begetting is literal and when it is not. In Hebrew the word ben can mean "son" or "descendent." It is a common problem when trying to tie down lineage.
 
C

criticizer

Member
Hi

I want to correct some mistakes :

That the word "begat" maybe indicate to the ansectors not to the son !!!
Click to expand...
I mean that the word "begat" maybe indicate to the ancestors not to the father !!!
 
M

Merlin

Active Member
criticizer said:
How are you the all ?

I want the answer for my question, that I found a contradiction in the bible, about the father of Joseph.

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Click to expand...
Why does it matter?

We have already had quite a long discussion about the fact that Joseph's lineage is completely unimportant, as he was not related to Jesus. According to the virgin birth story, Jesus was legally illegitimate and grew up in Joseph's house with him as his stepfather.

Of course, if it wasn't a virgin birth (which some believe), then it is a different story.
 
M

Merlin

Active Member
criticizer said:
Hi all

But I heard that the christians considred the bible the words of the God ! and how the God make a mistake
Click to expand...
There are two answers. Firstly, there are Christians and there are Christians. There is no standard definition of belief, sadly, amongst this faith system.

secondly, it is generally accepted that the Bible is a complex document written over around 2000 years, heavily edited, and passed down from word-of-mouth for probably the first thousand years. It is not like an engineering manual. It is a lifetime study and puzzle. You will only solve the puzzle if you really want to.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
criticizer said:
Hi
How are you ?
About what you said dan, your saying will make me sometimes and somwhere to doubt about the word begat, like :
Mat 1:4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
That the word "begat" maybe indicate to the ansectors not to the son !!!
Click to expand...
I am well, thank you; and you're right, there's no way to know if it means ancestor or son.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
criticizer said:
Hi
I want to correct some mistakes :

I mean that the word "begat" maybe indicate to the ancestors not to the father !!!
Click to expand...
It could go in that direction.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
Merlin said:
Why does it matter?

We have already had quite a long discussion about the fact that Joseph's lineage is completely unimportant, as he was not related to Jesus. According to the virgin birth story, Jesus was legally illegitimate and grew up in Joseph's house with him as his stepfather.

Of course, if it wasn't a virgin birth (which some believe), then it is a different story.
Click to expand...
I already explained to you that Jewish custom and law viewed Christ as Joseph's son, irrespective of the events surrounding His birth. He was not "legally illegitimate" as you baselessly assert here. You only say that because you don't want to believe what I told you. You don't even have any evidence at all concerning how Jewish law viewed the situation.
 
C

criticizer

Member
It could go in that direction.
Click to expand...
But this maybe make a problems in the bible, and make the all to doubt, and maybe in sometimes and somwhere change all the meaning ?


If I increase my questions and this annoy someone please say to me that, to stop my questions ... please and please ...
 
M

Merlin

Active Member
dan said:
don't even have any evidence at all concerning how Jewish law viewed the situation.
Click to expand...
It is not true actually. Despite being a Christian, the guy who originally financed our business was Jewish, and I have had him as a friend for 30 years. We have had many intelligent discussions, including with lots of his friends. I read all religious literature that comes to hand, as comparative religion is a great interest of mine.

I can promise you that Jewish people consider blood ties extremely important. In fact of paramount importance.

I started this thread to examine why Matthew would invent a long lineage to Joseph, when Joseph was not related to Jesus. If blood ties are not important, why is it important to most Christians that Mary was inseminated by God. Obviously, this is to establish that Jesus is directly blood related to God. According to your contention, that is irrelevant.
 
H

harold e. rice

Member
The two different genealogies found in Matthew and Luke is complete nonsense. There are only 3 names common with both list and they were basically produced by these unknown authors to tie Yeshua/Jesus to the throne of King David.

Many religious scholars realized that there was a problem with the two different genealogies and therefore decided to plant the present idea that Matthew traces Yeshua’s lineage to David through Joseph and Luke’s traces the lineage through Mary. The truth is that these unknown writers’ picked-out names in the Old Testament to put these make believe list together. There is no truth to the list of names because DNA teaches us that you can’t trace a lineage through a stepfather.

 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I don't believe there is an aswer that anyone can give with any conviction; I am with Terry on this one; does it matter ?
 
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