For those who say that we stop existing once we die.

then how is it that a living person can see a dead person

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who alive has really seen a dead person.

dreams do not count as that is imagination while sleeping

Noaidi said:

well, spookily enough, I prayed really, really hard for a vision of the missile, then I checked on Wiki and, to my amazement, it was just as I had visualised it: long, pointy and everything! Here's a link to prove its long-ness and pointy-ness:

Shahab-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Haha, yea. But did you get all of the details right?
What else did you think about it other than being long and pointy?
You didn't mention its base having those 'wings-like stuff' [or whatever it is called], for example.

Koldo said:

Haha, yea. But did you get all of the details right?
What else did you think about it other than being long and pointy?
You didn't mention its base having those 'wings-like stuff' [or whatever it is called], for example.

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Yep, got the wing-stuff too. Plus loads more in my vision:
Diameter1.2 m (3 ft 11 in)WarheadOne (990 kg/2,200 lb) - five cluster warheads in new models (280 kg/620 lb) each warhead, each warhead can target different destinations.EngineLiquid & Solid (for models made after 2006)
Operational
range1,930 km (1,200 mi)Speed5,500 km/h (3,400 mph), 2.1 mach in final phase.


Spooky, eh...?

Noaidi said:

Yep, got the wing-stuff too. Plus loads more in my vision:
Diameter1.2 m (3 ft 11 in)WarheadOne (990 kg/2,200 lb) - five cluster warheads in new models (280 kg/620 lb) each warhead, each warhead can target different destinations.EngineLiquid & Solid (for models made after 2006)
Operational
range1,930 km (1,200 mi)Speed5,500 km/h (3,400 mph), 2.1 mach in final phase.


Spooky, eh...?

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Couldn't you even have ,at least, taken the links from wikipedia out?
Oh no...let me guess, you imagined that too. :angel2:

eselam said:

is that all you've got?

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No i have much much more.

However most of it is highly derogatory.

I guess the question i really should have asked is "are you really that ignorant of the workings of the human mind that you have to create a mythological explanation?"

Wouldn't it be better if you actually researched the reason instead?

-Q

I've dreamed that I could fly, that I was super strong, that I've been stabbed a hundred times, and that I've been running naked. All of those have NEVER happened....................well okay except running naked.

eselam said:

if you believe that once we die we stop existing, meaning there is no afterlife and all and we just vanish, then how is it that a living person can see a dead person who according to those of the above thinking it wold be impossible as something that doesn't exist cannot be seen nor imagined.

everyone knows we cannot imagine/see something that doesn't exist, so after a person dies and stops existing why do we still see them in our dreams? if your answer is going to be because of our memory of them when they were alive, then what about those people who see someone thats dead but that never met in real life?

any explanations regarding your views?

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Let me get this. Your position is that if we see something in our dreams, then it exists in reality? Seriously?

eselam said:

i can visualise things in my mind, what i mean by imagine is that we see a car then latter we can visualise it in our mind, but if we haven't seen something and it doesn't exist how is it that we can imagine (visualise) it?

example, tell me what the iranian missile called Shahab 3 looks like if you haven't seen it. do not look it up please.

if you do not know what it looks like although it exists, then how is it possible to see something that doesn't exist, like a dead person?

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What you're alleging happens is that someone dreams about someone they don't recognize, then later they see a picture and say, "That's the person I dreamed about," and someone else says, "That person is dead." That's the scenario you're describing? I'm skeptical this has ever happened.

If the things I've dreamed of exist we are all in trouble....

Autodidact said:

What you're alleging happens is that someone dreams about someone they don't recognize, then later they see a picture and say, "That's the person I dreamed about," and someone else says, "That person is dead." That's the scenario you're describing? I'm skeptical this has ever happened.

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Not simply dreaming about someone else. He is talking about actually seeing this dead person while you are awake.

eselam: You see dead people?

eselam said:

what about those people who see someone thats dead but that never met in real life?

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how does a person know who ever they dreamed about was dead?

eselam said:

if you believe that once we die we stop existing, meaning there is no afterlife and all and we just vanish, then how is it that a living person can see a dead person who according to those of the above thinking it wold be impossible as something that doesn't exist cannot be seen nor imagined.

everyone knows we cannot imagine/see something that doesn't exist, so after a person dies and stops existing why do we still see them in our dreams? if your answer is going to be because of our memory of them when they were alive, then what about those people who see someone thats dead but that never met in real life?

any explanations regarding your views?

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We don't intrinsically stop existing. Just the molecular construct dissolves of which enables ego, of which is referred to as "we" or "I". Whereas on an atomic level, thus responsible for the manifestation which brings the phenomena of life through proper conditions, yet remains intact.

As far as dreams goes and such, there are similarities and characteristics abounding of which we associate and relate with ourselves in life to which can be attributed to those we had never met in life.

eselam said:

i
everyone knows we cannot imagine/see something that doesn't exist

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Obviously the "imagine" portion must be a mistake on your part(I'm imagining a 12 eyed dragon with 6 legs as we speak), but even the "see something" portion is totally false. Even sane people can have hallucinations.Charles Bonnet Syndrome

Amill said:

Obviously the "imagine" portion must be a mistake on your part(I'm imagining a 12 eyed dragon with 6 legs as we speak), but even the "see something" portion is totally false. Even sane people can have hallucinations.Charles Bonnet Syndrome

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Man that's a perfect example.

This is a video of one of the eminent neurologists talking about Charles Bonnet Syndrome

Oliver Sacks: What hallucination reveals about our minds | Video on TED.com

-Q

eselam said:

if your answer is going to be because of our memory of them when they were alive, then what about those people who see someone thats dead but that never met in real life?

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Did they actually see that person? How do you know? In police investigations, for example, it is quite common for witnesses who examine a line-up of suspects to identify the wrong person. It is well-known in psychology that people are actually not great at remembering what they saw. That is why eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. People don't form complete memories, instead they form sketchy memories and they (unconsciously) fill in the gaps later.

So for example, suppose you see an old lady in your dream. Then I show you a picture of my deceased grandmother. Then you say, yes, that's the woman you saw in your dream. How do we know that you really saw this exact woman, not any other, in your dream? You could be mistaken. Simply by looking at the photo, your brain could have unconsciously filled in the gaps in your memory with the details of the photo.

What would really be stronger evidence is if you learned something specific in the dream that couldn't be known, unless my grandmother contacted you from the dead. Maybe she gives you her social security number and her name. That kind of information is stronger evidence because the validity of a social security number does not depend on anyone's subjective judgments. On the other hand, the resemblance of two old ladies -- one in your dream, one in my photo -- depends crucially on your subjective judgment and memory; so, it's very weak evidence.

If you can't always remember a photograph correctly, can you always remember a dream you had hours ago correctly?

Several studies have been conducted on human memory and on subjects’ propensity to remember erroneously events and details that did not occur. Elizabeth Loftus performed experiments in the mid-seventies demonstrating the effect of a third party’s introducing false facts into memory.4 Subjects were shown a slide of a car at an intersection with either a yield sign or a stop sign. Experimenters asked participants questions, falsely introducing the term "stop sign" into the question instead of referring to the yield sign participants had actually seen. Similarly, experimenters falsely substituted the term "yield sign" in questions directed to participants who had actually seen the stop sign slide. The results indicated that subjects remembered seeing the false image. In the initial part of the experiment, subjects also viewed a slide showing a car accident. Some subjects were later asked how fast the cars were traveling when they "hit" each other, others were asked how fast the cars were traveling when they "smashed" into each other. Those subjects questioned using the word "smashed" were more likely to report having seen broken glass in the original slide. The introduction of false cues altered participants’ memories.

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http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue One/fisher&tversky.htm

eselam said:

if you believe that once we die we stop existing, meaning there is no afterlife and all and we just vanish, then how is it that a living person can see a dead person who according to those of the above thinking it wold be impossible as something that doesn't exist cannot be seen nor imagined.

everyone knows we cannot imagine/see something that doesn't exist, so after a person dies and stops existing why do we still see them in our dreams? if your answer is going to be because of our memory of them when they were alive, then what about those people who see someone thats dead but that never met in real life?

any explanations regarding your views?

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Regardless of whether something is considered living or dead there is no fundamental difference between the constituent atoms making them up, its all atoms. What you are doing is trying to impose human defined catagories on the natural world where they just don't exist. Humans like the catagorise the world because by putting things in nice tidy boxes makes the world easier to understand but the natural doesn't often fit in to nice tidy boxes so its important to realise that catagories need to be applied carefully and their limitations recognised.

This is a problem for your questions because it undermines the assumptions you have made regarding life and non-life. Our memories of what we experience are lain down irrespective of whether or not the subject matter is considered to be alive or dead. Humans able to communicate information to other humans at which point it is recorded in the receiving humans memory regardless of the subject matter that has been communicated. We have to be careful of how much we believe information that has been communicated to us because we haven't experienced those events ourselves and therefore have no means of objectively assessing the informations validity.

I would also challenge your claim that we can't imagine something which doesn't exist because there are countless artists and writers out there who have produced fantastical creatures and environments which to our knowledge have never existed.

Mr Spinkles said:

Did they actually see that person? How do you know? In police investigations, for example, it is quite common for witnesses who examine a line-up of suspects to identify the wrong person. It is well-known in psychology that people are actually not great at remembering what they saw. That is why eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. People don't form complete memories, instead they form sketchy memories and they (unconsciously) fill in the gaps later.

So for example, suppose you see an old lady in your dream. Then I show you a picture of my deceased grandmother. Then you say, yes, that's the woman you saw in your dream. How do we know that you really saw this exact woman, not any other, in your dream? You could be mistaken. Simply by looking at the photo, your brain could have unconsciously filled in the gaps in your memory with the details of the photo.

What would really be stronger evidence is if you learned something specific in the dream that couldn't be known, unless my grandmother contacted you from the dead. Maybe she gives you her social security number and her name. That kind of information is stronger evidence because the validity of a social security number does not depend on anyone's subjective judgments. On the other hand, the resemblance of two old ladies -- one in your dream, one in my photo -- depends crucially on your subjective judgment and memory; so, it's very weak evidence.

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I don't think he is talking about dreams in specific.

eselam said:

if you believe that once we die we stop existing, meaning there is no afterlife and all and we just vanish, then how is it that a living person can see a dead person who according to those of the above thinking it wold be impossible as something that doesn't exist cannot be seen nor imagined.

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Are you saying that everything ever imagined has to actually exist?
The Flying Spaghetti Monster has to exist, right, because it cannot be imagined unless it exists?
As do all the other gods and monsters from all the legends and myths, right?
Minotaurs, Griffins, Rocs, djin, Harpies, unicorns, centaurs, nymphs, hippocampus, pegasus, Medusa, Thor, Zeus, Hercules, etc. all exist as well, right?

eselam said:

everyone knows we cannot imagine/see something that doesn't exist,

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Actually, as written, this is just flat out not true.

eselam said:

so after a person dies and stops existing why do we still see them in our dreams? if your answer is going to be because of our memory of them when they were alive, then what about those people who see someone thats dead but that never met in real life?

any explanations regarding your views?

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Seeing as your whole position seems to be based upon a premise that is just flat out not true....