Saul on the road to Damascus , Acts 9:6 ?

dan p · Mar 17, 2011

Hi nto all and most of us who attened Sunday School , remember this story of Saul and how he was saved .

But you know , all that they say is that the Glory of Christ struck Saul down and how Christ asked him why he was persecuting him .

But they never explain how SAUL was saved .

#1 , Was Saul saved by the preaching of the Law ?

#2 , Was Saul saved by water Baptism ?

#3 , How did Jesus save SAUL ?

#4 , Could it be by what 1 Cor 12:3 says ?

#5 , Or was SAUL saved by Grace ?

I say that Saul was the FIRST member of the Body of Christ !!

I say , that Saul was baptized by 1 Cor 12:13 and this baptism is by the Holy Spirit and not by WATER !!

I say that Jesus APPROACHED Saul and Saul was not seeking God at all .

There is no one that seekth after God and there is no one righteous , no not one .

For the Natural man , god is foolishness to him , 1 Cor 2:14 , and neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned .

It is by election , dan p

esmith · Mar 18, 2011

As a believer in the God of the Old Testament I have serious doubts about the entire Jesus story. As far as Saul/Paul goes it is my belief that he was a egomaniac and found a story that he could use to feed his disillusions of grandeur. You find this type of personal trait among many of today's Christian evangelistic and political figures. If one was to step back and look at the situation that existed during that time period, without your Christian prejudice, you can see the time was ripe for a person to step forward and take advantage of the political and economical circumstances. Which would also feed a persons desire to become a more authoritative person.

Ronald · Mar 18, 2011

Dan p
Excuse me, but, I wont confuse you with anymore facts as your mind is made up!

dan p · Mar 18, 2011

Ronald said:
Dan p
Excuse me, but, I wont confuse you with anymore facts as your mind is made up!

Hi Ronald , and this a debate section and you will have to address the OP , to convice me otherwise and you failed , dan p

Ronald · Mar 19, 2011

dan p said:
Hi Ronald , and this a debate section and you will have to address the OP , to convice me otherwise and you failed , dan p

Sorry, dan p, but I don't have to!
I didn't bring a jackhammer to break the concrete. :sorry1:

Shalom

dan p · Mar 21, 2011

Ronald said:
Sorry, dan p, but I don't have to!
I didn't bring a jackhammer to break the concrete. :sorry1:

Shalom

Hi Ronald , you will not need a jackhammer IF you address the OP with sound theological sense , an no offense is meant , dan p

Ronald · Mar 21, 2011

dan p said:
Hi Ronald , you will not need a jackhammer IF you address the OP with sound theological sense , an no offense is meant , dan p

Didn't Y H V H know the "End, from the beginning"?
Shema v'shemar.
Give up idols,
learn Torah,
bring a sacrifice,
be baptized/mikveh,
Behold, you are joined with the "Elect of God".

dan p · Mar 23, 2011

Ronald said:
Didn't Y H V H know the "End, from the beginning"?
Shema v'shemar.
Give up idols,
learn Torah,
bring a sacrifice,
be baptized/mikveh,
Behold, you are joined with the "Elect of God".

Hi Ronald , and I am not Jew , so what you have written does no0t effect me or my walk with Christ .

And the call your self the WAY , so maybe you can explain what the way is in Acts 18:26 , IF you want to try a new thread on what " the WAY " is , since you have labeled your self " the way " , dan p

Ronald · Mar 23, 2011

The Torah is the Way of God &the word of God
Yeshua said he is the Word of God and I am the Way.
The first believers were members of the Way.
Sha'ul still breathing threats at those of the Way.
Is visited by the Way, becomes a believer and is baptized, joins the Way, is arrested gives testamony about the Way.
The Torah, Yeshua and the gospels are the Way, the Way of God.
First you must find the Way, commit to the Way, follow the Way to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Jn.22:10-14 invited guests filled the hall one man bound hand and foot, thrown into the outer darkness.
Many are called; but few are chosen.
The man in question did not know the Way! No one can be chosen if he does not know the Way.

dan p · Mar 23, 2011

esmith said:
As a believer in the God of the Old Testament I have serious doubts about the entire Jesus story. As far as Saul/Paul goes it is my belief that he was a egomaniac and found a story that he could use to feed his disillusions of grandeur. You find this type of personal trait among many of today's Christian evangelistic and political figures. If one was to step back and look at the situation that existed during that time period, without your Christian prejudice, you can see the time was ripe for a person to step forward and take advantage of the political and economical circumstances. Which would also feed a persons desire to become a more authoritative person.

Hi , undecided , and 1 Cor 13:3 says , that there are many people like you that deny that Paul is speaking by the Holy Spirit and in 1 Cor 13:3 , : since ye seek a Proof of Christ speaking in me " .

The Holy Spirit also says in 1 Cor 13:11 , " for in nothing am I Behind in the Chiefest apostles ( talking about the 12 ) though I be nothing . dan p

Judge_not · Mar 24, 2011

esmith said:
As a believer in the God of the Old Testament I have serious doubts about the entire Jesus story. As far as Saul/Paul goes it is my belief that he was a egomaniac and found a story that he could use to feed his disillusions of grandeur. You find this type of personal trait among many of today's Christian evangelistic and political figures. If one was to step back and look at the situation that existed during that time period, without your Christian prejudice, you can see the time was ripe for a person to step forward and take advantage of the political and economical circumstances. Which would also feed a persons desire to become a more authoritative person.

Hiya Undecided,
how about take a step forward and see that the wars that were going on then are still going on now...the fundamentalist killlings on both sides. No one will give up a single strike until the entire land is obliterated. Look outside, we can no longer trust the very soil we should be able to grow food in, we can no longer trust the very air we breathe, yet, you say to look without "christian predjudice". I look and see predjudice everywhere. Man has destroyed what God has given us. Now we are here, waiting, while the ship is sinking. While we sit and debate religious scripture, shouldn't we be teaching ourselves and our children how to survive in times like these??? God gave us everything we need to live and man has raped and poisoned it . Strapped it with highways and built highrises that will only fall. Money,money,money...credit,credit,credit... 1/3 of this nation, a 1/3 of that nation, ect... You fail to see the forest through the trees, maybe because they have been clear-cut. Jesus an egomaniac?? Why not say the same about Obama? Oh my, have I struck a nerve? Watch and see how well this Libya deal goes down. Lord have mercy.
~Miss teary:candle:

esmith · Mar 24, 2011

dan p said:
Hi , undecided , and 1 Cor 13:3 says , that there are many people like you that deny that Paul is speaking by the Holy Spirit and in 1 Cor 13:3 , : since ye seek a Proof of Christ speaking in me " .

The Holy Spirit also says in 1 Cor 13:11 , " for in nothing am I Behind in the Chiefest apostles ( talking about the 12 ) though I be nothing . dan p

But you use Paul's own writings to validate Paul's teachings. So if you, let say use Hitler's Mein Kampf to validate Hitler's viewpoint, wouldn't this be the same thing. Now before you go ballistic, I am not comparing Paul to Hitler; just the idea of using a person's own writings to validate their writings.

esmith · Mar 24, 2011

Judge_not said:
Hiya Undecided,
how about take a step forward and see that the wars that were going on then are still going on now...the fundamentalist killlings on both sides. No one will give up a single strike until the entire land is obliterated. Look outside, we can no longer trust the very soil we should be able to grow food in, we can no longer trust the very air we breathe, yet, you say to look without "christian predjudice". I look and see predjudice everywhere. Man has destroyed what God has given us. Now we are here, waiting, while the ship is sinking. While we sit and debate religious scripture, shouldn't we be teaching ourselves and our children how to survive in times like these??? God gave us everything we need to live and man has raped and poisoned it . Strapped it with highways and built highrises that will only fall. Money,money,money...credit,credit,credit... 1/3 of this nation, a 1/3 of that nation, ect... You fail to see the forest through the trees, maybe because they have been clear-cut. Jesus an egomaniac?? Why not say the same about Obama? Oh my, have I struck a nerve? Watch and see how well this Libya deal goes down. Lord have mercy.
~Miss teary:candle:

Seems that you have made a couple of invalid conclusions from my post.
First what makes you think I am an admirer of Obama? As a matter of fact, as far as I am concerned he is the worst President in modern history.
Second - That I said the Jesus was an egomaniac. I made it quite clear that I do not believe in the Jesus of the bible. There may have been a Jesus during that period of time but I do not believe in the portrayals as put forth in the New Testament. I think that the teachings attributed to him are valid to a point.
Third, As far as Libya goes, it is my opinion that France perpetuated a "fast one" (but that is not the point of this discussion).

What I meant by setting aside the Christian prejudices is maybe the incorrect word. I probably should have use "indoctrination" instead.

Judge_not · Mar 25, 2011

esmith said:
Seems that you have made a couple of invalid conclusions from my post.
First what makes you think I am an admirer of Obama? As a matter of fact, as far as I am concerned he is the worst President in modern history.
Second - That I said the Jesus was an egomaniac. I made it quite clear that I do not believe in the Jesus of the bible. There may have been a Jesus during that period of time but I do not believe in the portrayals as put forth in the New Testament. I think that the teachings attributed to him are valid to a point.

What I meant by setting aside the Christian prejudices is maybe the incorrect word. I probably should have use "indoctrination" instead.

Hi again,
I don't assume you support Anything, I have a bad habit of speaking in general, I know somebody who read what I wrote would like to say somthing about how wonderful the prez is...you're right though, this is not the place to go there.

I would never, ever, try and convince you of anything but you did say you are a believer in the Old testament, and if I'm not mistaken you say you believe some of the teachings of Jesus are valid to a certain extent... and that he's been misinterpreted through the ages due to whatever reason...mistranslations,ect.
No problem you have your ideas, others have thiers.

I'm gonna tell you what I think...

I believe Jesus was the Son of God and he preformed miracles and was not boastful about it. He actually at certain times told people not to tell it. I haven't known many people with true gifts but there are some. I believe Jesus had them all.
The only indoctrination I've ever had is watching my Grandmother minister,My family get togethers, and being annointed with olive oil and prayed for and healed.
I don't need convinced.
But I do want to ask you, How much more convincing to you is Moses than Jesus??
I'm just curious. Since it seems you have read the New Testament, Doesn't Jesus ask the same thing??
~respectfully
Miss Teary:candle:

thedope · Mar 25, 2011

esmith said:
If one was to step back and look at the situation that existed during that time period, without your Christian prejudice, you can see the time was ripe for a person to step forward and take advantage of the political and economical circumstances. Which would also feed a persons desire to become a more authoritative person.

That is a perfect description of Paul but not of Jesus. Paul was a creature of advantaged opportunity for the early church. Paul was a zealot and was taken to traveling far in pursuit of his own devotion. What a person to recruit. It wasn't sainthood that made Paul valuable, but his political activism.

esmith · Mar 25, 2011

Judge_not said:
Hi again,
I don't assume you support Anything, I have a bad habit of speaking in general, I know somebody who read what I wrote would like to say somthing about how wonderful the prez is...you're right though, this is not the place to go there.

I would never, ever, try and convince you of anything but you did say you are a believer in the Old testament, and if I'm not mistaken you say you believe some of the teachings of Jesus are valid to a certain extent... and that he's been misinterpreted through the ages due to whatever reason...mistranslations,ect.
No problem you have your ideas, others have thiers.

I'm gonna tell you what I think...

Judge_not said:
I believe Jesus was the Son of God and he preformed miracles and was not boastful about it. He actually at certain times told people not to tell it. I haven't known many people with true gifts but there are some. I believe Jesus had them all.

If you read John 11 about the death of Lazarus. Jesus makes it a point to insure that Lazarus will die so that he can do a miracle with witnesses present. Would you not consider this "boastful". Another point, in other Synoptic Gospels he doesn't want people to know he can do miracles, this, and other points, leads me to doubt anything written in the New Testament.

Judge_not said:
The only indoctrination I've ever had is watching my Grandmother minister,My family get togethers, and being annointed with olive oil and prayed for and healed.
I don't need convinced.

Yes but at a very young age (the most impressionable time in your life) you were subjected to events that you as a child could not comprehend...you were subjected to indoctrination. Had you been left on your own until a older age when you could "reason" you may or may not have had a different outlook on your present religious beliefs.

Judge_not said:
But I do want to ask you, How much more convincing to you is Moses than Jesus??
I'm just curious. Since it seems you have read the New Testament, Doesn't Jesus ask the same thing??
~respectfully
Miss Teary:candle:

First, in regard to Moses. Moses, is portrayed as the "Law Giver". He was not portrayed as the Son of God, was not risen from the dead, and did not preform the miracles that Jesus was said to have done. I also believe that various events surrounding the Moses story have been exaggerated, also the stories about Moses closely parallel the legend of Sargon of Akkad (3 millennium BCE). As I said the teaching of Jesus as portrayed in the NT are well worth following.

Judge_not · Mar 25, 2011

Yes but at a very young age (the most impressionable time in your life) you were subjected to events that you as a child could not comprehend...you were subjected to indoctrination. Had you been left on your own until a older age when you could "reason" you may or may not have had a different outlook on your present religious beliefs.

Oh the stories I could tell you! Yes, I was very young, maybe I couldn't comprehend it, but I could feel it and after that I was left to pretty much do as I wanted. I'm not going to go into details but I strayed very far from the path of my familial upbringing...I'm tattooed from stem to stern, If the faith I had as a child was as strong during my 20's I think my life would have been alot easier. People do have God given gifts, some do. Alot have false gifts (cough::televangelist::cough) I was never forced into belief, I think thats what sets alot of people apart from fundamentalist who do the very things they preach not to do. I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning scripture, not at all, but there has to come a time when you set aside what man has twisted and decide what it is you have faith in, faith as in the opposite of doubt...not needing proof anymore. Me, I inherited my Grandmas old KJV...she WAS a very gifted woman whether you believe me or not I don't care. I used to like to study Apocryphal text, gnostic gospels, the Occult, ect ad nauseum.... but now I find myself very into Grandmas Old Dusty King James Version. Oh, that thing about Lazarus, I'm not going to cut and paste scripture here but I think you should go back and re-read it...just sayin'. I'm not trying to be condescending I just think you may be taking things alittle out of context.
:candle:

esmith · Mar 25, 2011

Judge_not said:
Yes but at a very young age (the most impressionable time in your life) you were subjected to events that you as a child could not comprehend...you were subjected to indoctrination. Had you been left on your own until a older age when you could "reason" you may or may not have had a different outlook on your present religious beliefs.

Oh the stories I could tell you! Yes, I was very young, maybe I couldn't comprehend it, but I could feel it and after that I was left to pretty much do as I wanted. I'm not going to go into details but I strayed very far from the path of my familial upbringing...I'm tattooed from stem to stern, If the faith I had as a child was as strong during my 20's I think my life would have been alot easier. People do have God given gifts, some do. Alot have false gifts (cough::televangelist::cough) I was never forced into belief, I think thats what sets alot of people apart from fundamentalist who do the very things they preach not to do. I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning scripture, not at all, but there has to come a time when you set aside what man has twisted and decide what it is you have faith in, faith as in the opposite of doubt...not needing proof anymore. Me, I inherited my Grandmas old KJV...she WAS a very gifted woman whether you believe me or not I don't care. I used to like to study Apocryphal text, gnostic gospels, the Occult, ect ad nauseum.... but now I find myself very into Grandmas Old Dusty King James Version. Oh, that thing about Lazarus, I'm not going to cut and paste scripture here but I think you should go back and re-read it...just sayin'. I'm not trying to be condescending I just think you may be taking things alittle out of context.
:candle:

I still read that he wanted people to know that he could do miracles. So we disagree in the interpretation, no problem that is the way it should be.

Judge_not · Mar 26, 2011

esmith said:
I still read that he wanted people to know that he could do miracles. So we disagree in the interpretation, no problem that is the way it should be.

Lazarus was the brother of Martha and Mary, you know that. Jesus Loved Lazarus. He wasn't told he was dead, he was told he was sick. He told his disciples Lazarus was "sleeping", of course back then they had no cellphones...Jesus knew, because he had the gift, that Lazarus was already dead...he had to tell his disciples since they diddn't understand, finally..."Lazarus is dead." So, they go back and everyone is weeping and Martha meets Jesus and says "had you been here my brother would not have died" When Lazarus rose again, Jesus Thanked his Father. He also thanked his Father that all those who witnessed would finally believe, because well...he knew he was gonna die. Then of course once the knews got back to the city...you know the rest. Yes I agree to disagree. Most folks here would look at me as "superstitious" or a "backwoods hillbilly" but that doesn't bother me either.
:shrug:

esmith · Mar 26, 2011

Judge_not said:
Lazarus was the brother of Martha and Mary, you know that. Jesus Loved Lazarus. He wasn't told he was dead, he was told he was sick. He told his disciples Lazarus was "sleeping", of course back then they had no cellphones...Jesus knew, because he had the gift, that Lazarus was already dead...he had to tell his disciples since they diddn't understand, finally..."Lazarus is dead." So, they go back and everyone is weeping and Martha meets Jesus and says "had you been here my brother would not have died" When Lazarus rose again, Jesus Thanked his Father. He also thanked his Father that all those who witnessed would finally believe, because well...he knew he was gonna die. Then of course once the knews got back to the city...you know the rest. Yes I agree to disagree. Most folks here would look at me as "superstitious" or a "backwoods hillbilly" but that doesn't bother me either.

John 11:14 So then he told them plainly "Lazarus is dead and for your sake I am glad I was not there so that you may believe"
Does not this indicate that Jesus wanted to show his disciples that he would be glorified through what happens to Lazarus? At least that is what the interpretation in the NIV Study Bible says.

Believing what you believe is not "superstitious" or a "backwoods hillbilly". All it says is that you believe what you believe. I am not trying to demean you or your beliefs; it is just that I am having a hard time believing what is written. Just started going back to church after over 50 years absence.

Saul on the road to Damascus , Acts 9:6 ?

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