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Do we have a "PURPOSE?"

charles brough

charles brough

Member
It seems to me that the only "purpose" we can have is one we set up for ourselves. Include me in the Non-Theists and one who does not see us as serving the purpose of some diety.

In order to have your own "purpose," one needs goals and one serves that purpose by achieving them. I set out when I was young to find out why civilizations rise and fall. In the process of achieving that goal, I developed the science of social evolution without dealing with "memes."

But it is not only the individual that needs goals in life. Societies have goals also. Unfortunately, the old religions the world's main societies center in have obsolete goals. Christianity, for example, sets up a millenium of "God's Kingdom on Earth" as the goal of the Christendom, one supposedly following a bloody world war which the faith's fanatics will subliminally lead us into in order to be "saved." Islam has the same goal. Hindu society seeks "Nirvana." Just as bad, East Asian Marxism seeks an impossible communal society.

Thats not all. Our secular system seeks "the pursuit of happiness." That has enabled the corporate system to advertise-shape us into fanatical "shoppers" bound in debt in order to buy more "stuff."

I really think we can do better than that.

Social evolution turns out to explain this sort of thing quite well, I am happy to say. . .
 
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Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I think it's quite simple. Every society has basic roles, and everyone must fulfill them.

The purpose of the military is to protect the people.
The purpose of police is to enforce the law.
The purpose of courts is to settle disputes (social or legal).
The purpose of farmers is to provide food.
The purposes of scientists are many: medicine, transportation, knowledge, etc.
The purpose of entertainers is to help keep people sane through days of hard, stressful work.
The purpose of laborers are also many: accomplish projects, keep things clean, etc.
The purpose of the leader(s) is to keep everything in order and working harmoniously.

There are a lot of nuances in this, which is probably why there hasn't been a system yet that really works, but I think the overall "goal" is actually a primal one: survival. Social order is simply how we function as a species, and the "purpose" (if you can call it that) of a species is to survive.

On an individual level, I believe that "purpose" should be self-defined.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
charles brough said:
Hindu society seeks "Nirvana." .
Click to expand...

Completely wrong. Nirvana is Buddhist, not Hindu.

Vedic Sages have found four primary goals of life: Dharma, Artha, Kama, and Moksha. Dharma doesn't really have a real translation in English, but it's basically defined as natural order of things in terms of duty, religion, ethics, tendencies, etc(I'd bet you could write a whole book dedicated to what Dharma means); Artha is material wealth and gain; Kama is sensual pleasure (not necessarily sexuality); and Moksha is liberation (that is, from the cycle of rebirth.)

I would very much argue that the first three are quite relevant today. They're broad, so they could be defined in a secular fashion, and I don't think it can be disputed that the vast majority of people try to do the right thing, try to gain wealth, and seek pleasure. Moksha is primarily sought by renunciates; the majority of Hindus don't seek it.

Vidya (knowledge) is also referred to as one of the primary goals of life, and some Sages have argued that it is THE primary goal of humanity.
 
Penumbra

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
charles brough said:
It seems to me that the only "purpose" we can have is one we set up for ourselves. Include me in the Non-Theists and one who does not see us as serving the purpose of some diety.

In order to have your own "purpose," one needs goals and one serves that purpose by achieving them. I set out when I was young to find out why civilizations rise and fall. In the process of achieving that goal, I developed the science of social evolution without dealing with "memes."

But it is not only the individual that needs goals in life. Societies have goals also. Unfortunately, the old religions the world's main societies center in have obsolete goals. Christianity, for example, sets up a millenium of "God's Kingdom on Earth" as the goal of the Christendom, one supposedly following a bloody world war which the faith's fanatics will subliminally lead us into in order to be "saved." Islam has the same goal. Hindu society seeks "Nirvana." Just as bad, East Asian Marxism seeks an impossible communal society.

Thats not all. Our secular system seeks "the pursuit of happiness." That has enabled the corporate system to advertise-shape us into fanatical "shoppers" bound in debt in order to buy more "stuff."

I really think we can do better than that.

Social evolution turns out to explain this sort of thing quite well, I am happy to say. . .
Click to expand...
There of course exist temporary practical purposes. Riverwolf provided several examples of those.

They don't fully define individuals, though. They aren't life purposes. If someone wants a life purpose, they can make one for their own self. "Life goals" would usually be a better phrase to use though, in my view.
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
The Baha'i Faith states our purpose here is twofold:
· As individuals, to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both now and in the Next Life.
· In aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization.

And the purpose of religion is to show us HOW to go about these!

Peace, :)

Bruce
 
charles brough

charles brough

Member
Riverwolf said:
There are a lot of nuances in this, which is probably why there hasn't been a system yet that really works, but I think the overall "goal" is actually a primal one: survival. Social order is simply how we function as a species, and the "purpose" (if you can call it that) of a species is to survive.

On an individual level, I believe that "purpose" should be self-defined.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless, each "religion"/ideology-bonded society has at least one common goal it teaches its people to struggle together to achieve. That serves the function of encouraging cooperation among them and a common "purpose." It provides a means to judge "progress" depending upon how well they do cooperate to achieve it.
Being small-group social animals, it is difficult for us to feel secure in and close to millions of other people in our society withing common goals and, as well, a common moral system, and some sort of agreement as to where we came from as well as what stands in the way of our achieving our goals.

Christianity, Islam and Judaism taught the coming of "the savior" and "God's Kingdom."
Soviet and East Asian Marxism teaches(taught) "communism." Our secular ideology teaches "the pursuit of happiness>" Hinduism/Buddhism teach reincarnation/nirvana.

Brough
 
charles brough

charles brough

Member
BruceDLimber said:
The Baha'i Faith states our purpose here is twofold:
· As individuals, to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both now and in the Next Life.
· In aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization.

And the purpose of religion is to show us HOW to go about these!

Peace, :)

Bruce
Click to expand...

yes, I agree. The Baha'i faith has a goal also, to advance civilization. Variants of this ideology backed Three regimes in Islam, one of which we removed (Iraq) and the other two we are now hoping to remove.(!)

Yes, how to achieve the goals is the moral system. People have to "pull together" or make no progress.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
charles brough said:
Yes, your right. Hinduism teaches reincarnation.
Click to expand...

Buddhism, Jainism, and some others teach similar concepts. The idea of some part of us lasting through multiple lives is part of Indian thought.

From what I've studied in Hinduism, many of its philosophies and ethics are anything but obsolete. I'd argue that some of them are more relevant today than they've ever been.

You might want to study Hinduism a bit more, because I don't think you quite understand it.
 
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Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
charles brough said:
Being small-group social animals, it is difficult for us to feel secure in and close to millions of other people in our society withing common goals and, as well, a common moral system, and some sort of agreement as to where we came from as well as what stands in the way of our achieving our goals.
Click to expand...

No arguments here. My contemplations have led me to conclude that smaller nations are far more effective than larger ones, simply because it's a lot easier to coordinate.
 
dolly

dolly

Member
Beyond reproducing and surviving long enough to protect our offspring (when they are helpless)? Nope.
 
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