Caution: Homosexuality Dangerous to Health

sankazhria16 · Aug 24, 2004

Let me just get on the record here as being a devout Christian who has absolutely no problem with homosexuality. It seems as though the Christian side of this debate has been woefully skewed anti-gay. God and Jesus teach tolerance of others, and love. How can homosexual love or sex as a physical expression of that love be condemned, if they merely come from love and commitment to another human being?

Not that I believe in literal translation of the Bible, but it condemns having wealth many more times than homosexualiy, especially in the New Testament. This is the epitome of 'cafeteria christian' hypocrisy. If you want to say that you are entitled to have more wealth than other people, or that you do not tolerate people that are different from you because of who they love, then your Christianity is very different from my own.

Littlenipper, I do not judge you as a bad Christian, because my God teaches me not to judge other people. I merely disagree with you vehemently.

I have two methods of wading through the Bible's contradictions: Jesus' example and his teachings, and love. Jesus taught love, tolerance, pacifism, and communism. I see in no way how homosexuality conflicts with Jesus' teachings. Also, condemning homosexuals and their love for each other is not love, therefore it is not Christian.

Furthermore, killing and murder are the same thing and are sins, because they hurt other people and contradict love. Jesus taught to 'turn the other cheek' struck by another. He didn't say 'turn the other cheek and then shoot the terrorists.'

Christ be with you all, it's midnight and i'm going to sleep

MarkT · Aug 25, 2004

It's evident most people think it's wrong. It's unnatural. It's also normal to act according to your conscience.

Why do some people want to further normalize this behaviour? ie. gay marriage.

It must be to promote it as a human right.

I guess these are the same people who want to legalise prostitution and marijuana. Imagine a gay or hetero prostitute on every street corner trying to sell you their body or some drugs. Now what kind of example is that setting?

Could the unholy alliance that exists between the atheists and the homosexuals have anything to do with getting the Bible banned?

The Bible tells us it's unnatural. That would make it hate literature. Ironically, if it became a human right, it would incite people to hate Christians.

Now I disagree with the way homosexuals define themselves. ie based on sexual orientation. What's that? A drug addict is oriented towards drugs, an alcoholic towards alcohol, a pedophile towards children. So orientation's just another word for their perverted behavior.

And what makes this behavior so special it deserves "minority" status? And what makes people think kids wouldn't experiment? I think it could have a tremendous impact on society. You see white kids imitating black kids. Girls imitating boys. Why wouldn't kids imitate the cool homosexuals?

MarkT · Aug 25, 2004

One of the things we should never accept is the link between love and sex. Sex is the desire of the flesh. It has nothing to do with love. Love is the reponse to being listened to. Don't we love those who listen to us, especially when we ask for something. To receive Gods love, we have to listen to Him.

It's possible gays love one another. So what? I don't hate them. But their behavior should never be normalized and I think that's their agenda.

Pah · Aug 25, 2004

MarkT said:
One of the things we should never accept is the link between love and sex. Sex is the desire of the flesh. It has nothing to do with love. Love is the reponse to being listened to. Don't we love those who listen to us, especially when we ask for something. To receive Gods love, we have to listen to Him.

If love is wasted as a reward for others listening, it hardly deserves the effort to listen.. It's not really love - it's more like an ego trip, a star and his groupies. The greatest love is given unconditionally with the utmost capability. I'm sorry your God put's a price on it.

From your description of sex and love, it sounds like you've had neither. I'm sorry again if that's true.

It's possible gays love one another. So what? I don't hate them. But their behavior should never be normalized and I think that's their agenda.

If you hate what makes a homosexual a homosexual then you do hate them for you deny with hatred what is a core definition of their being.

Homosexual behavior is an intregal part of the range of sexuality throughout the creation your God made. I'm sure you're not saying you disagree with God's creation or would you?

-pah-

Green Gaia · Aug 25, 2004

LittleNipper said:
Homosexual love isn't the same either.

Why not? Who's to say that the love a man feels for is wife is stronger or better than the love a women feels for her female partner that she's been with for years? Why are you so quick to dismiss what you do not understand?

Green Gaia · Aug 25, 2004

sankazhria16 said:
Let me just get on the record here as being a devout Christian who has absolutely no problem with homosexuality. It seems as though the Christian side of this debate has been woefully skewed anti-gay. God and Jesus teach tolerance of others, and love. How can homosexual love or sex as a physical expression of that love be condemned, if they merely come from love and commitment to another human being?

Not that I believe in literal translation of the Bible, but it condemns having wealth many more times than homosexualiy, especially in the New Testament. This is the epitome of 'cafeteria christian' hypocrisy. If you want to say that you are entitled to have more wealth than other people, or that you do not tolerate people that are different from you because of who they love, then your Christianity is very different from my own.

Littlenipper, I do not judge you as a bad Christian, because my God teaches me not to judge other people. I merely disagree with you vehemently.

I have two methods of wading through the Bible's contradictions: Jesus' example and his teachings, and love. Jesus taught love, tolerance, pacifism, and communism. I see in no way how homosexuality conflicts with Jesus' teachings. Also, condemning homosexuals and their love for each other is not love, therefore it is not Christian.

Furthermore, killing and murder are the same thing and are sins, because they hurt other people and contradict love. Jesus taught to 'turn the other cheek' struck by another. He didn't say 'turn the other cheek and then shoot the terrorists.'

Christ be with you all, it's midnight and i'm going to sleep

Beautiful post. Nice to meet you, my friend.

Green Gaia · Aug 25, 2004

MarkT said:
It's evident most people think it's wrong.

Really? If it's so evident, where's your evidence?

It's unnatural.

Wrong. It's quite natural to me. It may be unnatural for you, but don't forget all the other billions of people on this planet that aren't you.

It's also normal to act according to your conscience.

Yes it is, and my conscience tells me that there is nothing wrong with me and that I should be able to live my life openly and honestly.

Why do some people want to further normalize this behaviour? ie. gay marriage.

First, it's not a behavior, it's not a lifestyle, it's how some people express their love and attraction, there is nothing wrong with it and there is nothing harmful in it. Secondly, some people want to further "normalize" homosexuality because it is normal for us. We want our relationships recognized just as heterosexuals do, ie. gay marriage.

It must be to promote it as a human right.

Marriage is fundamental human right as defined in Loving v Virginia (1967) by the US Supreme Court. Who are you to deny that to a certain group of people simply because you don't understand or like them?

I guess these are the same people who want to legalise prostitution and marijuana.

Dangerous assumption there. There are gay people opposed both of these, just as there are hetero people for them. Please do not make demeaning assumptions.

Imagine a gay or hetero prostitute on every street corner trying to sell you their body or some drugs. Now what kind of example is that setting?

This has nothing to do with homosexuality. Please try to stay on topic.

Could the unholy alliance that exists between the atheists and the homosexuals have anything to do with getting the Bible banned?

Who is trying to ban the Bible? I know many BGLT people who love and read the Bible. Could you provide some evidence of this "unholy alliance between atheists and homosexuals" ?

The Bible tells us it's unnatural.

Nope, but your interpretation of a translation of a translation can be read that way if you ignore all the cultural influences of the time and really try hard to find something that condemns BGLT people.

That would make it hate literature.

No, that makes it a historical account of how the people lived in Biblical times.

Ironically, if it became a human right, it would incite people to hate Christians.

How?

Now I disagree with the way homosexuals define themselves. ie based on sexual orientation.

We do not define ourselves by our sexual orentation, but it is a part of us and that part which some like to discriminate against us for. So, it is a part of us, but it does not define us.

What's that? A drug addict is oriented towards drugs, an alcoholic towards alcohol, a pedophile towards children. So orientation's just another word for their perverted behavior.

Then by your skewed logic the heterosexual oreintation is perverted behavior as well.

And what makes this behavior so special it deserves "minority" status?

Because we are a minority who is discriminated against based on the difference that makes us a minority.

And what makes people think kids wouldn't experiment?

Some kids do, some kids don't. Allowing BGLT people to live open and honest lives without fear or prejudice, will not change that.

I think it could have a tremendous impact on society

.
How so?

LittleNipper · Aug 25, 2004

Christians lie and BGLT's do not? Possibly you willingly accept any lie about Christians and Christian websites? What is ANTI-homosexual? I certainly don't want homosexuals murdered. I also do not wish to comfort them about their lifestyle. I feel there is truth;
however, truth doesn't make everyone very happy------it does keep them soul searching...

Green Gaia · Aug 25, 2004

LittleNipper said:
Christians lie and BGLT's do not? Possibly you willingly accept any lie about Christians and Christian websites?

LOL! Hardly. You have to understand that I see Christians in only two separate catagories; those Christians who wish to promote Jesus' teachings of love, compassion and tolerance, and then there are those Christians who use the Bible to condemn everyone else. I fully support the first group and their religion of love and compassion is a beautiful one, however the second group does more to harm the Christian religion than any atheist or homosexual ever could.

What is ANTI-homosexual?

The active discrimination and intolerance of those people not heterosexual.

I certainly don't want homosexuals murdered.

Yet you've defended skewed statistics and "facts" by someone who does...

I also do not wish to comfort them about their lifestyle.

Who said we needed your comforting? Simply leaving us alone and giving all the rights heterosexuals have would be enough, thank you.

I feel there is truth

So do I. But I don't presume that my truth is the same as yours, nor do I try to force my truth on your life.

painted wolf · Aug 25, 2004

you don't want them murdered, you just want them to 'know thier place' and to go away.

Thankfully the USA is a FREE country where the rights to LIFE LIBERTY and THE PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS are garenteed.

The truth is that it is wrong for people to force others into second-class citizen roles by denying them basic rights as human beings.

yes the truth isn't making everyone happy.... but it is still the truth.

wa:do

LittleNipper · Aug 25, 2004

painted wolf said:
you don't want them murdered, you just want them to 'know thier place' and to go away.

Thankfully the USA is a FREE country where the rights to LIFE LIBERTY and THE PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS are garenteed.

The truth is that it is wrong for people to force others into second-class citizen roles by denying them basic rights as human beings.

yes the truth isn't making everyone happy.... but it is still the truth.

wa:do

Freedom doesn't mean freedom FROM opposing views or values. You have the freedom to collectively move together and establish a community that harbors your values. However, I find it offensive that we seem to be moving as a society towards rules, views, and values that I must be accepting of, and that tolerance is ONLY tolerance if I agree to close my eyes and ears and keep my opinions to myself.

I find it wrong to force churches to marry homosexual couples. I find it wrong to mandate that private business MUST hire people who don't reflect the values that a private business was founded on. I find it wrong to force private hotels to accomodate individuals and groups that do not reflect the values of the owners.

I find it INTOLERANT, ANTI-FREEDOM, UNDEMOCRATIC, and UNAMERICAN to move the GOVERNMENT into a position of a social watchdog. There has always been places and establishments that have provided opportunities for someone else.

I am very tolerant. I listen and I respond. I don't attack and destroy and ridicule or try to be insulting. I do care and I attempt to provide a humble explanation of my religious convictions. My only prayer is I hope that the same will be extended towards me someday------however, I'm beginning to have my doubts.

HelpMe · Aug 25, 2004

Thankfully the USA is a FREE country where the rights to LIFE LIBERTY and THE PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS are garenteed.

The truth is that it is wrong for people to force others into second-class citizen roles by denying them basic rights as human beings.

The truth is also that it is wrong for people to force others to accept personally what they wish not to.What do you know about communism?We should be free to disagree just as some claim they should be free to be gay.

--S

Lightkeeper · Aug 25, 2004

I have always understood that a basic principle of Christianity is compassion. Compassion means being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you have never been gay, you have absolutely no idea or knowledge of the experience. If you have no idea or knowledge of the experience you aren't qualified to correctly comment on it. Equally so a true gay person can't identify with the heterosexual experience. Some gays have lived as heterosexuals, but they never really truly experienced it. Another Christian principle is judge not lest you be judged. Another principle is that how you treat the least of us is how you treat Jesus. I have seen all of these precepts broken in the previous posts. Bottom line, unless you have lived it, you are not knowledgeable on the subject.

HelpMe · Aug 25, 2004

basic principle of Christianity is compassion

i think it's love.similar, but not the same.

Compassion means being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

i think that would be perspective.compassion i think means being able to relate to a thing.
compassion=Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve itsyn.=pity

If you have no idea or knowledge of the experience you aren't qualified to correctly comment on it.

was 'god' a killer before he commanded us not to?was 'god' ever gay?maybe one would not be AS qualified, maybe, but they would still have a right to an opinion.the scriptures(bible) don't say don't talk about what you don't know, at least not that i know of.

Another Christian principle is judge not lest you be judged.

i believe this is referring to hypocrisy, but either way, i don't play judge of anyone other than myself.this includes reasoning why i disagree with others, which is not judging them but me.

Another principle is that how you treat the least of us is how you treat Jesus.

another principle may be that of the word...2Joh1:10-If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house or give him any greeting...i believe the doctorine has a few things to say about being gay.

...unless you have lived it, you are not knowledgeable on the subject...

then i suppose it's wrong for us to comment at all on animals, everything we claim to know, we do not know, according to this precept.perhaps dogs can see colors...

--S

Pah · Aug 25, 2004

LittleNipper said:
Freedom doesn't mean freedom FROM opposing views or values.

Yes it does.Freedom means choice. Freedom of religion means choice of religion. "No religion" is a choice. That illustration applies accross the board to all freedoms. Freedom of speech does not mean I MUST speak. Freedom of assembly does not mean I MUST join with others

You have the freedom to collectively move together and establish a community that harbors your values. However, I find it offensive that we seem to be moving as a society towards rules, views, and values that I must be accepting of, and that tolerance is ONLY tolerance if I agree to close my eyes and ears and keep my opinions to myself.

I also find it offensive when someone's community values or practises are forced on those outside the community. Private religious practise, in all its varieties, is not mandated to society as a whole but the right of individual free practise is protected by the Constitution. What this all means is that homosexuals can claim the rights of individuals in parallel with non-homosexuals and you can claim the right to practise and live as a heterosexual. The Constitution does not give you the power to extend your particular values or practises to others

I find it wrong to force churches to marry homosexual couples. I find it wrong to mandate that private business MUST hire people who don't reflect the values that a private business was founded on. I find it wrong to force private hotels to accomodate individuals and groups that do not reflect the values of the owners.

You are wrong to think that a church is forced to marry homosexuals

If the business is, in any way, a public business, it must adhere to the civil policies established under Constitutional authority.

I find it INTOLERANT, ANTI-FREEDOM, UNDEMOCRATIC, and UNAMERICAN to move the GOVERNMENT into a position of a social watchdog

Then you don't understand the Constitution or government of the US. The legislature continuously makes laws for the social good. It does so through committees that do watch what society does and what it needs. The Executive Office approves and administers those laws through watchdog Departments. The Judiciary is the only branch that has a passive role in seeing that the laws and administration of them is within Constitutional powers granted to to the other branches - it only reacts to a complaint from an individual. This sytem manifests freedom, insures democracy (by the power of the vote) and is a signature of American life.

/cut/.

I am very tolerant.

No sir, by your statements in the post you have shown yourself intolerant.

/cut/

-pah-

LittleNipper · Aug 25, 2004

Lightkeeper said:
I have always understood that a basic principle of Christianity is compassion. Compassion means being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you have never been gay, you have absolutely no idea or knowledge of the experience. If you have no idea or knowledge of the experience you aren't qualified to correctly comment on it. Equally so a true gay person can't identify with the heterosexual experience. Some gays have lived as heterosexuals, but they never really truly experienced it. Another Christian principle is judge not lest you be judged. Another principle is that how you treat the least of us is how you treat Jesus. I have seen all of these precepts broken in the previous posts. Bottom line, unless you have lived it, you are not knowledgeable on the subject.

Christ has compassion for the human experiance. HE became a man and set aside HIS glory; however, Christ never sinned. Judgement is left up to GOD and HIS Word is filled will the determination of GOD on how we should live if we wish to have joy. Christians should not judge without scriptural backing or THEY are passing judgement based on personal opinion. Personal opinion is sinful when it is contrary to GOD's precepts. Homosexuality is contray to GOD's provision of marriage. It is founded in fornication & adultery.

dolly · Aug 25, 2004

sankazhria16 Amazing post.

Maize Well said.

Pah, I agree.

Not really much for me to add.

Nipper said:
I am very tolerant... I don't attack and destroy and ridicule or try to be insulting.

So, "These are people [bisexuals] that have sex with anyone ---- perhaps anything... " isn't supposed to be insulting, huh? :annoyance:

Do you want to see an example of a tolerant Christian? Go look at Sankazhria's post.

Pah · Aug 25, 2004

Moderator action

off topic post deleted by pah

HelpMe · Aug 25, 2004

sankazhria16 said:
Furthermore, killing and murder are the same thing and are sins, because they hurt other people and contradict love.

'god' has killed people, unless you don't believe in the 'bible' i see your holding these 2 definitions parallel(sp) as a contradiction.unless 'god' is not love.

sankazhria16 said:
I see in no way how homosexuality conflicts with Jesus' teachings.

to be as simple as possible, he was the fulfillment of the law, not the abolishment of it.well...according to scripture that is.i know how general tradition holds otherwise to be so.

pah said:
Yeah - this is off-topic but so what!!!

remember the pms pah...how is hypocrisy feeling today?

--S

(Q) · Aug 25, 2004

I find it wrong to force churches to marry homosexual couples. I find it wrong to mandate that private business MUST hire people who don't reflect the values that a private business was founded on. I find it wrong to force private hotels to accomodate individuals and groups that do not reflect the values of the owners.

You Sir, are a bigot.

Caution: Homosexuality Dangerous to Health

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