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Why is Baptism so revered ??

D

dan p

Member
Hi to all and many believers say that Baptism is still necessary or will say it is symbolic , but does not save .

In Matt 3:2 , John is saying , REPENT ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

The Kingdom of heaven is given to Israel and speaks to the 1000 year reign of Christ and what is known as the Millennial Kingdom .

Who is the YE ??

By the context , John is speaking to Jews !

Also notice that Repentance is tied to water Baptism in verse 11 .

In John 1:31 , John says this , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be MADE KNOWN to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with water , NOT to be made known to Gentiles ?

The conclusion is , Repentamce and Water were for Israel and not for GENTILES .

I have NEVER seen where Repentance and Water Baptism were given to The Gentiles or the Body of Christ and Paul was not yet saved OR had he written that there was such a thing as the Body of Christ .
dan p
 
F

faithofabraham

Member
dan p said:
Hi to all and many believers say that Baptism is still necessary or will say it is symbolic , but does not save .

In Matt 3:2 , John is saying , REPENT ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

The Kingdom of heaven is given to Israel and speaks to the 1000 year reign of Christ and what is known as the Millennial Kingdom .

Who is the YE ??

By the context , John is speaking to Jews !

Also notice that Repentance is tied to water Baptism in verse 11 .

In John 1:31 , John says this , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be MADE KNOWN to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with water , NOT to be made known to Gentiles ?

The conclusion is , Repentamce and Water were for Israel and not for GENTILES .

I have NEVER seen where Repentance and Water Baptism were given to The Gentiles or the Body of Christ and Paul was not yet saved OR had he written that there was such a thing as the Body of Christ .
dan p
Click to expand...

to name a few Acts 10,11,13,14,15,26,28 , Romans 3,9,15 , 1 Corinthians 12 , Galations 3 , Ephesians 3 , 2 Timothy 4
unless your going to say that when the message was to given to the Gentiles not all of the message was given. and of course you ignore a lot of verses.

FOA
 
D

dan p

Member
faithofabraham said:
to name a few Acts 10,11,13,14,15,26,28 , Romans 3,9,15 , 1 Corinthians 12 , Galations 3 , Ephesians 3 , 2 Timothy 4
unless your going to say that when the message was to given to the Gentiles not all of the message was given. and of course you ignore a lot of verses.

FOA
Click to expand...

Hi foa , and will be glad to discuss any of the verses that you have written above , that you feel rebuts what I have written , but one at a time , dan p
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
dan p said:
Hi to all and many believers say that Baptism is still necessary or will say it is symbolic , but does not save .

In Matt 3:2 , John is saying , REPENT ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

The Kingdom of heaven is given to Israel and speaks to the 1000 year reign of Christ and what is known as the Millennial Kingdom .

Who is the YE ??

By the context , John is speaking to Jews !

Also notice that Repentance is tied to water Baptism in verse 11 .

In John 1:31 , John says this , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be MADE KNOWN to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with water , NOT to be made known to Gentiles ?

The conclusion is , Repentamce and Water were for Israel and not for GENTILES .

I have NEVER seen where Repentance and Water Baptism were given to The Gentiles or the Body of Christ and Paul was not yet saved OR had he written that there was such a thing as the Body of Christ .
dan p
Click to expand...
I love your addition!
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. AV

A gentile could become a convert, learn Torah, give up idol worship, bring a sacrifice, go to a mikveh/baptism.
 
D

dan p

Member
Ronald said:
I love your addition!
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. AV

A gentile could become a convert, learn Torah, give up idol worship, bring a sacrifice, go to a mikveh/baptism.
Click to expand...

Hi Ronald , and that is eaxactly what Cornelius had to do in Acts b10:46 , dan p
 
james2ko

james2ko

Well-Known Member
dan p said:
The conclusion is , Repentamce and Water were for Israel and not for GENTILES .
Click to expand...

The Greek word for baptized is baptizo which means to "immerse". Faith and repentance are conditions which precede baptism (Acts 2:38) by immersion in water (John 3:23; Acts 8:36-39). Cornelius, a repentant Gentile, was baptized or immersed in water (Acts 10:47). Three thousand repentant Jews were baptized and received the holy spirit (Acts 2:41). Therefore, we can conclude from scripture that anyone who believes, repents, and is immersed in water (baptized) in Christ's name will be saved:

Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.​
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
These are my own thoughts interpretations and beliefs ....
So Biblical Scholars might well reject them.....

God's love and our Free Will

God's Love and his Holy spirit are all pervading.

From the moment we are born we are embraced by his Holy Spirit
From that moment, it Guides and comforts us.
It is not an optional extra, It is not a club we have to join, it is not a choice we have to make, it is not exclusive to certain religions.
It does not depend on Faith, Baptism or any thought or act of our own.

Our Free Will is given by God so that we have choice in all things.

This includes faith, morals, actions, beliefs and desires.
We are absolutely free to resist God and his Holy Spirit
Our life and the way we live it is our own choice. We are never his slaves.

God's love and our free will have existed for all time.




Jesus instituted two sacraments: Baptism and the Eucharist.


Baptism
Baptism as ritual washing was a Jewish practice. It is more difficult to understand the effect of Christian Baptism. It certainty has two parts one to do with church membership, and the other spiritual.

( as I explained above) At birth we are subsumed by the Holy spirit. So this can not be necessary again at baptism.

What are we left with? It can only concern free will.
It is an act we must do ourselves.
We confess and repent our sins, we acknowledge the presence of the holy spirit with in us, we pledge ourselves to God and to follow Jesus.

This does not explain Infant baptism, which perhaps is to do with Church membership and the Child's sponsors and community, who promise before each other and before God to bring up that child as a Christian.
 
D

dan p

Member
james2ko said:
The Greek word for baptized is baptizo which means to "immerse". Faith and repentance are conditions which precede baptism (Acts 2:38) by immersion in water (John 3:23; Acts 8:36-39). Cornelius, a repentant Gentile, was baptized or immersed in water (Acts 10:47). Three thousand repentant Jews were baptized and received the holy spirit (Acts 2:41). Therefore, we can conclude from scripture that anyone who believes, repents, and is immersed in water (baptized) in Christ's name will be saved:
Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
​
Click to expand...

Hi james2ko , and the only ones that were Immersed were during Noah's flood and they were drowned . dan p
 
james2ko

james2ko

Well-Known Member
dan p said:
Hi james2ko , and the only ones that were Immersed were during Noah's flood and they were drowned . dan p
Click to expand...

That's because they failed to meet the other criterion required for salvation in Mar 16:16---belief.
 
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esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
Well rabbis call a tevul yom, one who has immersed oneself in a miqveh, (ritual bath) during daytime to remove his impurity, even though sunset is many hours away. Is a person pure or impure? Must one wait the full time until sundown? The Halakhie Letter (from the Dead Sea Scrolls) argues that only on sundown is one ritually pure. The rabbis, as we know from the Mishna, allowed such a person to be in a state between true purity and true impurity. So, is baptism a form of a ritual bath adopted by the Christian sects?
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
If one hears the "Word of God" believes and asks for God to save him, he is saved and will be in the resurrection of the Just.

Shalom
 
D

dan p

Member
Hi , and 1 Peter 3:20 is not written to the Body of Christ , it is written to Israel as 1 Peter 2:9 shows to all .

Peter is an apostle to the nation of Israel and the apostles will sit on 12 thrones judging Israel .

Nowhere , in the bible is Baptism given to Gentiles .

Baptism was given to the Jews as John 1:31 , " but that He should be made KNOWN to Israel ( not Gentiles ) therefore am I come Baptizing with water .
dan p
 
Green Kepi

Green Kepi

Active Member
dan p said:
Hi , and 1 Peter 3:20 is not written to the Body of Christ , it is written to Israel as 1 Peter 2:9 shows to all .

Peter is an apostle to the nation of Israel and the apostles will sit on 12 thrones judging Israel .

Nowhere , in the bible is Baptism given to Gentiles .

Baptism was given to the Jews as John 1:31 , " but that He should be made KNOWN to Israel ( not Gentiles ) therefore am I come Baptizing with water .
dan p
Click to expand...

Wow! How do you get this? 1 Peter is written to offer encouragement to suffering Christians! It is written to Jewish Christians driven out of Jerusalem and scattered throughout Asia Minor, and all believers everywhere.

And...wow! Do you 'twist' John 1:31! Do you even know the mission of John? He came proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah!
 
D

dan p

Member
Green Kepi said:
Wow! How do you get this? 1 Peter is written to offer encouragement to suffering Christians! It is written to Jewish Christians driven out of Jerusalem and scattered throughout Asia Minor, and all believers everywhere.

And...wow! Do you 'twist' John 1:31! Do you even know the mission of John? He came proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah!
Click to expand...

Hi , and not to offend you , but what kind of English do you read ?/

John 1:31 , " but that He should be made manifest , or make known to Israel ", did you miss something here ?

dan p
 
S

Strength & Honor

Member
dan p said:
I have NEVER seen where Repentance and Water Baptism were given to The Gentiles or the Body of Christ and Paul was not yet saved OR had he written that there was such a thing as the Body of Christ .
Click to expand...
So, Paul hadn't mentioned it, therefore it did not exist?

dan p said:
that is eaxactly what Cornelius had to do in Acts b10:46
Click to expand...
Kindly show us where Cornelius and his family were converted to Judaism, learned the Torah, and brought a sacrifice between Acts 10:33 and Acts 10:48 before being baptized.
 
S

Strength & Honor

Member
dan p said:
The Kingdom of heaven is given to Israel and speaks to the 1000 year reign of Christ and what is known as the Millennial Kingdom .
Click to expand...
I have never agreed with this view. To me, it seems not only to simply contradict scripture, but it detracts from God's omniscience.

dan p said:
In John 1:31 , John says this , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be MADE KNOWN to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with water , NOT to be made known to Gentiles ?
Click to expand...
John the Baptist did not have the full revelation of God's plan. So, it is unreasonable to expect him to know that Christ intended to come to the Gentiles.

dan p said:
Repentamce and Water were for Israel and not for GENTILES .
Click to expand...
And yet Jesus told the Apostles to make disciples of all creation by baptizing them! (Mk 16:16-16; Mt 28:19). How do you interpret that?
 
D

dan p

Member
Strength & Honor said:
So, Paul hadn't mentioned it, therefore it did not exist?


Kindly show us where Cornelius and his family were converted to Judaism, learned the Torah, and brought a sacrifice between Acts 10:33 and Acts 10:48 before being baptized.
Click to expand...

Hi , and Paul only preach Grace and in Eph 4:5 writes about ONE Baptism , while the OT talks about 12 different kinds of Baptism , and do a word study on Baptism and see .

Since , Cornelius accepted Baptism by water and spoke in tongues in Acts 10:45 , Cornelius could ONLY go and be a Jew , since there were no Christians at that time and from Acts 10:2 and from Rom 2:26 was qualified to be a proselyte . dan p
 
D

dan p

Member
[

And yet Jesus told the Apostles to make disciples of all creation by baptizing them! (Mk 16:16-16; Mt 28:19). How do you interpret that?[/quote]

Hi , and I will have to write what ETHNOS , means and how the Gospels used that Greek , word , maybe Tuesday , dan p
 
S

Strength & Honor

Member
dan p said:
Paul only preach Grace and in Eph 4:5 writes about ONE Baptism , while the OT talks about 12 different kinds of Baptism
Click to expand...
Paul does not preach Grace only - not by a long shot. What do you think his "one baptism" refers to? Since the OT, as Paul himself puts it, was "nailed to the cross," that rules out any kind mentioned in it, suggesting a completely new kind of baptism altogether.

dan p said:
Since , Cornelius accepted Baptism by water and spoke in tongues in Acts 10:45 , Cornelius could ONLY go and be a Jew , since there were no Christians at that time and from Acts 10:2 and from Rom 2:26 was qualified to be a proselyte .
Click to expand...
No other Christians? The Apostles converted 3,000 people in Acts 2. What were those people "added" to (Acts 2:41) if they were already Jews? The answer is the same thing that Cornelius was added to: The Body of Christ!
 
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