DO U SAY JESUS IS "GOD" (IF U SAY SO THEN BIBLE DISAGREE WITH U)

Ronald · Oct 4, 2005

Isn't it strange that God said I am one, you shall no other gods, no graven images, of anything!
The reiterate besides Himself there is no othe God! Idol worship was not allowed, was the worst thing you could do.
He promised a savior all the way back at the garden. This savior would be a man, someone sent by God and annointed by God to be the restorer of all things.
Idol worship has been one of the most prevalent causes of separation of Israel and God.

It is really strange that He (God) would then promote the idea that He is NOT one, not two, but THREE! If you don't believe in a trinity you can't be Christian!

What else? That is all you can't be, if you believe just what the bible says, you are saved, you get all the benefits that the Christian claims, not one thing is withheld from those who do not share the trinitarian's over the line beliefs.

How about this? False teaching is frowned upon by the bible! Isn't there something about being least in the kingdom? WOW! What a goal! I don't think I would try for that one. But you may strive to be least if you wish.

EnhancedSpirit · Oct 4, 2005

Melody said:
ES,
I think we're reading different bibles.

I study all bibles, and all holy scriptures. I look for a pattern, and that is what I call truth.

world nonpotent · Oct 4, 2005

I believe

, it takes a Leap of faith, and the speculative wonders happen as well.

Deut 13:1 · Oct 6, 2005

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
quick question. Why do you spell it like that? G-d? Thanks

Respect is the short answer.

Longer answer is we don't write Hashem's name down on something that can be lost or trashed. It's a holy name, treat it with respect. For example, on a piece of a paper I won't write Hashem's name down. In a prayer book, it has His name because it's not going to be disregarded lightly or trashed or knocked over. It's considered Holy, so we treat Him with the holy respect He deserves.

TashaN · Oct 6, 2005

Binyamin said:
Respect is the short answer.

Longer answer is we don't write Hashem's name down on something that can be lost or trashed. It's a holy name, treat it with respect. For example, on a piece of a paper I won't write Hashem's name down. In a prayer book, it has His name because it's not going to be disregarded lightly or trashed or knocked over. It's considered Holy, so we treat Him with the holy respect He deserves.

So, in order to respect it you do not call him perfectly and you made that shortage in his name?

by the way, Did Hashem called himself God or only english people did so "translation"?

Deut 13:1 · Oct 6, 2005

The Truth said:
So, in order to respect it you do not call him perfectly and you made that shortage in his name?

More like we don't like to use his name in vain. Weather that be writing it down and throwing the paper out, saying G-d and then Damnit, ect...

The Truth said:
by the way, Did Hashem called himself God or only english people did so "translation"?

Hashem has several names in the bible.

michel · Oct 6, 2005

Ronald said:
It is really strange that He (God) would then promote the idea that He is NOT one, not two, but THREE! If you don't believe in a trinity you can't be Christian!

"If you don't believe in a trinity you can't be Christian!" - I don't believe that is true; the trinity (as far as I am aware) is not a concept that is a must for Christians.

As it happens, I do believe in it, and am prepared to try and explain it (I am getting some good excercise at this!

) . We cannot describe God; there is no point in trying. What we can understand though, through Jesus Christ, is that God is Love, God is everything that represents the good in anyone. One of the concepts people have a problem is "We were created in his image, therefore he looks like a man" - that I believe, is a misunderstanding; personally, by "In his own image", I understand 'in spirit' - we are given the potential and the ability to do good, to heal, to Love, and to forgive.

That is why we are here; to take up those challenges and deal with them through the dreadful day to day misery and temptations of this world. Those who get through this 'mess' believing in Jesus Christ, in God, have been baptized into the Christian faith (For a Christian - let me make that clear), and accept that God will ultimately forgive us our sins, as long as we have repented them, and honestly tried to resist future 'mistakes' of the same kind, will be reborn in Heaven.

The trinity ? That, to me goes back again to the deascription of God; God is Spirit - imagine a large nebulous 'shape' that shifts, and chages, that can represent itself in many ways. Imagine a bit of that spirit 'detaching itself' from the bulk, taking human form, and being incarnated here on earth, as Jesus Christ.

We know Jesus Christ was here to tell us how to live, and how to 'earn' salvation; when he died, that spirit portion returned to the 'mass' of God, becoming one again, with that mass.

The trinity represents the three facets of God, that of the Father, the son, and the Holy ghost.

Does that help ?

I will ask Scott, as he is one of our Christian 'Experts' here to view this post; I am only new to Christianity, and need to know that I am on the 'right track' here..........if I am not, Please someone put me right!!:biglaugh:

Edit: I have just realized that although this was my way of queerying the title of this thread ie " DO U SAY JESUS IS "GOD" (IF U SAY SO THEN BIBLE DISAGREE WITH U " in that I hope I have given my explanation on why I do think Jesus Christ is God, and that I see nothing in the bible to disagree with that belief.

ThisShouldMakeSense · Oct 6, 2005

Binyamin said:
Respect is the short answer.

Longer answer is we don't write Hashem's name down on something that can be lost or trashed. It's a holy name, treat it with respect. For example, on a piece of a paper I won't write Hashem's name down. In a prayer book, it has His name because it's not going to be disregarded lightly or trashed or knocked over. It's considered Holy, so we treat Him with the holy respect He deserves.

But it's not his name, it's a title. Just like sir and Mr. do you know what his real name actually is, or consists of?

ThisShouldMakeSense · Oct 6, 2005

Binyamin said:
More like we don't like to use his name in vain. Weather that be writing it down and throwing the paper out, saying G-d and then Damnit, ect...

Hashem has several names in the bible.

how would you be using it in vain, if you were simply using it in conversation? if you don't slander it, then you won't be direspecting it.
The ten comandments list God's name. there was no suggestion of replacing it with a title.
The ancient isrealites used God's personal name and so did Jesus. it was jewish superstition that replaced it with a title. by doing that they have hidden his name from the world. Jesus said that he made God's name known and told us to pray for it to be hallowed or sanctified, set abouve all other names. How is this possible if people don't know what it is?
Psalm 83:18 says that it it is YHVH that is the most high in all the earth.

I also believe that if it wasn't for this fact, people wouldn't have as much difficulty in telling the difference between YHVH/Yaweh/Jehovah and Jesus. And there would be no such thing as the trinity teaching as they would know that they are seperate people.

ThisShouldMakeSense · Oct 6, 2005

michel said:
The trinity ? That, to me goes back again to the deascription of God; God is Spirit - imagine a large nebulous 'shape' that shifts, and chages, that can represent itself in many ways. Imagine a bit of that spirit 'detaching itself' from the bulk, taking human form, and being incarnated here on earth, as Jesus Christ.

We know Jesus Christ was here to tell us how to live, and how to 'earn' salvation; when he died, that spirit portion returned to the 'mass' of God, becoming one again, with that mass....

Edit: I have just realized that although this was my way of queerying the title of this thread ie " DO U SAY JESUS IS "GOD" (IF U SAY SO THEN BIBLE DISAGREE WITH U " in that I hope I have given my explanation on why I do think Jesus Christ is God, and that I see nothing in the bible to disagree with that belief.

Well, i ask you to look at this account, bearing in mind what you said in that thread. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 pay particular attention to verses 24 and 28.

' 20But the fact is that Christ has been raised from the dead. He has become the first of a great harvest of those who will be raised to life again.

21So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, Adam, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man, Christ. 22Everyone dies because all of us are related to Adam, the first man. But all who are related to Christ, the other man, will be given new life. 23But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised first; then when Christ comes back, all his people will be raised.

24After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having put down all enemies of every kind. 25For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. 26And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For the Scriptures say, "God has given him authority over all things." (Of course, when it says "authority over all things," it does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) 28Then, when he has conquered all things, the Son will present himself to God, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.'

Do you understand this?

Ronald · Oct 6, 2005

Michel, apparently you and I don't read the same Christian literature! Check out any Christian rating, top of the list is, are they trinitarian? If not they may say they're Christian but are not really Christian. Just as the Rabbinical Judahism is not really Jews. Both are false , but to the Christian community, both are "Matters of Fact"!

Mat. 4:4 where-in Yeshua quotes Torah and says man LIVES by the Word of God. God NEVER spoke the word trinity! If He did not say it, WHO did? Some flesh and blood man! And there's a famous quote by Yeshua, quoting Isaiah saying something about what man can dream up to put into the mouth of God. You try to put an abbominible thing in His mouth and you will be spit out!!!!

Christians are famous for their habits of replacing Gods "Appointed Times" with their own cheery holidays! Along with their pet terms! ------ Can't be found in the Tanack! Kinda says "Manmade."

ThisShouldMakeSense · Oct 6, 2005

Ronald said:
Michel, apparently you and I don't read the same Christian literature! Check out any Christian rating, top of the list is, are they trinitarian? If not they may say they're Christian but are not really Christian. Just as the Rabbinical Judahism is not really Jews. Both are false , but to the Christian community, both are "Matters of Fact"!

Mat. 4:4 where-in Yeshua quotes Torah and says man LIVES by the Word of God. God NEVER spoke the word trinity! If He did not say it, WHO did? Some flesh and blood man! And there's a famous quote by Yeshua, quoting Isaiah saying something about what man can dream up to put into the mouth of God. You try to put an abbominible thing in His mouth and you will be spit out!!!!

Christians are famous for their habits of replacing Gods "Appointed Times" with their own cheery holidays! Along with their pet terms! ------ Can't be found in the Tanack! Kinda says "Manmade."

nice one!
:clap

michel · Oct 6, 2005

Ronald,

I do owe you one apology, I admit, but if you look at the following website, you will see that although, as you were right to point out. most Christiams believe in the trinity, the trinity was not mentioned per se in the Bible, and was not a basic Christian Idea; you might like to look at the site below (which explains this under various headings which I have reproduced.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html

Most Christians in the world today believe in the Trinity which is the union of the three divine persons -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- into one Godhead.(1)
How the Trinity Became Doctrine
Trinity Not Mentioned In Bible
Trinity Is Not A Christian Idea

I do apologise for my misinformation though; but there are various branches of Christianity that do not accept the idea of the trinity. I do hope you are not going to question those people's right to call themselves Christian; they are branches of Christianity

Deut 13:1 · Oct 6, 2005

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
how would you be using it in vain, if you were simply using it in conversation? if you don't slander it, then you won't be direspecting it.

In a conversation about G-d and his laws, it's not a big deal. But when writing His name, we are cautious, why does it really matter that much what we do?

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
The ten comandments list God's name. there was no suggestion of replacing it with a title.

We don't replace His name in scripture because we consider it holy and we're not going to accidently crumple up the Bible like we could a piece of paper that my father wrote His name on. It's a precautioun, if you don't like it, don't do it.

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
The ancient isrealites used God's personal name and so did Jesus.

If you get in a conversation about G-d and His nature or His laws, I will say His name as well, we are just cautious about writing it. jesus isn't G-d in my opinion, so I have no problem writing his name down and throwing it away.

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
it was jewish superstition that replaced it with a title. by doing that they have hidden his name from the world.

Why do you care so much what we do? You're not Jewish, do as you wish.

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
Jesus said that he made God's name known and told us to pray for it to be hallowed or sanctified, set abouve all other names. How is this possible if people don't know what it is?

Why would I care what Christians do with His name?

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
Psalm 83:18 says that it it is YHVH that is the most high in all the earth.

Cool.

ThisShouldMakeSense said:
I also believe that if it wasn't for this fact, people wouldn't have as much difficulty in telling the difference between YHVH/Yaweh/Jehovah and Jesus. And there would be no such thing as the trinity teaching as they would know that they are seperate people.

Cool, I'm happy for you.

TashaN · Oct 6, 2005

michel said:
(I am getting some good excercise at this! ) .

excercise :sarcastic ... Do you really have to do so in order to understand it?

Do that means it's so complicated to understand the trinity and people are still accepting it as somthing not able to argue about?

michel said:
I do think Jesus Christ is God, and that I see nothing in the bible to disagree with that belief.

what about the first commandment? One God !!! right? and to not call anyone before him but nowdays people call Jesus before him.

Ronald · Oct 6, 2005

One more time Michel, the bible doesn't say Yeshua is God! Men have said that! It does say God is your salvation, which is Yehosheah/Gods Salvation. Yeshua is the sent one/Annointed/Messiah/Christ. One must ADD something to the word of God to get it to say HEis GOD.
Michel, if you are wrong, is there a penalty for false teaching? If I am wrong, what do I not receive that you are entitled to? Commentary is fine when it is backed up by Torah.

I am afraid trinitarians are like our government distributing three ply coins calling them "Quarters" impling they are equal to the old silver ones. If you have a sack full of pre-sixtys quarters you wouldn't mind trading for new quarters or four of them for a paper dollar, I'd love to swap!

Sterling Silver Christians believe exactlly what the bible says. Not the precepts of men.

michel · Oct 6, 2005

The Truth said:
excercise :sarcastic ... Do you really have to do so in order to understand it?

Do that means it's so complicated to understand the trinity and people are still accepting it as somthing not able to argue about?

what about the first commandment? One God !!! right? and to not call anyone before him but nowdays people call Jesus before him.

The Truth,

I amm not an intelligent man; The entire concept of God (Which is one too dificult for any of us to understand) is a concept that one needs to have firmly set in one's mind. I am but a learner.

One God !!! ------------> YES one God, with three facets of his 'Character' (to put it in terms that we can understand, as humans) - like you, The Thruth (although I know very little about you) - I know that you will have had a Mother and a Father (I hope they are still here), and you may have a brother.

There will still only be one "The Truth" - but you will have three people looking at you, and seeing different sides of you. One as a son of his mother, one of a son of his father, and one of a brother. Now do you understand ?

Scott1 · Oct 6, 2005

michel said:
"If you don't believe in a trinity you can't be Christian!" - I don't believe that is true; the trinity (as far as I am aware) is not a concept that is a must for Christians.

What it boils down to is this, the Christian confession of the Lordship of Jesus is inextricably linked with the Christian belief in the Trinity, for Jesus' place in saving history makes sense only insofar as he has been sent by the Father, and together with the Father, sends the Holy Spirit to heal, to renew, and to reconcile all that has been wounded by sin. The Christian understanding of God, in other words, cannot be expressed fully, let alone explained, apart from the doctrine of the Trinity and the person and work of Jesus Christ.

"It is impossible to believe explicityly in the mystery of Christ without faith in the Trinity, for the mystery of Christ includes that the Son of God took flesh, that He renewed the world through the grace of the Holy Spirit, and, again, that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit."(St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologia, II-II, q.2,a.8)

Without the concept of the divinity of Christ, Christianity becomes no more than a cult following of a "wise human teacher".... or it goes in the other direction and vaults Christ to God and becomes Christomonism.... the uniqueness of Christ, indeed that of Christianity, is that Christ is rooted in his consubstantial union with God the Father. An understanding of that uniqueness must, in turn, presuppose an understanding of God as triune.

It is not faith in the abstract concept of Trinity... it is not faith in a Church dogma... it is the very notion that God incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, is our Lord and Savior, redeemer of all mandkind that makes understanding God as truine the cornerstone of Christianity.

Anything else is just not Christianity... sorry.

TashaN · Oct 6, 2005

michel said:
The Truth,

I amm not an intelligent man; The entire concept of God (Which is one too dificult for any of us to understand) is a concept that one needs to have firmly set in one's mind. I am but a learner.

One God !!! ------------> YES one God, with three facets of his 'Character' (to put it in terms that we can understand, as humans) - like you, The Thruth (although I know very little about you) - I know that you will have had a Mother and a Father (I hope they are still here), and you may have a brother.

There will still only be one "The Truth" - but you will have three people looking at you, and seeing different sides of you. One as a son of his mother, one of a son of his father, and one of a brother. Now do you understand ?

yes my parents are here and i wish for them to live a long happy healthy life.

OK. about your example ...

It's not the same at all.

If your example is the same when you apply it to God so a part of me can be with my father, a part with my mom and one more part with my brother. How is that possible?

God is there "a person" , Jesus was living on earth among people "a person" and the holy spirit as an individual "person" too. So, they are 3 separate beings but not one like me. Got it?

TashaN · Oct 6, 2005

One more thing ... Where does Jesus declear himself as a god who "supposed to be" equal to God or part of him?

Please can you help me with a verse in the bible by Jesus talking about this issue?

DO U SAY JESUS IS "GOD" (IF U SAY SO THEN BIBLE DISAGREE WITH U)

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