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Did Osama Bin Laden Win the "War on Terror"?

Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
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GabrielWithoutWings

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
I'd withhold judgment until the 'War on Terror' is officially over (if there ever is such a thing).

I would say that his side is definitely winning. Sovereign countries are pouring their resources into combating terrorism with no obvious real effects. Not saying that there aren't results. Maybe they just don't matter in the long run.

Lives lost, billions spent, reputation scorched and their side? No shortage of recruits and funding to go with it.
 
dmgdnooc

dmgdnooc

Active Member
Nobody wins a war.
Except the banks that are financing it.
And the corporations who manufacture the weapons.
And the Generals who recieve promotions.
 
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kai

kai

ragamuffin
well lets see! did he achieve his objectives?

I believe they were to:

Drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Bin Laden has also said that he wishes to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs.

My Verdict =Failed dismally.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
If his target was to kill a lot of people and cause great damage. He succeded.
If it was to change and defeat his enemies, he failed.
If it was to unify the Muslim world, he failed.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
kai said:
well lets see! did he achieve his objectives?

I believe they were to:

Drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Bin Laden has also said that he wishes to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs.

My Verdict =Failed dismally.
Click to expand...

Were those his real objectives?

What do you make of the statement from the article:

"...bin Laden “had a strategy that we never bothered to understand, and thus that we never bothered to defend against.” His goal was not some fantasy about establishing a worldwide caliphate or imposing “Sharia law” on Greenwich Village; having seen the Soviet Union decline in large part by bankrupting itself in an arms race with the U.S., with a huge assist from the Mujahadeen fighting them in Afghanistan, his objective was to wage economic war against the United States by drawing it into a similar conflict."
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Kilgore Trout said:
He ended up getting shot in the head in the middle of the night. Quite a victory.
Click to expand...
Still, the effects of his victory live on with great durability.

Just a few days ago, my daughter went thru airport security in NY. The TSA staff were openly & audibly cursing passengers in Spanish.
There were no repercussions. The fact that Americans take this in stride, is proof of Usama's victory over us.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Revoltingest said:
Still, the effects of his victory live on with great durability.

Just a few days ago, my daughter went thru airport security in NY. The TSA staff were openly & audibly cursing passengers in Spanish.
There were no repercussions. The fact that Americans take this in stride, is proof of Usama's victory over us.
Click to expand...

But that's a metaphor.

The propensity of Americans to deny liberties spans every era of our history, and is arguably more acute in times of conflict. Osama isn't responsible for that, we are.
 
Chisti

Chisti

Active Member
Revoltingest said:
Still, the effects of his victory live on with great durability.

Just a few days ago, my daughter went thru airport security in NY. The TSA staff were openly & audibly cursing passengers in Spanish.
There were no repercussions. The fact that Americans take this in stride, is proof of Usama's victory over us.
Click to expand...

Why were they cursing passengers?
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
Sunstone said:
Were those his real objectives?

What do you make of the statement from the article:

"...bin Laden “had a strategy that we never bothered to understand, and thus that we never bothered to defend against.” His goal was not some fantasy about establishing a worldwide caliphate or imposing “Sharia law” on Greenwich Village; having seen the Soviet Union decline in large part by bankrupting itself in an arms race with the U.S., with a huge assist from the Mujahadeen fighting them in Afghanistan, his objective was to wage economic war against the United States by drawing it into a similar conflict."
Click to expand...



Nah that doesn't ring true to me! I dont think the Soviet war in Afghanistan dented the bear that much , i mean it hasnt stopped them in Chechnya.

even if it was true that didnt work either did it.

My Verdict on waging an economic war on the US= failed dismally
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
Revoltingest said:
Failed? Man, you don't live here!
The events of 9/11 precipitated a gigantic crash.
Click to expand...

Oh come on ! jeesh crashes are periodical, was it or is it any harder than the crash of the 30s? because to be honest with you, over here. i here about recession but see very little that i havnt seen a lot worse before.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
kai said:
Oh come on ! jeesh crashes are periodical, was it or is it any harder than the crash of the 30s? because to be honest with you, over here. i here about recession but see very little that i havnt seen a lot worse before.
Click to expand...
I presume you don't live here....or use spell check.
Immediately after the towers fell, I had tenants lose venture capital funding & go out of business. Financing became harder to get.
Commercial rents began falling & vacancy rates rose as businesses stopped expanding & cut back spending, fearing economic slowdown.
I saw it happen & saw why it happened. The fact that crashes are periodical is a red herring....they are not inevitable. This one had a
trigger, ie, 9/11. (Certainly, it was exacerbated by the housing bubble & other factors.)
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
"...Osama bin Laden's attacks provoked the U.S. into a disastrous over-reaction – drawing it into an unwinnable and often hellish ground-war in Afghanistan and ultimately costing us thousands of American lives, trillions of dollars in national wealth, an enormous amount of international prestige and, more importantly, influence over global affairs."

Did Bin Laden win the "War on Terror"? Why or why not?
Click to expand...
No, but the US certainly lost.

(There were no winners.)
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
Revoltingest said:
I presume you don't live here....or use spell check.
Immediately after the towers fell, I had tenants lose venture capital funding & go out of business. Financing became harder to get.
Commercial rents began falling & vacancy rates rose as businesses stopped expanding & cut back spending, fearing economic slowdown.
I saw it happen & saw why it happened. The fact that crashes are periodical is a red herring....they are not inevitable. This one had a
trigger, ie, 9/11. (Certainly, it was exacerbated by the housing bubble & other factors.)
Click to expand...

whatever! take a look around the world some people watch their children die for lack of water. We in the west were doing goooooood.
 
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