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Why did God choose fire and why forever?

Vendetta

"Oscar the grouch"
I don't understand the significance of fire and why heat or a place where fire is the abode of sinners. What is its significance? Also why forever? The problem I have is in the hereafter there is no forgiveness. There was a quote in the movie "The Prophecy" where Lucifer towards the end says (I quote imperfectly) "hell is not a lake of fire or chains of ice, but being removed from the sight of God and having his word taken from you."
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the significance of fire and why heat or a place where fire is the abode of sinners. What is its significance? Also why forever? The problem I have is in the hereafter there is no forgiveness. There was a quote in the movie "The Prophecy" where Lucifer towards the end says (I quote imperfectly) "hell is not a lake of fire or chains of ice, but being removed from the sight of God and having his word taken from you."

And you believe what Lucifer said instead of what Jesus said? That's your preference anyway.

Now fire is the penalty for angels ad angels are powerful enough to practise to dogde any punishment but fire. Forever because freewills choose to sin forever.
 

Vendetta

"Oscar the grouch"
And you believe what Lucifer said instead of what Jesus said? That's your preference anyway.

Now fire is the penalty for angels ad angels are powerful enough to practise to dogde any punishment but fire. Forever because freewills choose to sin forever.

I don't believe in lucifer's existence first off. Second, that quote was from a movie. Third, I found that quote interesting because the greatest pain any soul can feel (should one exist) is the removal of God from it. Because we all were "created in God's image" it seems to me that being removed from God's sight is a far greater torment than hellfire. That means one may be alone in the void alone or with other tormented souls.

If you think about it, psychologically speaking if a child is removed from a parent the child would experience distress. If God is removed from the spirit perhaps there is a metaphysical phenomenon where the soul experiences distress of some sort.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
I don't believe in lucifer's existence first off. Second, that quote was from a movie. Third, I found that quote interesting because the greatest pain any soul can feel (should one exist) is the removal of God from it. Because we all were "created in God's image" it seems to me that being removed from God's sight is a far greater torment than hellfire. That means one may be alone in the void alone or with other tormented souls.

If you think about it, psychologically speaking if a child is removed from a parent the child would experience distress. If God is removed from the spirit perhaps there is a metaphysical phenomenon where the soul experiences distress of some sort.

The whole story is, God created a mechanism for the generation of humans to be staying in heaven. Satan makes use of the same mechanism to produce something else. That says about the parable of wheat and weeds.

So God produces only the wheat but not the weeds. That is, same field (mechanism), 2 very similar products (weeds and wheat, weeds are refereing to a special kind of plant very much similar to wheat in early age and undistinguishable till the wheat become mature).
 
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Vendetta

"Oscar the grouch"
The whole story is, God created a mechanism for the generation of humans to be staying in heaven. Satan makes use of the same mechanism to produce something else. That says about the parable of wheat and weeds.

So God produces only the wheat but not the weeds. That is, same field (mechanism), 2 very similar products (weeds and wheat, weeds are refereing to a special kind of plant very much similar to wheat in early age and undistinguishable till the wheat become mature).

So again why does choose fire and why is this torment everlasting? A human lives on average 70 years old yet his or her torment is to infinity.....

Going back to your earlier remark how does a demon dodge all of God's punishment except fire? That makes God impotent doesn't it?
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
For some reason, religious look at the clouds and sun shining through the clouds as heaven and red hot lava as hell. IMO, I think hell came from volcanic activity and the "burning" that was caused by eruptions. This was passed on and accepted as the fire and brimstone crap portrayed in today's hell. Again this is my opinion.
 

Frank Merton

Active Member
If one knows one cannot die, then pain loses its meaning. It is the dread and fear associated with pain that makes it "hurt." Absent them, pain is just a sensation.
 

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
Why is it that people assume that it was God who choose the association of fire to hell? If you think about it; rather or not if you have a soul, you have a brain. Just by being human and how you interact with things and associate your feelings toward them, gives you the ability to know right and wrong. Some choose to interchange right with not only good, but pleasurable experiences, and wrong with bad or pain. As far as the eternity thing, in mu opinion that is just humanity trying to associate with the time continuum. The question I would like to be answered in association to "eternal fire" is; If you believe in God (He being the Creator and Final Judge of All), then why is it that people choose to think they are needed to make a judgment of the soul? Isn't it said that He knows us more than we know ourselves, so how is it we think we can judge others when we do not know ourselves enough to pass self judgment?
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
This isn't a simple answer, but I will try to be as basic as possible. It wasn't until the Persians conquered Palestine that the idea of a hell with fire started to form. That was primarily because some groups of Jews were influenced by the Persian idea of dualism (not saying that it is strictly a Persian idea).

With this idea of dualism, a new form of hell began forming (again, just among some Jews). It was also at this time that an adversary of God was beginning to be formed. However, these ideas were not formed until sometime after the life of Jesus.

Hell slowly changed from a place of separation from God (there were other ideas as well), to one of a punishment by fire (and even then, it changed quite a bit from one group to another).

I think the big reason why hell became really stressed with fire and brimstone though was later in order to scare people into seats. From what I can tell, there wasn't too much discussion about hell in the early formation of the church (not to say it was completely absent though).
 

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

~Mark 9:48 KJV

What everybody knows is that "hell" comes from the Jewish term for burning trash outside of their abodes. What everybody may not know is that after the fires died down, worms could be found amongst the ash. This quote of Jesus comes from Isaiah, and is based upon imaginative speculation - what if the fire never stopped burning (likely brought about from consideration of the sun), what if the worms were lived through the flames.

In the Old Testament, the wages of sin were definitely death. Tie your shoes on the Sabbath, yer done; probably horribly... but that's it. From Ecclesiastes, the dead know nothing. The line from Mark, above, is notable as it is the only transitional tie-in between Old and New Testaments concerning "after." Like many other places in the NT, it shows "the agenda of the Christ" in relating OT scripture. This is important as to the agenda of the scriptures themselves. OT scripture was penned to keep a tribe of nomads (the Jews) toeing the line of their god, YHWH. The NT, however, had a new agenda - spread the word among the gentiles. Think of how far that would have went with 617 commandments that must be followed, or else... not far. Thus, "sanctity in the Lord" was removed from worldly concern into the "after." Be good now, or be burnt later; with the advantage that the sinner has his whole lifetime to "see the light."

So, get it right. :D Never was god with the burning. God is too cool for that crap. It was agenda.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I still think the fire started with gehenna

a 24/7 burning garbage dump where sinners bodys were burned instead of buried. There was even supposed to a gate to the path on the way to the dump. At night it was said to look like a lake of fire.

I think what fallingblood said is true but gehenna/the valley of hinom is what really progressed the hellenistic view .

hell evolved in the bible over a 1500+ year period.
 

Twig pentagram

High Priest
I don't understand the significance of fire and why heat or a place where fire is the abode of sinners. What is its significance? Also why forever? The problem I have is in the hereafter there is no forgiveness. There was a quote in the movie "The Prophecy" where Lucifer towards the end says (I quote imperfectly) "hell is not a lake of fire or chains of ice, but being removed from the sight of God and having his word taken from you."
Writing something in a book does not make it a fact. I truly think that the people who created the bible had no contact with anything but thier imagination.
 

Vendetta

"Oscar the grouch"
Why is it that people assume that it was God who choose the association of fire to hell? If you think about it; rather or not if you have a soul, you have a brain. Just by being human and how you interact with things and associate your feelings toward them, gives you the ability to know right and wrong. Some choose to interchange right with not only good, but pleasurable experiences, and wrong with bad or pain. As far as the eternity thing, in mu opinion that is just humanity trying to associate with the time continuum. The question I would like to be answered in association to "eternal fire" is; If you believe in God (He being the Creator and Final Judge of All), then why is it that people choose to think they are needed to make a judgment of the soul? Isn't it said that He knows us more than we know ourselves, so how is it we think we can judge others when we do not know ourselves enough to pass self judgment?

No offense but this response was silly. My question was obviously towards those of the abrahamic faith. My question pertains to why fire, heat, burning are persistent in death?inbdesth.ncc
 

Vendetta

"Oscar the grouch"
Basically what I was saying was how do you know that god chose anything.

Well for one, common Christian Eschatology states that hell is composed of demons and fire which also consists of different levels for the different sins (see Dantes Inferno). So my understanding of the Christian view of hell came from that. Similarly, Islam says the same thing such as humans being fed boiling water and other sinners burning (whose flesh burns off and regenerates). This is where I get my understanding.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
So people like me will never again need a lighter!:p

I think it has to do with an innate fear of fire. It burns, it's destroys, it causes great pain and death, it destroys homes, livestock, and crop, it is used in war as a weapon and to cause fear, and it terrifies alot of people when it isn't in a controlled situation.
 
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