A new hypothesis on Jesus

Around 63 BCE the Jewish people were suffering from turmoil, Rome has conquered the Judean kingdom and the life of the Jewish people are going from bad to worse. Now according to the New Testament, God sends his son Jesus for the salvation of mankind. As written in the New Testament he is crucified and rises from the dead and modern day Christianity begins to evolve.


In the Torah (first book of the Tanakh) one of the 10 Commandants is God’s command “you shall have no other gods before me” or words to that effect. In the Bible Satan works for God as an accuser, something like a modern day Prosecuting Attorney or District Attorney. Now in Job, Satan is performing a “sting” on Job trying to get him to turn away from God, which he doesn’t.


At this point I would like to present this hypothesis. Satan, with God’s permission has asked if a “sting” could be ran on the Jewish people to find out if they would turn away from God. Jesus is the focus of this “sting” and proceeds to work among the people teaching his views of the Jewish faith and some see him as the messiah. Jesus is put to death and the “sting” continues, but things get out-of-hand. The majority of the Jewish people reject the idea of Jesus being the messiah and do not turn away from God. However, a new religion is born with Jesus as the focal point. We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

esmith said:

Around 63 BCE the Jewish people were suffering from turmoil, Rome has conquered the Judean kingdom and the life of the Jewish people are going from bad to worse. Now according to the New Testament, God sends his son Jesus for the salvation of mankind. As written in the New Testament he is crucified and rises from the dead and modern day Christianity begins to evolve.


In the Torah (first book of the Tanakh) one of the 10 Commandants is God’s command “you shall have no other gods before me” or words to that effect. In the Bible Satan works for God as an accuser, something like a modern day Prosecuting Attorney or District Attorney. Now in Job, Satan is performing a “sting” on Job trying to get him to turn away from God, which he doesn’t.


At this point I would like to present this hypothesis. Satan, with God’s permission has asked if a “sting” could be ran on the Jewish people to find out if they would turn away from God. Jesus is the focus of this “sting” and proceeds to work among the people teaching his views of the Jewish faith and some see him as the messiah. Jesus is put to death and the “sting” continues, but things get out-of-hand. The majority of the Jewish people reject the idea of Jesus being the messiah and do not turn away from God. However, a new religion is born with Jesus as the focal point. We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

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Which is fine, except that even the religious authorities agreed that no one could do what Jesus did apart from God. And we don't have other gods. Jesus is God Incarnate.

You are the weakest link... Goodbye!

sojourner said:

Which is fine, except that even the religious authorities agreed that no one could do what Jesus did apart from God. And we don't have other gods. Jesus is God Incarnate.

You are the weakest link... Goodbye!

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Huh, which "religious authorities".
Do you believe in the Devil? If you do, what is he, a competing god?

esmith said:

Around 63 BCE the Jewish people were suffering from turmoil, Rome has conquered the Judean kingdom and the life of the Jewish people are going from bad to worse. . . .

. . . .We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

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Well that certainly wouldn't have been an omnipotent god who set up such a game plan. Being omnipotent, the Christian god knew full well what was going to befall Jesus, and all the events that followed, even before he was born.

Skwim said:

Well that certainly wouldn't have been an omnipotent god who set up such a game plan. Being omnipotent, the Christian god knew full well what was going to befall Jesus, and all the events that followed, even before he was born.

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You seem to be under the impression that, according to Christian theology, it's god's job to keep people from screwing up.

If that were so, why would He need to give them a set of laws in the first place?

Quagmire said:

You seem to be under the impression that, according to Christian theology, it's god's job to keep people from screwing up.

If that were so, why would He need to give them a set of laws in the first place?

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Not at all. I'm just pointing out why the Christian god would have no reason for hatching such a plot where "things [got] out-of-hand."

esmith said:

At this point I would like to present this hypothesis. Satan, with God’s permission has asked if a “sting” could be ran on the Jewish people to find out if they would turn away from God. Jesus is the focus of this “sting” and proceeds to work among the people teaching his views of the Jewish faith and some see him as the messiah. Jesus is put to death and the “sting” continues, but things get out-of-hand. The majority of the Jewish people reject the idea of Jesus being the messiah and do not turn away from God. However, a new religion is born with Jesus as the focal point. We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

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I don't think it is a very viable hypothesis. Mainly because there were various other possible Messiah's, religious leaders, etc running around during that time as well. Jesus is only special now because some decided to write about him and his idea has been preserved.

So unless God put together multiple stings that failed for the most part, I can't really see Jesus being such a sting.

esmith said:

Huh, which "religious authorities".
Do you believe in the Devil? If you do, what is he, a competing god?

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The Jewish religious authorities. Read your Bible.

esmith,
Interesting and provocative thought. I like it. Don't listen to the naysayers, good thinking. Your only major flaw that I can see off handedly is that most of the Christians I know don't worship Jesus (he was more after 'followers' more than 'worshipers', but anyway) as much as they idolize the Bible. Paul is more influential on the average church (and thus Christian) than the words/teaching of Jesus.

sojourner said:

The Jewish religious authorities. Read your Bible.

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I see no reference to Jesus in what Christians call the Old Testament.

WayFarer said:

esmith,
Interesting and provocative thought. I like it. Don't listen to the naysayers, good thinking. Your only major flaw that I can see off handedly is that most of the Christians I know don't worship Jesus (he was more after 'followers' more than 'worshipers', but anyway) as much as they idolize the Bible. Paul is more influential on the average church (and thus Christian) than the words/teaching of Jesus.

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Unfortunately, I am starting to see more and more indications that some Christians do worship Jesus either by substitution or directly. For example "In Jesus Christ our Lord Amen) In the church I go to (don't ask, why) the Minister makes it very clear that Jesus is who they are worshiping

esmith said:

Unfortunately, I am starting to see more and more indications that some Christians do worship Jesus either by substitution or directly. For example "In Jesus Christ our Lord Amen) In the church I go to (don't ask, why) the Minister makes it very clear that Jesus is who they are worshiping

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But is it more lip service than anything? I mean I guess someone dosen't have to follow the wishes/commands/directives of whomever they worship but do they practice what he preached? You are right though, in word if not in deed, his name is invoked quite frequently.

esmith said:

Around 63 BC the Jewish people were suffering from turmoil, Rome has conquered the Judean kingdom and the life of the Jewish people are going from bad to worse.

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Around 63 BC. the Romans did not conquered the Judean kingdom, they were welcomed as protectors from the belligerant party empire or "Persian empire".

Your use of (BCE) is also an implide offence to Christians because BC stands for "Before Christ" and BCE stands for "before common error"
The RF staff should take note of this.

Now according to the New Testament, God sends his son Jesus for the salvation of mankind. As written in the New Testament he is crucified and rises from the dead and modern day Christianity begins to evolve.

Click to expand...

You got this right

In the Torah (first book of the Tanakh) one of the 10 Commandants is God’s command “you shall have no other gods before me” or words to that effect. In the Bible Satan works for God as an accuser, something like a modern day Prosecuting Attorney or District Attorney. Now in Job, Satan is performing a “sting” on Job trying to get him to turn away from God, which he doesn’t.


At this point I would like to present this hypothesis. Satan, with God’s permission has asked if a “sting” could be ran on the Jewish people to find out if they would turn away from God. Jesus is the focus of this “sting” and proceeds to work among the people teaching his views of the Jewish faith and some see him as the messiah. Jesus is put to death and the “sting” continues, but things get out-of-hand. The majority of the Jewish people reject the idea of Jesus being the messiah and do not turn away from God. However, a new religion is born with Jesus as the focal point. We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

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Jesus is not another God, He is God.
Some things are hard to explain because if we want to understand them we will have to do some spiritual gymnastic.

As we all know the Word of God is Jesus, He was in the beginning with God: therefore God and His word had an equal beginning if there ever was a beginning.
Also the word of God is the first born of all creation; Yes because until God spoke and revealed himself, His word was hidden in himself, just Like your unspoken thought. So God without His active thoughts is a dead God; as you know thought are compiled by words and the Word is Jesus. Therefore if there was no Word neither would there be any God or life in the universe. Thus Jesus is God as John 1:1- 4. clearly points Him out to be.

Jesus is also a man; because the Word was made flesh, that is to say that the Word of God give life to the seed of the woman therefore the word of God become a man in flesh and blood and like all men He was also subject to pain, hunger, anger, happiness, temptation and death, He was truely like all other men. Therefore while Jesus was in the flesh He was not God, but He was the exact rapresentation of the Father, this is obvious because God or the Father cannot be tempted or die.

However, Jesus as a man died sinless therefore He fulfilled His mission, His mission was to fulfill the law and thus reverse what Adam did.

Now, Jesus the word that partook of the flesh of man and died sinless was glorified by God as we read in ACTS2:33, "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

So Jesus the man "having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit" in other words Jesus the man has inherited God.
But that is not all, because we all should know that God loves humanity so much that we also can become heirs of God and joint heir with Christ if we believe and obey Him.

I hope you can believe and understand that Jesus or the Word of God is the beginning and the end, therefore He is God blessed forever amen.

WayFarer said:

But is it more lip service than anything? I mean I guess someone dosen't have to follow the wishes/commands/directives of whomever they worship but do they practice what he preached? You are right though, in word if not in deed, his name is invoked quite frequently.

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You decide, see the post directly above this one.

WayFarer said:

esmith,
Interesting and provocative thought. I like it. Don't listen to the naysayers, good thinking. Your only major flaw that I can see off handedly is that most of the Christians I know don't worship Jesus (he was more after 'followers' more than 'worshipers', but anyway) as much as they idolize the Bible. Paul is more influential on the average church (and thus Christian) than the words/teaching of Jesus.

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It isn't naysaying. The hypothesis simply falls short. Why Jesus and not John the Baptist. Why Jesus and not the Egyptian? Why Jesus and not the various other supposed messiahs or religious leaders during that time? If God was creating a sting, why would he have to have so many failures before and after Jesus? It simply doesn't make sense.


As for the topic about Christianity worshipping two gods. Jesus is considered to be part of God. When people worship Jesus, they are worshipping God. The is the whole point of the trinity.

I have to ask, have you read any of the Bible or know anything about Christianity? Jesus came to bring people to God, he came to teach us about God, and more importantly how to please God. He was created by God, and He is God, if you believe in the NT He performed many miracles and was raised from the dead to prove that His message was from God.

When people worship Jesus, they are worshiping God.

esmith said:

... However, a new religion is born with Jesus as the focal point. We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

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That commandment is only for Jews, and the Romans are not Jews. They are permitted to have such a trinity, while Jews are not.

Rather than see Satan as running a sting on Jews, what about a plan to spread the worship of the G-d of Abraham among the Romans, who were on a collision course with the Jews and would eventually destroy the Temple. One door closes, another opens.

fallingblood said:

It isn't naysaying. The hypothesis simply falls short.

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Oh, I was not saying you were a naysayer. (I became a bit distracted when writing my reply and yours was posted between the last one I read and when I submitted mine.) I agree with what you had posted. I just really like interesting suppositions and thought that was rather original. (If it is not, then I just haven't heard it before.) And my comment was more about flippant and/or dogmatic remarks. I have conversations like this all the time with a friend of mine and was impressed with its "spin".

esmith said:

Around 63 BCE the Jewish people were suffering from turmoil, Rome has conquered the Judean kingdom and the life of the Jewish people are going from bad to worse. Now according to the New Testament, God sends his son Jesus for the salvation of mankind. As written in the New Testament he is crucified and rises from the dead and modern day Christianity begins to evolve.


In the Torah (first book of the Tanakh) one of the 10 Commandants is God’s command “you shall have no other gods before me” or words to that effect. In the Bible Satan works for God as an accuser, something like a modern day Prosecuting Attorney or District Attorney. Now in Job, Satan is performing a “sting” on Job trying to get him to turn away from God, which he doesn’t.


At this point I would like to present this hypothesis. Satan, with God’s permission has asked if a “sting” could be ran on the Jewish people to find out if they would turn away from God. Jesus is the focus of this “sting” and proceeds to work among the people teaching his views of the Jewish faith and some see him as the messiah. Jesus is put to death and the “sting” continues, but things get out-of-hand. The majority of the Jewish people reject the idea of Jesus being the messiah and do not turn away from God. However, a new religion is born with Jesus as the focal point. We now have a religion that is focused on Jesus and is violating one of the Commandants: having no other gods.

Click to expand...

The word...'agenda' ....was left out.

Most dogmatic faiths have a story line...and you follow along or not.

Your post includes....agendas.
and the possibility that God is not 'hands on' in every direction.

Jesus declared Himself to be....'brother and fellow servant.'

Most people want something else.

esmith said:

I see no reference to Jesus in what Christians call the Old Testament.

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The passage to which I referred is not located in the OT. Again: Read your Bible.