Christian: Eternal nature of marriage and family

Scott1 · Sep 30, 2005

Ok... to continue our discussion:

Scott said:

What importance would your husband/wife be in the precense of God? Not putting down earthly marriage (of course) but it would be like wondering where your penny is when you have a billion dollars in front of you. Just wondering what purpose marriage would have in heaven?

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Katzpur said:
To me, it will be of great importance. You're married, I believe. If your wife precedes you in death, will your love for her die? Are you really saying that you don't even care if your relationship continues to exist in the life to come?

My love for her will not die... but it will be overshadowed. I often explain it like this:

Sounds silly, but imagine you are in heaven and are standing in front of your husband/wife and a pool of clear, cold water...

Your are covered in gasoline.

A match is lit... you are engulfed in flames.

I bet you jump in the water before you even think about your spouse.

God's love is more intense than that fire.

jonny · Sep 30, 2005

I believe that the eternal family is necessary in order to obtain exaltation and become like God.

Quiddity · Sep 30, 2005

jonny said:
I believe that the eternal family is necessary in order to obtain exaltation and become like God.

The Church is the eternal family..:bounce

~Victor

jonny · Sep 30, 2005

Victor said:
The Church is the eternal family..:bounce

~Victor

That's true. When you really get down to it in LDS beliefs, everyone is one big family and we will all eventually be sealed together.

Scott1 · Sep 30, 2005

Victor said:
The Church is the eternal family..:bounce

Amen... and I don't think I'd ever try to "become like God"

... loving Him is enough for me.

Aqualung · Sep 30, 2005

Scott, I just have to ask. Why did you change your avatar into Victor's and have the same colour name? So you could show that you are one united catholic front?

Scott1 · Sep 30, 2005

Aqualung said:
Scott, I just have to ask. Why did you change your avatar into Victor's and have the same colour name? So you could show that you are one united catholic front?

More of a friendship thing... but the united Catholic front sounds REALLY cool.

Also, there is : R.Catholic Questions?

Peace.

Aqualung · Sep 30, 2005

oh. That's cool. ONe time in the chat room me and nutshell made our colour the same to have a united lds front. It's really cool, allright. But it's confusing, since I tend to just look at the avatars.

I guess I'll have to grow up and learn to read then, eh?

Aqualung · Sep 30, 2005

if what you shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven, why can't you seal a marriage for earth and for heaven?

Scott1 · Sep 30, 2005

Aqualung said:
oh. That's cool. ONe time in the chat room me and nutshell made our colour the same to have a united lds front. It's really cool, allright. But it's confusing, since I tend to just look at the avatars. I guess I'll have to grow up and learn to read then, eh?

I've got more ribbons than Victor....

Katzpur · Sep 30, 2005

Scott1 said:
Ok... to continue our discussion:

My love for her will not die... but it will be overshadowed. I often explain it like this:

Sounds silly, but imagine you are in heaven and are standing in front of your husband/wife and a pool of clear, cold water...

Your are covered in gasoline.

A match is lit... you are engulfed in flames.

I bet you jump in the water before you even think about your spouse.

God's love is more intense than that fire.

I'm sure you're right, Scott. If I were writhing in pain, the main thing that would be on my mind would be to find some sort of release. I also agree with you that God's love is more intense than fire. But it's also a good kind of intense and not something that we would want to avoid. To me, living forever in God's love and living together with those I loved during mortality doesn't need to be an either-or kind of thing.

When you say your love for your wife will be overshadowed, I'm assuming that you mean that once you are in the presence of God, nothing else will matter. But I don't see how a relationship built over several decades could suddenly cease to matter. I see emotions and feelings as being eternal in nature since they are part of our spirituality. If the husband-wife relationship ceases to exist at death, there is no reason to assume that all relationships cease to exist. If that is the case, then even friendships become null and void in the eternities, and the likelihood exists that we won't even recognize one another.

I believe that the following two scriptures represent the way God looks at the sacrament of marriage:

"Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 11:11)

"Whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it." (Ecclesiastes 3:14)

Kathryn

Katzpur · Sep 30, 2005

Scott1 said:
Amen... and I don't think I'd ever try to "become like God" ... loving Him is enough for me.

Really? Well, Jesus Christ commanded us to be perfect, like our Father in Heaven is. Why on earth wouldn't you want to be like Him? What better role model could you possibly ask for? I'm not saying that any of us will be able to reach that goal during mortality, but I don't believe Christ would have commanded us to do something He knew we would never be able to accomplish.

Aqualung · Sep 30, 2005

Scott1 said:
I've got more ribbons than Victor....

:woohoo: I don't have to read anymore.

Snowbear · Oct 1, 2005

jonny said:
I believe that the eternal family is necessary in order to obtain exaltation and become like God.

I don't wanna become "like God." I just wanna be with God.
As a single person who is not (and likely won't be) married and will for sure never have children, I am grateful to already be adopted into the family of God. That is my eternal family and I'm looking forward to meeting my Father, Savior, Teacher and all my adopted brothers and sisters without the complications of earthly emotions.

If it's so important that a husband/wife bond be eternal, why is it OK to remarry when one of the parties dies?

Katzpur · Oct 1, 2005

StewpidLoser said:
I don't wanna become "like God." I just wanna be with God.
As a single person who is not (and likely won't be) married and will for sure never have children, I am grateful to already be adopted into the family of God. That is my eternal family and I'm looking forward to meeting my Father, Savior, Teacher and all my adopted brothers and sisters without the complications of earthly emotions.

Apparently your experiences with "earthly emotions" have been less than ideal. I'm looking forward to being part of God's eternal family, too, but I am also looking forward to continuing to be my parents' daughter, my husband's wife and my children's mother. I don't see why we can't have both. And I can't imagine why God would want family relationships to dissolve with death.

If it's so important that a husband/wife bond be eternal, why is it OK to remarry when one of the parties dies?

Life can be very lonely without a partner. God doesn't want us to be lonely either.

glasgowchick · Oct 1, 2005

if it is so important that a husband and wife bond eternal, why is it ok to remarry, when one of the parties die.

Hi stewpidloser, maybe this will answer your question..On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him,
Matthew 22:24 saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies, having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up offspring to his brother.'
Matthew 22:25 "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother;
Matthew 22:26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.
Matthew 22:27 "And last of all, the woman died.
Matthew 22:28 "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her."
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, no understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God.
Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. .

StewpidLoser said:
I don't wanna become "like God." I just wanna be with God.
As a single person who is not (and likely won't be) married and will for sure never have children, I am grateful to already be adopted into the family of God. That is my eternal family and I'm looking forward to meeting my Father, Savior, Teacher and all my adopted brothers and sisters without the complications of earthly emotions.

If it's so important that a husband/wife bond be eternal, why is it OK to remarry when one of the parties dies?

glasgowchick · Oct 1, 2005

I know it is your choice of user name, but I feel uncomfortable calling you a stewpidloser..Sorry

Snowbear · Oct 1, 2005

glasgowchick said:
Hi stewpidloser, maybe this will answer your question...

It does.
It also confirms what I said in another thread about earthly marriages no longer mattering once we are in Heaven

Thank you.

I can't frubal you 'cause I need to spread 'em around first

Aqualung · Oct 1, 2005

StewpidLoser said:
It does.
It also confirms what I said in another thread about earthly marriages no longer mattering once we are in Heaven
Thank you.

I can't frubal you 'cause I need to spread 'em around first

The only reason that people are like angels in the resurection was because at that thim, Jesus was talking to jews, and before he had actually "restored" the melchizedek priesthood. Nobody at that time had the authority to marry people for time and eternity. He was also just trying to make a point about their hypocrasy. So he didn't spend a lot of time explaining how it would be later if they couldn't even understand how it was at that time.

Katzpur · Oct 1, 2005

glasgowchick said:
Hi stewpidloser, maybe this will answer your question..On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him,
Matthew 22:24 saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies, having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up offspring to his brother.'
Matthew 22:25 "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother;
Matthew 22:26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.
Matthew 22:27 "And last of all, the woman died.
Matthew 22:28 "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her."
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, no understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God.
Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. .

Im so glad someone quoted this scripture. I knew it would just be a matter of time, but Im kind of surprised that it took so long. You have quoted Matthew. The same incident is also discussed in both Mark and Luke. Unless I am mistaken, John is the only gospel writer who does not include it in his account. I believe that these verses are among the most universally misunderstood of any in the New Testament. At first glance, they do appear to be saying that marriage does not survive the grave. But for those willing to look a little deeper, there are some significant clues which imply that the truth is a bit more involved. Ill cover some of these points in this post. First, here are Marks and Lukes words.

Mark 12:18-25 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Luke 20:27-36: Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him, Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

I would also post the entire text of John 17, because it is very important to an accurate understanding of these passages on marriage, but that would make what will already be a pretty long post even longer. You may, however, wish to review that chapter yourself. Anyway, here are my thoughts on the subject:

1. We need, as always, to be aware of who Jesus audience was. In this instance, He was speaking to the Sadducees. What do we know about the Sadducees? First of all, they didnt believe in a resurrection at all. In asking a question of this sort, do you honestly think they were looking for the truth? Or do you think that, as on many other occasions, they were simply trying to stump Jesus by asking a question that would cause Him to have to contradict something Hed previously taught. Its entirely logical to assume that Jesus, knowing their hearts as perfectly as He did, would have given them an answer that, while entirely honest, would pertain to them specifically. In teaching a truly receptive audience, His answer would likely have been expressed somewhat differently.

2. John 17 (which I referred to earlier) makes frequent use of the phrases of the world and not of the world. These phrases are, in fact, used so many times that its almost impossible to brush them off as inconsequential. In the prayer recorded in this chapter, Jesus made a clear distinction between His followers, in other words, those individuals who, like Him, were not of this world, and those who rejected Him, thereby falling into the group who were of the world.

In Lukes account of this event, Jesus once again uses the phrase, of the world. Jesus was telling the Sadducees, who were obviously children of the world what they could expect in the next life. Because they were not His followers, they would not receive the blessings of eternal marriage, but would instead be as angels. Jesus did not explain to them the blessings that the children not of this world would receive. Why should He have done? They would have believed Him to exactly the same extent that they believed they would be resurrected.

3. Looking at Marks account, we see another important indication of what Jesus really meant. Here, Jesus is recorded as having said, Ye know not the power of God. What on earth could He have meant by that? The power of God to do what un-marry someone? In the context of His statement, He could only have meant that the Sadducees did not understand that God has the power to unite a husband and wife forever. Without such power, death would certainly end the marriage covenant, but with it, the covenant is eternal. Jesus gave Peter the keys to bind in heaven that which he would bind on earth. Having that authority, he would be able to exercise the power of God to make the marriage relationship endure. We know from the Old Testament that whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever. When Peter received the keys to the kingdom of God, he received the power of God to do something that would have eternal significance.

4. Finally, it is significant that Jesus never did say that no one would be married in Heaven. He merely said that no one would get married in Heaven. There is a difference between these two things. The Greek word translated as marry is gamosin, the third-person form of the verb gameo, which means to enter into the marriage state or to get married. The term gamizonai (giving in marriage) is another way of saying the same thing. But, He never used the word, gemesas, (as is found in 1 Corinthians 7:33) to describe a married person. He never said that there will be no married individuals in Heaven; He only said that marriages wont be performed there. And I believe this to be the case.

Christian: Eternal nature of marriage and family

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