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Judgment Day vs. the Rapture

P

PVE1

Member
Hey all,
Apparently, a lot of people believe that the rapture and judgment day are the same thing. I have always thought that there was a difference between the two. I was under the assumption that the "rapture" was a relatively new concept (as in the 1800s or so) with the idea that only Christians will be brought into Heaven. As for Judgment Day, I believe is separation of the righteous from the unrighteous according to deeds (which matches with what the Gospels say). Any other takes on this?
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
PVE1 said:
Hey all,
Click to expand...
PVE1 said:
Apparently, a lot of people believe that the rapture and judgment day are the same thing. I have always thought that there was a difference between the two.
Click to expand...


There's a HUGE difference between these!!

For starters, the Baha'i scriptures define Judgement Day as the period whan a new Divine Messenger is on earth, and everyone has the choice of whether or not to accept and follow Him (thus in effect "judging" him- or herself).

As to the so-called "rapture," not only does this word never exist in the Bible, but the ENTIRE DOCTRINE is based on the interpretation of a vague Bible verse that may well mean something completely different!

And more, the various detailed "extensions" of the "rapture" interpretation--each different and each incompatible with the rest--are PURE SUPERSTITION with no Biblical basis whatever!!

Just the facts.

Peace, :)

Bruce
 
G

Greyn

South of Providence
Yeah, they are different and some interesting interpretation to the whole rapture idea. But, why let that stop some people making an entire marketing empire from the possibility.
 
Sultan Of Swing

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
PVE1 said:
Hey all,
Apparently, a lot of people believe that the rapture and judgment day are the same thing. I have always thought that there was a difference between the two. I was under the assumption that the "rapture" was a relatively new concept (as in the 1800s or so) with the idea that only Christians will be brought into Heaven. As for Judgment Day, I believe is separation of the righteous from the unrighteous according to deeds (which matches with what the Gospels say). Any other takes on this?
Click to expand...
The Bible speaks of (in Revelation) the "first resurrection". Many Christians attribute this to the rapture. The first resurrection will be of all the believers, who will ascend to God. Then, at Judgement Day, the "second resurrection" will occur, where all of those who have died will be resurrected. Those in the Book of Life (the believers and anyone that repents after being resurrected) will be granted access to heaven. Those who are not will face judgement and be cast into the lake of fire if deemed unworthy by God.
 
Comicaze247

Comicaze247

See the previous line
Raptures were carnivorous dinosaurs that hunted in packs.

THE Rapture is the second coming of the holy pack that will eat the true believers and take them to heaven, leaving their stuff behind for everyone else to take.

Too bad. I was really looking forward to the looting.
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Sultan Of Swing said:
The first resurrection ... the "second resurrection" ...
Click to expand...
The Baha'i Faith views the First Resurrection as recognition of Christ and the First Death as failure to do so; and similarly, views the Second Resurrection and Death as recognition and non-recognition of Baha'u'llah, Founder of the Baha'i Faith.

Peace, :)

Bruce
 
Sultan Of Swing

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
BruceDLimber said:
The Baha'i Faith views the First Resurrection as recognition of Christ and the First Death as failure to do so; and similarly, views the Second Resurrection and Death as recognition and non-recognition of Baha'u'llah, Founder of the Baha'i Faith.

Peace, :)

Bruce
Click to expand...
So, Christ plays quite a large role in the Baha'i faith in order for this to be true? In fact, surely He is even more important than the other religions you claim to incorporate, seeing as the "First Resurrection" is based on belief in Christ, whereas there is nothing that suggest belief in Mohammed, Krishna or any other God will get you to heaven. People can only attain the "first resurrection" through Christ. I never knew this. Baha'i is starting to sound like a very dilute and cultured form of Christianity mixed with many other beliefs.
 
P

PVE1

Member
Sultan Of Swing said:
So, Christ plays quite a large role in the Baha'i faith in order for this to be true? In fact, surely He is even more important than the other religions you claim to incorporate, seeing as the "First Resurrection" is based on belief in Christ, whereas there is nothing that suggest belief in Mohammed, Krishna or any other God will get you to heaven. People can only attain the "first resurrection" through Christ. I never knew this. Baha'i is starting to sound like a very dilute and cultured form of Christianity mixed with many other beliefs.
Click to expand...

I think Baha'i is more of a "dilute" Islam mixed with many other beliefs, mostly Christianity but not nearly as much as Islam.
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Sultan Of Swing said:
So, Christ plays quite a large role in the Baha'i faith in order for this to be true? In fact, surely He is even more important than the other religions you claim to incorporate, seeing as the "First Resurrection" is based on belief in Christ, whereas there is nothing that suggest belief in Mohammed, Krishna or any other God will get you to heaven. People can only attain the "first resurrection" through Christ. I never knew this. Baha'i is starting to sound like a very dilute and cultured form of Christianity mixed with many other beliefs.
Click to expand...
Well, based on the Baha'i Scriptures, the Day of Resurrection is any time a Manifestation of God appears and renews the Faith of God, and that has been happening every about a 1000 years on average. Thus, Day of Resurrection is not limited to the Day of Manifestation of Jesus or Baha'u'llah, but also Moses, Abraham, Krishna and Muhammad and those in the future.

Regarding to the first resurrection mentioned in the chapter of Revelation, I don't think there is any official Baha'i Scripture that mentions which resurrection was intended (or at least I am not aware).

But here are some facts:

In Revelation 20:4 it makes a reference to "the witness of Jesus". Muhammad was addressed in Quran by God as "the Witness".

Also in Rev. 11:3 it says:
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three-score days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Abdul-Baha in his Book "Some answered questions" confirms that:

"These two witnesses are Muhammad the Messenger of God, and ‘Alí, son of Abú Tálib."

Also "a thousand two hundred and three-score days" corresponds to 1260 years. and year 1260 (in Islamic calendar) corresponds to the year 1844, which is the Birth of Baha'i Faith.

It's interesting to know that in year 1844, a group of Christians were expecting the Second coming of Jesus (see Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment)

Further, the duration of Islam until the Birth of the Baha'i Faith is 1000 years. Quran also describes that the Resurrection would appear 1000 years after Islam.
According to Bible, Rev. 20:6 also, from the first resurrection to the next one is 1000 years.
 
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BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Sultan Of Swing said:
So, Christ plays quite a large role in the Baha'i faith in order for this to be true? In fact, surely He is even more important than the other religions you claim to incorporate....
Click to expand...
Not so!

I was addressing this from a specifically Christian viewpoint as the Book of Revelation was being addressed.

And in any case, I quote the Baha'i scriptures:

"{161}t is evident ...that the Bearers of the trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Bearers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the Celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they therefore are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness. These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attribute, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: 'No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers!' For they one and all summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the Unity of God, and herald unto them the [river] of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of Prophethood, and honoured with the mantle of glory....These Countenances are the recipients of the Divine Command, and the day-springs of His Revelation. This Revelation is exalted above the veils of plurality and the exigencies of number. Thus He saith: 'Our Cause is but one.' Inasmuch as the Cause is one and the same, the Exponents thereof also must needs be one and the same...

"{162}It is clear and evident ... that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendour. Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: 'I am the return of all the Prophets,' He verily speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact..."
--The Book of Certitude, pp. 152ff

Baha'i is starting to sound like a very dilute and cultured form of Christianity mixed with many other beliefs.
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Not really, no, because the Baha'i Faith is based on ITS OWN scriptures, which amount to fully 200 volumes!

(And PVE, Islam plays no greater part than the other great religions; it just happens to be the religion two before the Baha'i Faith whereas Christianity is three earlier.)

Peace, :)

Bruce
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
BruceDLimber said:
Nope.

It's a thousand years from the Twelfth Imam (centuries after Muhammad) until the beginning of the Baha'i Era.

The duration of Islam itself was, as stated, 1260 years!

Peace, :)

Bruce
Click to expand...

I agree. I basically meant the same thing.
The flow of guidance of Islam was 260 years and 1000 years after that was the Day of Resurrection, that is the appearance of the Promised One, the Bab.
 
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