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The virtues of caste system

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
just google

With all due respect, rumor is easy to create (even unintentionally) and very hard to kill.

I'm sure I can find links for "evidence" that the letter "e" is evil and should be abolished if I look hard enough. But such a vague and harmful claim such as that the "DNA composition" of "different castes" must be taken with the deepest suspicion, because it is very ill-defined to the point of falling into wishful thinking from the start.

After all, what is meant by DNA composition, and what does define a caste? Dalits, Ksatryas and Brahmans are interfertile, they are the same species. Many generations of mutual isolation may have made some genetic traits more common among some groups, but by that token I might say that, say, Finns have a different "DNA composition" from Turks, and that is just an attempt at making racism and ethnocentrism look respectable.

As for castes, it is plain to see that they are a social construct, not a god-given mandate.
 
The caste system does run contrary to the liberal idealogies of the western world in which an individual progresses or fails on the basis of his or her abilities and wilingness to work which is probably why its not particually liked in the developed world.

It does paint a nice picture but I can't help but think that like Feudal Brtain the spirituality of the people is being exploited in order to maintain their compliance with the status quo. Its also not particually suprising to see religious leaders and the soldiers at the top because whever spirituality isn't enough having soldiers with a vested interest in maintaining their position gives you the military might to stay at the top.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I'm sure I can find links for "evidence" that the letter "e" is evil and should be abolished if I look hard enough. But such a vague and harmful claim such as that the "DNA composition" of "different castes" must be taken with the deepest suspicion, because it is very ill-defined to the point of falling into wishful thinking from the start.

:clap
 

Milind2469

Member
As for castes, it is plain to see that they are a social construct, not a god-given mandate.

They are , no doubt.
Effors are being made to find out what was the reason behind it and what was the initial structure.
The DNA studies are made in secular India where all are equal, without any hidden aim to substanciate castism. They are purely scientific in nature and I suppose such studies are undertaken allover the world.

Either we have to side with the views of White European Christian missionary's 2-3 hundred years old remarks on castes that show Hindus in very poor light (with a clear intention of converting the lower castes) , which, sorry I can't do, or we have to keep looking for different theories and carry out studies (with an intention of finding the truth).

Most of the remarks in this thread side with the first, without even considering different opinions/ theories/ possibilities. That is like saying plainly that Hindus were dirty - stupid - racist- criminals which is difficult for me to believe considering their great history.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The caste system does run contrary to the liberal idealogies of the western world in which an individual progresses or fails on the basis of his or her abilities and wilingness to work which is probably why its not particually liked in the developed world.

It does paint a nice picture but I can't help but think that like Feudal Brtain the spirituality of the people is being exploited in order to maintain their compliance with the status quo. Its also not particually suprising to see religious leaders and the soldiers at the top because whever spirituality isn't enough having soldiers with a vested interest in maintaining their position gives you the military might to stay at the top.

That's probably what happened, and would explain the current state of the system and why I and others reject it.
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
I realize this is a little off-topic, but I thought the author of the OP might know a good place for me to get my latest article published. It is called "The Virtues of The Inquisition". I was also thinking about writing an essay but worried I might have trouble getting it printed--it's called "The Value of Child Pornography". And I wrote a short work a couple of years ago that has had trouble finding a publisher called "The Value of Sweat Shops". Any help with these would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I realize this is a little off-topic, but I thought the author of the OP might know a good place for me to get my latest article published. It is called "The Virtues of The Inquisition". I was also thinking about writing an essay but worried I might have trouble getting it printed--it's called "The Value of Child Pornography". And I wrote a short work a couple of years ago that has had trouble finding a publisher called "The Value of Sweat Shops". Any help with these would be greatly appreciated.

Got any real arguments you want to bring to the table, or continue to make unjustified comparisons that may or may not prove to be accurate?

After all, I'm against the caste system as it became, but I think all the above things you mentioned are FAR worse to the point that any comparison is, at best, inaccurate, and at worst, unfair.
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Got any real arguments you want to bring to the table, or continue to make unjustified comparisons that may or may not prove to be accurate?

After all, I'm against the caste system as it became, but I think all the above things you mentioned are FAR worse to the point that any comparison is, at best, inaccurate, and at worst, unfair.


Got any real arguments you want to bring to the table other than a nonexistent defense of a socially mal-contrusted, arbitrary mechanism for placing undue values on human existence.

And you can claim out of one side of your mouth that you are against a caste system all you want, but then spit out defenses for it and B-S attacks against those who treat it with contempt at the same time ... it just makes you look foolish, or at least that is my humble opinion.

You don't like my comparison? Tough. I stand by it. And furthermore, I think your reply evidences a hypocrisy that is shameful. But hey, that's just me.
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
... I think all the above things you mentioned are FAR worse to the point that any comparison is, at best, inaccurate, and at worst, unfair.


And, by the way, who in the hell ever said I was trying to be "fair" to those who favor a caste system or spout-off inane defenses about the merits of its "Virtues"?

If you think I want to be fair to people like that, let me state for the record that I do not. And to be honest, I don't really care what you think about this or any other of my comparisons.
 

Milind2469

Member
And, by the way, who in the hell ever said I was trying to be "fair" to those who favor a caste system or spout-off inane defenses about the merits of its "Virtues"?

If you think I want to be fair to people like that, let me state for the record that I do not. And to be honest, I don't really care what you think about this or any other of my comparisons.

Do you approve of discussion forums or debates of any kind?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I realize this is a little off-topic, but I thought the author of the OP might know a good place for me to get my latest article published. It is called "The Virtues of The Inquisition". I was also thinking about writing an essay but worried I might have trouble getting it printed--it's called "The Value of Child Pornography". And I wrote a short work a couple of years ago that has had trouble finding a publisher called "The Value of Sweat Shops". Any help with these would be greatly appreciated.
Eliot Wild...I'm shocked at your mocking & belittling of such things. To compare them with the caste system is
to bring this diabolical assignment of life roles up to their level. Victims of child porn, The Inquisition & sweat
shops at least have an opportunity to rise above their low station in life. The caste system is far more onerous,
since there is no escaping a cruel judgment imposed upon you even before you were born. Your cavalier attitude
is very unprogressive & lacking in tolerance for other cultures who just might not value liberty as you do.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/world/asia/10honor.html?pagewanted=all
 
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Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Do you approve of discussion forums or debates of any kind?


I do.

What I disapprove of is people asking questions without placing them in context and explaining their position or clearly establishing the point they're trying to make. They may think they're being "sly" and "stealthy", but they're really just showing a lack of integerity and a lack of an ability to state what they truly mean in an open and direct fashion.

I also disaprove of affirmations and defenses of failed social systems that do more harm than good while again deceptively concealing themselves as "debates" or good faith discussions.

But what I mostly disaprove of are cowards who hedge and equivocate, seeking to frame some sort of socio-religious justification for a corrupt and value-less system that has perhaps caused as much suffering as Western Slavery. But hey, that's just me.
 

Milind2469

Member
I do.

What I disapprove of is people asking questions without placing them in context and explaining their position or clearly establishing the point they're trying to make. They may think they're being "sly" and "stealthy", but they're really just showing a lack of integerity and a lack of an ability to state what they truly mean in an open and direct fashion.

I also disaprove of affirmations and defenses of failed social systems that do more harm than good while again deceptively concealing themselves as "debates" or good faith discussions.

But what I mostly disaprove of are cowards who hedge and equivocate, seeking to frame some sort of socio-religious justification for a corrupt and value-less system that has perhaps caused as much suffering as Western Slavery. But hey, that's just me.

To be honest, I dont have a 'formed' opinion on castes.
But I have have a firm opinion on Hinduism that it is the greatest thing happened to me in this life! And that the early thinkers of this faith coudn't have been stupid or dirty minded!
I accept I am definitely biased on this!
Hence my attempts to find different theories.
 
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Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Eliot Wild...I'm shocked at your mocking & belittling of such things. To compare them with the caste system is
to bring this diabolical assignment of life roles up to their level. Victims of child porn, The Inquisition & sweat
shops at least have an opportunity to rise above their low station in life. The caste system is far more onerous,
since there is no escaping a cruel judgment imposed upon you even before you were born. Your cavalier attitude
is very unprogressive & lacking in tolerance for other cultures who just might not value liberty as you do.


As always, you have shown me the wisdom my course actions are lacking. You're right, of course. I am being unfair and intolerant. I should be more accepting of antiquated social constructs that unduly objectify and oppress people.

It's only because in a former life I was a lowly cow-dung gatherer and it's left me a tad bitter about my status and station in this one. You know, it is just so damn hard to move up the ladder when you're primary job in life is to follow around cow waiting for them to take a dump.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It's only because in a former life I was a lowly cow-dung gatherer and it's left me a tad bitter about my status and station in this one. You know, it is just so damn hard to move up the ladder when you're primary job in life is to follow around cow waiting for them to take a dump.
I was that cow. Alas, bad karma put me in this low position of bi-failing poster in a backwater discussion forum.
Btw, good to see you again!

Note: Some might be taken aback by those of us who find the caste system repugnant.
This does not mean that we blame Hinduism for it. It looks more like a cultural practice to me.
 
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PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
The caste system, as described by the OP, seems to be a slightly modified version of Marxist (err.... not a historian) Communism. And we all know why Communism falls apart. :D
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
To be honest, I dont have a 'formed' opinion on castes.
But I have have a firm opinion on Hinduism that it is the greatest thing happened to me in this life! And that the early thinkers of this faith can't be stupid or dirty minded!
I accept I am definitely biased on this!
Hence my attempts to find different theories.


Yours is a fair and sincere answer. And it seems genuine and heartfelt. Therefore, I will sheath my pointed tongue at this point and offer my admiration for the qualities of Hinduism that impress me. I am not against Hinduism. And I certainly mean no disrespect to you personally. I just get real protective when it comes to human rights. And any system that forces submission on people and places an arbitrarily calculated 'value' on a living person, forcing them into a status and station based on tradition, religious ideals or other arbitrary measures rather than on personal merit, I will argue against it tooth and claw with no compulsion to be fair to those who would defend it's so-called "Virtues".

I apologize if I offended you or your religion. That was not my intent. I only hoped to offend those people who would attempt to justify a cruel, antiquated way of life.
 

Milind2469

Member
My curiosity to understand the reasons behind this unique social structure is neither a justification of the manner in which it was practised nor it is an attempt to revive it or glorify it.
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
I see many criticisms misdirected by those who think that I am talking of the current caste system. This post was meant to understand the original meaning of the caste system. The caste according to the Gita is not determined by birth. This (caste is from birth and a person is doomed to be of a particular caste no matter what he does from birth) is nowhere said in the Gita. On the contrary, conduct, temperament or vocation determines the caste according to the sages.

Regards
 
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