Jesus drank alcohol

Aqualung · Oct 6, 2005

Merlin said:
It would never occurred to me to challenge your belief.

And I never said that you were challenging my beleif.

You asked christian girl to tell you why she thought drinking was a sin. because you don't think it's in the bible. I was just saying that I have more than the bible. I didn't think you were challenging me at all. I was just saying. That's why I put a smily face instead of the boxing guy after it.

Merlin · Oct 6, 2005

Aqualung said:
And I never said that you were challenging my beleif. You asked christian girl to tell you why she thought drinking was a sin. because you don't think it's in the bible. I was just saying that I have more than the bible. I didn't think you were challenging me at all. I was just saying. That's why I put a smily face instead of the boxing guy after it.

Sorry for misunderstanding you. I am afraid I do forget about the book of Mormon, even though I own one and have read it.

Aqualung · Oct 6, 2005

That's okay.

may · Oct 6, 2005

dan said:
Where is this indicated?

(1 Corinthians 10:31) Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for Gods glory

And wine that makes the heart of mortal man rejoice..psalm 104;15

Go, eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart, because already the [true] God has found pleasure in your works.......ecclesiastes 9;7 but would it be to Gods glory if we over did it with food and drink no it wouldnt....moderation in all things

the Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners. All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works...matthew 11;9 yes Jesus used moderation in all things

(Luke 5:30) At this the Pharisees and their scribes began murmuring to his disciples, saying: "Why is it YOU eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?"

(Luke 7:34) The Son of man has come eating and drinking, but YOU say, Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!

(Luke 15:2) Consequently both the Pharisees and the scribes kept muttering, saying: "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

(Luke 19:7) But when they saw [it], they all fell to muttering, saying: "With a man that is a sinner he went in to lodge......... why did they say these things if Jesus did not drink acholic wine ? so he had a drink , good for him , but he never went over the top because he always brought glory to his father Jehovah in what ever he did

may · Oct 6, 2005

dan said:
The JayDub translation seems pretty clear on the fact that they were sloshed.

When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: "They have no wine....John 2;3 i dont think she would have asked Jesus for more wine if they were sloshed it seems to me they had ran short

Merlin · Oct 6, 2005

dan said:
You assert that it was alcoholic. How do you arrive at this conclusion?

Mt 9:17 Neither is new wine put into old wineskins; if it is, the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins are destroyed; but new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved."

The reason new wine would burst the old goatskin bottles is that it is still fermenting alcohol. This is a chemical process that gives off quite a lot of gas. QED

may · Oct 6, 2005

Merlin said:
Who says so?

You have a strange view of sin.

Does anyone agree that a married couple enjoying one glass of wine a day with their evening meal is a sin?

no it is not a sin, we enjoy a glass over a meal and rejoice in it as a gift from Jehovah God ....it is the ecxesses with wine that is a sin
For the time that has passed by is sufficient for YOU to have worked out the will of the nations when YOU proceeded in deeds of loose conduct, lusts, excesses with wine, revelries, drinking matches, and illegal idolatries........ 1 peter 4;3 excesses is not moderation its over doing it ,as we see happens with those who do not listen to wise counsel in the bible .so i would say go ahead , Jesus did....slerp slerp

michel · Oct 6, 2005

may said:
no it is not a sin, we enjoy a glass over a meal and rejoice in it as a gift from Jehovah God ....it is the ecxesses with wine that is a sin
For the time that has passed by is sufficient for YOU to have worked out the will of the nations when YOU proceeded in deeds of loose conduct, lusts, excesses with wine, revelries, drinking matches, and illegal idolatries........ 1 peter 4;3 excesses is not moderation its over doing it ,as we see happens with those who do not listen to wise counsel in the bible .so i would say go ahead , Jesus did....slerp slerp

That is a good point may (That the excess is a sin); even if it wasn't a sin, we all know that any excesses are not 'good' for us, mentally, physically - or spiritually.:bounce

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

Also, as one of your other contributors has acknowledged, alcohol was the safest drink, even a short a time ago as 200 years. Even children would be given beer rather than poluted water.

Facts are against you, sorry.

Yes, I believe we have seen that God allowed very sick people to drink wine. But today. there is no reason for that because we are so much more scientifically and medically advanced.

And I would prefer polluted water over beer.

And just because some people were giving their five year olds beer doesn't make it right.

Aqualung · Oct 6, 2005

Christiangirl0909 said:
Yes, I believe we have seen that God allowed very sick people to drink wine. But today. there is no reason for that because we are so much more scientifically and medically advanced.

And I would prefer polluted water over beer.

And just because some people were giving their five year olds beer doesn't make it right.

I would prefer beer to regular water!

but I try to curb my desires to fit my religion (not my religion to fit my desires)

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

Because non alcoholic wine was barely possible in those days.

I'm afraid I would have to disagree.

The ancient people were not as simple as we might think. We are often arrogant enough to believe that simple processes like preserving juice in an unfermented state have only become possible because of our modern brain power. However, let us keep in mind that the ancients accomplished feats we still wonder how they dide.g. Stonehenge, pyramids, etc.

Consider the following quotes from ancient literature.

If you wish to have must (i.e., grape juice) all year put grape juice in an amphora and seal the cork with pitch: sink it in a fishpond. After 30 days take it out. It will be grape juice for a whole year. (De Agri Cultura CXX, Marcus Porcius Cato the elder who lived from 234-149 B.C.; quoted from Sipping Saints by Rick Lanning and also The Bible, The Saint, and The Liquor Industry by Jim McGuiggan). Thus juice could be kept from fermenting if sealed and kept below a certain temperature which immobilizes the yeast from fermenting.

Pliny who lived from AD 61-113 said, The most useful wine has all its force or strength broken by the filter. And Plutarch who lived from AD 46-120said, Wine is rendered old or feeble in strength when it is frequently filtered. The strength or spirit being thus excluded, the wine neither inflames the brain nor infests the mind and the passions, and is much more pleasant to drink (From the same sources as above). This filtering referred to a process by which the yeast would be removed and thus not allow fermentation.

Have you heard someone who argues vehemently against consuming alcohol claim it is lawful to cook with? Of course. Why? Because the alcohol cooks out. Alcohol has a lower boiling point than water. When boiled, the alcohol in fermented wine will cook out just as it cooks out of the vanilla you add to your cake recipes. Virgil who lived from 70 to 19 BC wrote, Meanwhile his spouse, over the fire boils down the liquor of the luscious must, and skims with leaves the tide of the trembling cauldron (quoted from The Bible, The Saint, and The Liquor Industry, p 45). After the wine was boiled down it became pasty and thick like honey. It was a concentrate and to be drunk it had to be mixed with water.

-- From

http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2005/htm/20050814AM.htm

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

Who says so?

You have a strange view of sin.

Well, let's see...GOD. Maybe if you read a few of my posts, none of this would be so confusing to you.

I would appreciate it if you would stop running in circles. You're wrong, and you know it.

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

no it is not a sin, we enjoy a glass over a meal and rejoice in it as a gift from Jehovah God ....it is the ecxesses with wine that is a sin

Yes, it is a sin. Perhaps you, like Merlin, should go over my previous posts. If you would care to debate what is in those posts, rather than say the same thing over again without any proof, I would suggest that you get started.

so i would say go ahead , Jesus did....slerp slerp

Prove it.

Apriori · Oct 6, 2005

In view of this thread "Things the Bible does not say"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21235&page=1&pp=10

Does the Bible say "Do not consume alcoholic beverages"?

I would like to share my approach to Bible study:
The approach to Bible study is as follows:

God handed down to humanity an extraterrestrial mystical message from outside our space and time.
God knows what he said, when he said it, who he said it to and the affect it would have on humanity then and through the end of time. As much as is possible, so should we.
Always try to be aware of our own presuppositions and test them with the Scriptures. (example: the belief salvation can or cannot be lost)
God does not need our help in redefining or adding to His word as if He were an incompetent communicator.
God says what he means and means what He says.

Let us be sure to judge our presuppositions by the Scriptures and not the Scriptures by our presuppositions. You can see clear divisions in this discussion thread by people's presupposions on sin and if they think drinking alcohol is a sin. Of course if you feel drinking alcohol is a sin they you cringe at the thought of Jesus drinking alcohol and sinning.

Merlin · Oct 6, 2005

Christiangirl0909 said:
Well, let's see...GOD. Maybe if you read a few of my posts, none of this would be so confusing to you.

I would appreciate it if you would stop running in circles. You're wrong, and you know it.

How come we run in circles, and you are perfect, and correct. Facts do not seem to matter to you.

nutshell · Oct 6, 2005

What about modern day revelation or the fact that God has flip flopped before? My Church currently believes drinking alcohol is a sin. This wasn't around during Christ's time so him drinking was not sinning. It's a modern revelation that was needed for our time, not theirs.

In the old testament, God says, "Thou shalt not kill." Later, he's sending the Israelites to war and telling them to destroy everying.

Jesus drinking alcohol is not a bid deal because God gives us instruction as to what we should or should not be doing depending on the situation of the time.

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

How come we run in circles, and you are perfect, and correct. Facts do not seem to matter to you.

Which facts are you talking about? It seems that I could say the same for you. If you have evidance, please, do present it.

I am not perfect, but I do believe I am correct in this matter. In any case, you have not presented any real arguments on my points.

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

In the old testament, God says, "Thou shalt not kill." Later, he's sending the Israelites to war and telling them to destroy everying.

God actually said "Thou shalt not murder." There is a differance between killing and murdering.

Jesus drinking alcohol is not a bid deal because God gives us instruction as to what we should or should not be doing depending on the situation of the time.

Please expand upon this thought. It sounds very interesting.

Aqualung · Oct 6, 2005

Christiangirl0909 said:
God actually said "Thou shalt not murder." There is a differance between killing and murdering.

Well, that all depends on which translation you're using.

Lindsey-Loo · Oct 6, 2005

Well, that all depends on which translation you're using.

Oh. Ok. That's new to me!

Jesus drank alcohol

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