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Why did God need to learn Obedience?

jonny

Well-Known Member
Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)

Though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, be became the author of our eternal salvation.

Who is God being obdient to? Why would God need to learn obedience?

Could someone help me understand what is being said in Hebrews 5?
 

Aqualung

Tasty
He had to learn obedience to his father. If he had no obedience he wouldn't do what was necessary and wouldn't be able to be the author of our salvation.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Aqualung said:
He had to learn obedience to his father. If he had no obedience he wouldn't do what was necessary and wouldn't be able to be the author of our salvation.
Yes, I realize that much. :)

I was hoping to debate this with someone who believes in the trinity and find out what it means from their point of view. If Christ and the Father are the same, who is Christ being obedient to?
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Here are some other translations of Hebrews 5:8-9

RSV - 8: Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered;
9: and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

NIV - 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

NASB - 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

Wycliff - 8 And when he was God's Son, he learned obedience of these things that he suffered; 9and he brought to the end is made cause of everlasting health [and he led to perfection is made cause of everlasting health] to all that obey him,

Luther - 8Und wiewohl er Gottes Sohn war, hat er doch an dem, was er litt Gehorsam gelernt. 9Und da er vollendet war, ist er geworden allen, die ihm gehorsam sind, eine Ursache zur ewigen Seligkeit.

I see a trend...
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Jesus was born of God and Mary, he had a childhood like any other and he had to learn all things like other children. He learned throughout his life, From Teachers, through debate, through experience,and direct from God.
His final lesson was on the cross, when for a moment he seemed to doubt the presence and promise of God. when by his own power he could have freed himself, he chose to Obey his destiny given him by GOd.
I think it was in the agony of his crucifixion that he Truly understood in his new found perfection, how his selfless crucifixion would be the salvation for all mankind.

I think Christ through out his life on earth, Knew he had the power of God, but still had to learn as a man, as this was the role Given him by God.

Terry______________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
Jesus was born of God and Mary, he had a childhood like any other and he had to learn all things like other children. He learned throughout his life, From Teachers, through debate, through experience,and direct from God.

His final lesson was on the cross, when for a moment he seemed to doubt the presence and promise of God. when by his own power he could have freed himself, he chose to Obey his destiny given him by GOd.

I think it was in the agony of his crucifixion that he Truly understood in his new found perfection, how his selfless crucifixion would be the salvation for all mankind.

I think Christ through out his life on earth, Knew he had the power of God, but still had to learn as a man, as this was the role Given him by God.
Thanks. That's a great answer and I agree with you.
 

Jensen

Active Member
jonny said:
Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)

Though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, be became the author of our eternal salvation.

Who is God being obdient to? Why would God need to learn obedience?

Could someone help me understand what is being said in Hebrews 5?
It doesn't say that God needed to learn obedience....it says the Son learned obedience. Did God need to be made perfect? I think God has always been perfect.

Jensen:bounce
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Jensen said:
It doesn't say that God needed to learn obedience....it says the Son learned obedience. Did God need to be made perfect? I think God has always been perfect.

Jensen:bounce
If you learn obedience, there must have been a time when you did not know obedience.
or you would not have had to learn it.
Because of the role Give to Jesus by God, Jesus as a MAN had to learn everything.
True as god he could have taken a short cut...but that was not the deal
smile.gif

Terry____________________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
If you learn obedience, there must have been a time when you did not know obedience.
or you would not have had to learn it.
Because of the role Give to Jesus by God, Jesus as a MAN had to learn everything.
True as god he could have taken a short cut...but that was not the deal

Why do you think God had to learn obedience?
 

love

tri-polar optimist
In what way did Jesus take any short cuts? He went through all things that a man goes through, yet without sin. He had to learn to walk, to talk, to read and write. He was tempted. He felt pain and hunger. He wept. He conquered life and death. The veil was torn. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light, and if you count that as a trinity so be it.
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Just another passage that would hint at Jesus' humanity over Him being God. God in no way would have to learn anything or be obedient to Himself. To say such a thing is open blashpemy to most. Even if Jesus was indeed 50% God, His knowledge would still be far above needing guidance of ANY kind. Never forget that all of the knowledge that we have acquired in our millions of years of existance is still nothing when compared to the knowledge of the Almighty...Jesus was a servant of God, guided in every way by the Almighty, but not the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of All Knowledge.
 
Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)

Though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, be became the author of our eternal salvation.

Who is God being obdient to? Why would God need to learn obedience?

Could someone help me understand what is being said in Hebrews 5?
Obedience to the Father, because He took on a human nature and was fully Man.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Just another passage that would hint at Jesus' humanity over Him being God. God in no way would have to learn anything or be obedient to Himself. To say such a thing is open blashpeme to most. Even if Jesus was indeed 50% God, His knowledge would still be far above needing guidance of ANY kind. Never forget that all of the knowledge that we have acquired in our millions of years of existance is still nothing when compared to the knowledge of the Almighty...Jesus was a servant of God, guided in every way by the Almighty, but not the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of All Knowledge.


THANK YOU...!!!!

.....Woooooo.......FINALLY......

I Love when you comment...:)
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Obedience to the Father, because He took on a human nature and was fully Man.

But if you believe in the trinity, isn't he the Father? So, why does he need to learn to be obedient to himself? Why does God need to learn to be obedient to anything?

Also, I've never heard that idea the Christ was fully man? Is this Biblical? I always believed he was God - even when he walked the earth.
 

kmkemp

Active Member
One reason that Jesus was sent to Earth was to be a model for us to imitate. In order to be a model, He must take on 100% human characteristics. Jesus was tempted to sin, just as we are. Yet He was perfectly obedient. It was not a trait that He had at birth, but something that He continually learned every time He turned from sin. That is my interpretation. Great find, though. I have never stopped to think about that verse before. ~
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
One reason that Jesus was sent to Earth was to be a model for us to imitate. In order to be a model, He must take on 100% human characteristics. Jesus was tempted to sin, just as we are. Yet He was perfectly obedient. It was not a trait that He had at birth, but something that He continually learned every time He turned from sin. That is my interpretation. Great find, though. I have never stopped to think about that verse before. ~

So would that mean that Christ wasn't omniscient while he was on the earth?
 
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