• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Holy ghost or holy spirit?

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
The Truth said:
So what !!!! :confused:

In Islam we can marry from the "people of the book". So, that means, i can get married with any girl whether she was a Muslim, Jew or Christian.
What would happen if you wanted to marry an atheist ?
 

gtrsgrls

Member
When you hear the word spirit,what is the first word that comes to your mind...ghost.Yes, they are the same thing.:)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
JamesThePersian said:
But Christ did not call Himself a Holy Spirit. Paraclete means comforter as even you noted in an earlier post. Are you trying to suggest that because one of the Holy Spirit's titles is The Paraclete that there can never be any other person called the or a comforter in the whole history of the world? That's ridiculous.

The above quote (from the post where you noted that Paraclete means Comforter) seems to me to cause you more problems than it causes for Christians. If the other is, as we believe, the Holy Spirit, then it is not hard to see how this is fulfilled because He is indeed with us always and everywhere. If, on the other hand, we were to assume the other was Mohammed (or any other prophet) then it would be hard to see how it could ever be fulfilled.
Ohh finally, even though we didn't agree or reach to a fair point but i congratulate you and thank you so much that you had the intention to discuss with me.:)

JamesThePersian said:
How could any man ever abide with us for ever? Or are you trying to say that Mohammed is still alive and here with us and knocking on for 1500 years old?
Good question.:)

this promised Comforter was to "abide with you for EVER!" No one lives for even Jesus (pbuh) was mortal so must the coming Comforter also be mortal. No son of man can ever be immortal!
"Every soul shall have a taste of death". (SURAAL-I-IMRAN) Holy Qur'an 5:185

The soul does not really die, but when it separates from the body at the time of the death of the body, the soul will get a taste of death. But our Comforter was to "ABIDE" continue, endure for ever. All Comforters abide with us for ever. Moses is here with us today in his teachings. Jesus is here with us today in his teachings and Muhummed also is here with us in his teachings today. (May the peace and blessings of God be upon them all). This is not my novel idea trying to justify the preposterous. I say this with conviction and on the authority of Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself.
In Luke, chapter sixteen, Jesus (pbuh) tells us the story of the "Rich Man, Poor Man.' At death both find themselves at opposite ends — one in Heaven and the other in Hell. The rich man (Dives) simmering in Hell cries to Father Abraham to send the beggar (Lazarus) to assuage his thirst. But when every plea fails, he, as a last favour, requests that Father Abraham send the beggar back to earth to warn his living brothers against their impending doom if they heeded not the warnings of God.



But Abraham said, "If they (those still alive on earth) won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't listen even though someone rises from the dead. "(to warn them)

[font=Garamond, times new roman](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 16: 31 Jesus (pbuh) uttered the above fact centuries after the demise of the prophets of Israel like Jeremiah, Hosea, Zechariah, etc and over thirteen hundred years after Moses (pbuh). The Pharisees at the time of Jesus (pbuh) and we today can still listen to "MOSES AND THE PROPHETS," for they are still alive, and with us here today in their teachings.

[/font]
Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic "NO'S" as answers. To recapitulate:-

1) ART THOU THE CHRIST?
2) ART THOU ELIAS?
3) ART THOU THAT PROPHET?
But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two questions implied here. To make doubly clear that the Jews definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when they were interrogating John the Baptist, let us read the remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:

"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE
a) NOT THAT CHRIST,
b) NOR ELIAS,
c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?"
(John 1:25)

The Jews were waiting for the fulfilment of THREE distinct prophecies: One, the coming of CHRIST. Two the coming of ELIAS, and Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.

If we look up any Bible which has a concordance or cross-references, the we will find in the marginal note where the words "the Prophet", or "that Prophet" occur in John 1:25, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18. And that 'that prophet' - 'the prophet like Moses' - "LIKE UNTO THEE". he was MUHUMMED.

We Muslims are not denying that Jesus was the "Messiah", which word is translated as "Christ". We are not contesting the "thousand and one prophecies" which the Christians claim abound in the Old Testament foretelling the coming of the Messiah. What we say is that Deuteronomy 18:18 does NOT refer to Jesus Christ but it is an explicit prophecy about the Holy Prophet MUHUMMED!"

The Weekly Newsmagazine "TIME" dated July 15, 1974, carried a selection of opinions by various historians, writers, military men, businessmen and others on the subject: "Who Were History's Great Leaders?" Some said that it was Hitler; others said - Gandhi, Buddha, Lincoln and the like. But Jules Masserman, a United States psychoanalyst put the standards straight by giving the correct criteria wherewith to judge. He said:

"LEADERS MUST FULFIL THREE FUNCTIONS:-
(1) Provide for the well-being of the led,
(2) Provide a social organization in which people feel relatively secure
and
(3) Provide them with one set of beliefs."
With the above three criteria he searches history and analyses - Hitler, Pasteur, Gaesar, Moses, Confucius and the lot, and ultimately concludes:

"PEOPLE LIKE PASTEUR AND SALK ARE LEADERS IN THE FIRST SENSE. PEOPLE LIKE GANDHI AND CONFUCIUS, ON ONE HAND, AND ALEXANDER, CAESAR AND HITLER ON THE OTHER, ARE LEADERS IN THE SECOND AND PERHAPS THE THIRD SENSE. JESUS AND BUDDHA BELONG IN THE THIRD CATEGORY ALONE. PERHAPS THE GREATEST LEADER OF ALL TIMES WAS MOHAMMED, WHO COMBINED ALL THREE FUNCTIONS. To a lesser degree, MOSES DID THE SAME."

According to the objective standards set by the Professor of the Chicago University, whom I believe to be Jewish, - JESUS and BUDDHA are now - here in the picture of the "Great Leaders of Mankind", but by a queer coincidence groups Moses and Muhummed together thus adding further weight to the argument that JESUS is not like MOSES, but MUHUMMED is like MOSES: Deut.18:18 "LIKE UNTO THEE" - Like MOSES!

Reverend James L. Dow in Collins Dictionary of the Bible gives further proof, that JESUS is not like MOSES, but MUHUMMED is like Moses: "AS A STATESMAN AND LAWGIVER MOSES IS THE CREATOR OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE. HE FOUND A LOOSE CONGLOMERATION OF SEMITIC PEOPLE.

In conclusion, I end with a quotation of a Christian Reverend the commentator of the Bible, followed by that of his Master:
"THE ULTIMATE CRITERION OF A TRUE PROPHET IS THE MORAL CHARACTER OF HIS TEACHING."
(Prof. Dummelow.)

"BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM."
(Jesus Christ)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
The Truth said:
I'm not allowed to do so in Islam.
So - let's take a a 'pretend' scenario; you meet a girl, you get on, pretty soon you are serious; you find out she is not Muslim, but you love her. Would you walk away ?;)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
gtrsgrls said:
When you hear the word spirit,what is the first word that comes to your mind...ghost.Yes, they are the same thing.:)
Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they

are of God; because many false Prophets are gone out into the World.

(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 1
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
michel said:
So - let's take a a 'pretend' scenario; you meet a girl, you get on, pretty soon you are serious; you find out she is not Muslim, but you love her. Would you walk away ?;)
hard to think of that :confused:

i'll come back later on to answer :D
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
The Truth said:
hard to think of that :confused:

i'll come back later on to answer :D
Ahem; I have just realized we are off topic! - perhaps you ought to start another thread on that subject, if you think it worth debating.;)
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
The Truth said:
Scott1, i see that you hate Muslims for no reason and i don't know why actually once i discuss somthing you come here and say .. OOh muslims .. muslims .. muslims..
I don't hate Muslims... I love Muslims... I love them so much that I don't try to attack their faith in post after post..... you should try it sometime.:)

Great posts James, thanks for the help.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Scott1 said:
I don't hate Muslims... I love Muslims... I love them so much that I don't try to attack their faith in post after post..... you should try it sometime.:)
How do you know that a member in RF became an attacker? :confused:

Is there any definition for that?
 

Merlin

Active Member
michel said:
So - let's take a a 'pretend' scenario; you meet a girl, you get on, pretty soon you are serious; you find out she is not Muslim, but you love her. Would you walk away ?;)
Good question. Shall we start a new thread?
 

Merlin

Active Member
The Truth said:
I agree with you and even those people are not aware of Quran but just following what thier parents or thier sects wanted for them to be and they are just like unreligious christians in christianity.

They just remember islam when they get married or when the month of fasting comes "this month" .. etc.

I remind you that Prophet Moahmmed (PBUH) told us that, there will be 70 somthing sects in islam and it does not releat to the true Islam because they will twist the Quran and the teaching of Islam. He did also mentioned how many sects in jewdism and christianity too and it's 70 somthing for each.

Therefore, I don't believe in these sects and i hope that they will go back to thier mind and i just follow the teaching of Allah and the Sunnah (teaching and actions) of Prophet Moahmmed (PBUH).
I thought we started this thread within a thread on the basis that you did not think anyone would ever convert away from Islam because it is so perfect. Presumably, these less than perfect Moslems would be quite happy to convert as they are not committed.

You are perfectly entitled to keep secret which sect you belong to.
 

Merlin

Active Member
The Truth said:
So what !!!! :confused:

In Islam we can marry from the "people of the book". So, that means, i can get married with any girl whether she was a Muslim, Jew or Christian.
You need not be so sensitive. It was a question, not a criticism.

Bearing in mind the so-called honour killings, and other ways of showing displeasure, I am delighted you have an enlightened view about multifaith relationships. I hope for your and her sake your families share that view
 

Merlin

Active Member
The Truth said:
I'm not allowed to do so in Islam.
What if she is the absolute love of your life and you will be absolutely miserable without her? What would you then do?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Merlin said:
What if she is the absolute love of your life and you will be absolutely miserable without her? What would you then do?
Merlin said:
Good question. Shall we start a new thread?
Why not ... let's start new one.

i might share somthing with ya.;)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Merlin said:
You need not be so sensitive. It was a question, not a criticism.
Don't worry i'm not that serious so don't freak out when i use such emotions to describe any answer of mine. :D

Merlin said:
Bearing in mind the so-called honour killings, and other ways of showing displeasure,
What is the so-called honour killings and the other ways of showing displeasure??

I didn't get it ... :sarcastic
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Merlin said:
I thought we started this thread within a thread on the basis that you did not think anyone would ever convert away from Islam because it is so perfect. Presumably, these less than perfect Moslems would be quite happy to convert as they are not committed.
ha ?? :eek: Where did i say that Muslims will never convert away from Islam?

I think you mixed up with another thread.

Islam is a perfect religion but i heard about muslims who do converted but it wasn't for the religion itself as you know.

Somtimes because of thier love for a non-Muslims girl, sometimes for money and sometimes because the church gurantee for them to stay in that particular coutry if they converted to christianity and attended churches especially for the secandinivian countries which you find out easily that thier churches are simply empty most of the time.

Merlin said:
You are perfectly entitled to keep secret which sect you belong to.
i just follow the teaching of Allah and the Sunnah (teaching and actions) of Prophet Moahmmed (PBUH).

That wasn't enough for you? :sarcastic

I'm ready if you wanna talk about this in details to start a new thread about it.;)
 

napen

Member
The Truth said:
I agree with you and i can give you even more verses that prove the existance of the holy spirit even before Jesus (PBUH) was born but the problem is, Why did Jesus call himself a "hoyl spirit" or “Paraclete”?

I noticed that when i bring some verses so the reply i get from my christian brothers and sisters is other verses that contradict maybe with the verses i have but the only thing i wanted is to examine and some explinations about the verses i have not other verse which contradict (if it does) with the one i have.

I hope that you can help me with some explinations for what i have not by producing other verses.:help:
I can help you by directing you to the www.thename.ph where you can find a good deal about the holy spirit... or the word of God, all i can sya is that you have to read it through for you to find the revelation of the Name of god, and everything will follow, since for you call on the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob maybe we can have a common ground for us to exchange views regarding God, since we want to talk about god, which God we want to talk about. To say the God of Jesus, what is His Name? Then, if we can really know His Name, then we will be sure we would be talking of the same God...

go and may you find the truth...
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
napen said:
I can help you by directing you to the www.thename.ph where you can find a good deal about the holy spirit... or the word of God, all i can sya is that you have to read it through for you to find the revelation of the Name of god, and everything will follow, since for you call on the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob maybe we can have a common ground for us to exchange views regarding God, since we want to talk about god, which God we want to talk about. To say the God of Jesus, what is His Name? Then, if we can really know His Name, then we will be sure we would be talking of the same God...

go and may you find the truth...
Can i ask some questions after finishing reading that website? to discuss with you about many interesting things i may find in that website.
 

Merlin

Active Member
The Truth said:
i just follow the teaching of Allah and the Sunnah (teaching and actions) of Prophet Moahmmed (PBUH).
that's not a surprise, Pakistan is almost entirely Sunni Moslem.

You might like to educate the other contributors by explaining the difference between Shi'ite and Sunni. I think they would find it interesting.
 
Top