Why so many people revert to Islam ?!

Bismillah said:

I am saying that by the most basic definition of Shariah the cases where hudud is enforced is impermissible or illegal (KSA Iran).

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So if it is impermissible and illegal, the perps were arrested and convicted, right?

I am not sure you follow, arresting and conviction of these people is in itself illegal as Shariah does not exist. Therefore it is a great sin to enforce hudud.

I'm not sure YOU follow. Or maybe you're just trying to confuse the issue. If apostates are killed in the name of Islam but without sanction of law, and I'm assuming murder is illegal in Arab states just like everywhere else in the world, then those who kill apostates should be brought up on murder charges. All I'm asking is, "Are they or aren't they?" It's a simple question.

I am sorry, I didn't understand what you are saying. I do not know the offense for implementing hudud when Shariah does not exist. And quite obviously they are not charged for the execution of apostates.

why quite obviously?... it isn't obvious to me at all. I have some vague recollections of people talking about the subject, but don't know the stats if 0% or 100% of these murderers are brought to justice.

The people carrying out the executions are the legal system of the country...

right... so I will ask again... do you NOT see a problem with integration of church and state?

Are you serious? "Why should it given that Shariah is defunct in the modern world?"

I don't care if the prosecution of apostates is done under Sharia law or monkey law. The very act demonstrates the integration I speak of.

I could care less about

do you NOT see a problem with integration of church and state?

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with any other political system, but I do not see a problem with Shariah law.

Bismillah said:

I could care less about with any other political system, but I do not see a problem with Shariah law.

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http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-sharia-is-evil-abomination-these.html

Autodidact said:

Here's my point. If I put on a t-shirt that identifies me as an atheist, and walk down a street in most Muslim-dominated places, I would not be safe.

That's horrible, and explains why you don't meet a lot of public ex-Muslims. The ones you hear of are very brave, and live with 24-hour security.

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I recently heard an ABC Radio National (Aus) interview with a Pakistani Muslim Professor of Economics who had been living in Washington for the past twelve years. He was being pressed by the interviewer on the “barbarity of Shariah law” and the amputation of the hands of thieves. The Professor patiently explained that some five or six repeat offenders receive such punishment in Pakistan while in the US some 28, 000 citizens are killed each year by fire arms. He had no hesitation in letting his wife and daughter go out at night in Pakistan...but in Washington would not dream of letting them go out unaccompanied even in daylight.

In the U.S. for 2006, there were 30,896 deaths from firearms
The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Here's my point...If I put on non descript clothes that do not identify me as belonging to anything, and walk down a street in most US Cities, I would not be safe...There is a good chance I could end up as one of the 230,896 firearms victims or one of the millions of victims of lesser crimes.

That's horrible, and explains why people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Either post an argument or don't I'm not going to shift through some idiotic site.

I was thinking about if I had to choose between the Abrahamic religions, I'd probably find Islam appealing because of how strong it seems. The people are generally strict adherents, there are clear-cut rules, people go by the book. I look at Christianity, for instance, and the people are so overwhelmingly divided. Most don't follow the rules, many don't read their scripture.

Well, I'm just glad I have my Gita.

Bismillah said:

Either post an argument or don't I'm not going to shift through some idiotic site.

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"the Quran stipulated that female slaves might lawfully be enjoyed by their masters." Mohammad himself owned many slaves, some of whom he captured in wars of conquest and some he purchased. The names of forty slaves owned by Mohammad are recorded by Muslim chroniclers. Islamic law (Sharia) contains elaborate regulations for slavery.

Madhuri said:

Well, I'm just glad I have my Gita.

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He He.......>I< have your Gita

I have had it and drawn from it, loved it and leaned from it since I was fifteen.

I also have your Mahabharata

I teach it to my children and the young adults I work with. It is vital Narrative Therapy.

I also have Bismillah's Quran

Sorry guys...but you can't stop me!

I am a human being, these are gems in my human heritage, the kids will have access to them all, there is no stopping it...we allready have a generation of such mixed ethnicity, nationality and diverse cultural background that they identify more with >the world< than they do with any one country/culture/religion....

I will not give your Holy books back to the exclusive domains of single faiths... these precious tomes have been liberated in the name of the people...

and we are One People/One World

Wombat said:

I recently heard an ABC Radio National (Aus) interview with a Pakistani Muslim Professor of Economics who had been living in Washington for the past twelve years. He was being pressed by the interviewer on the “barbarity of Shariah law” and the amputation of the hands of thieves. The Professor patiently explained that some five or six repeat offenders receive such punishment in Pakistan while in the US some 28, 000 citizens are killed each year by fire arms. He had no hesitation in letting his wife and daughter go out at night in Pakistan...but in Washington would not dream of letting them go out unaccompanied even in daylight.

In the U.S. for 2006, there were 30,896 deaths from firearms
The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Here's my point...If I put on non descript clothes that do not identify me as belonging to anything, and walk down a street in most US Cities, I would not be safe...There is a good chance I could end up as one of the 230,896 firearms victims or one of the millions of victims of lesser crimes.

That's horrible, and explains why people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

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You should note that the US is a notable exception among developed countries. Other such countries are very much safer.

I wonder how many are killed by firearms (and bombs) in Pakistan. I think the professor's comparison is dishonest. He might have noted that suicide bombings are rare in the US. Also, he did not address the barbarity of the amputations.

Looncall said:

You should note that the US is a notable exception among developed countries. Other such countries are very much safer.

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A "notable exception" when it comes to guns, other developed countries have their own barbarities and are only "very much safer" depending on who you are.

Looncall said:

I wonder how many are killed by firearms (and bombs) in Pakistan..

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Ah huh...And I wonder how many Aboriginal children die of poverty and neglect here in "developed" Australia and how many "developed" nations do a dammed thing about the highly organized child sex tourist trade their citizens engage in in SE Asia, and I wonder what the point is of even trying to conduct such fingerpointing (at Islam, America, Christianity, Australia, Pakistan) when >everybody< has some dirty laundry...?

Looncall said:

I think the professor's comparison is dishonest. He might have noted that suicide bombings are rare in the US. Also, he did not address the barbarity of the amputations.

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Yes, he did "address the barbarity of the amputations"...he gently pointed out that while 'Shariah law' might seem 'barbaric' to you/one group another individual/group may find your legal system just as barbaric or moreso.

Less than a dozen people per year who loose a hand up against 30,000 who loose their life? Or the "barbarity" of having the most imprisoned population in the world? Including vast numbers of intellectually and psych disabled?

Here in Australia we have a Western legal system that (like America) you do your time for your crime and then (if you don't get raped/shanked/killed inside) you emerge with the ongoing social stigma and reduced oportunity of a criminal record.

Within/beneath that "developed" sophistication we have the "barbarity" of 'Tribal Law'...an Aboriginal offender is stabbed in the leg with a spear. Then it's all over. They are immediately accepted back into the community as if nothing had happened.

A year?, five? ten in prison? Or a spear in the leg?
You tell me which one is a "barbaric" option?

Wombat said:

Here's my point...If I put on non descript clothes that do not identify me as belonging to anything, and walk down a street in most US Cities, I would not be safe...There is a good chance I could end up as one of the 230,896 firearms victims or one of the millions of victims of lesser crimes.

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Uh, no, there isn't. Over 30,000 deaths from firearms, added to the over 200,000 deaths from car accidents, with about 230,000 deaths from those two things alone, and according to the U.S. population clock (which is based on the Census), the total population of the U.S. is about 300,000,000.

Thus, the chances of you becoming a victim of one of those two things are QUITE small, depending on where you live. Where I live, for example, death by firearms is actually quite rare. But, nearby, there's a town that's famous for being very dangerous.

So, it's all about where you are. Many towns are perfectly safe, many towns are dangerous.