Mohamed (PBUH) in the bible !!!

Mujahid Mohammed said:

Where does Luke say this in his testimony because Acts according to my bible the author is unknown why is that is my study bible kjv lying to me. So who wrote this account. And if Jesus is all powerful why did he get his power from God if someone gives you your power it is clear your power does not equal the one giving it to you. And how come he could not the fig tree bear fruit God could have made it bear fruit in the coldest of winters and why did he have to eat and sleep. Does God do these things and it is safe to say because Jesus was a man that he had to use the restroom. Does God do these things. How does God sacrifice Himself if these three things are 1 and if God is everlasting and everliving and equal to the son how can it die. And how can he send the Holy spirit when it was already with them. John the Baptist had the holy spirit in him and disciples took it with them in the land. So if they already had it why would it need to be sent. If you already have a package of mail would you resend it through the post office to yourself. I am confused brother please help me because this does not make sense. Forgive me for my ignorance of the scriptures help me to understand for it seems you have a better understanding then me.

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Luke wrote Acts. I think you have to understand, as I had explained before that through Jesus's incarnation, He willingly emptied himself of certain attributes. Remember, he took the form of man to connect with man in a real way, but exhibit many attributes of His power throughout the New Testament. You are right in the fact that He relied on His Father, but that was part of the process of emptying Himself of certain attributes and relying on the Father who he deemed was greater than He in his physical, earthly state. Since He took on the form of man, He assumed all related senses and attributes associated with a human being, including hunger and exhaustion. Jesus cursed the fig tree so that it could not bear fruit, because He was trying to teach His followers a very important lesson about faith. I never said the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being one being. In Genesis, God The Father said "Let us make man in our own image". Us represents plurality, so who was He talking to? They are three spiritual beings with the same attributes and henceforth are unified by these attributes. As I mentioned in my previous posts, Jesus scarificed some of these attributes associated with His deity when He was incarnated into flesh to carry out the purpose of salvation.

Hi Mujahid, I am still trying to work out how you feel about the books of the NT, From what I can make out, it seems that you may feel the writers are not very reliable ? . Can I ask you who wrote the Quran, I have read there are 3 possiblities, 1 The Arabs, 2 Mohammad, 3 Allah.. Now we know God didn't sit and right a book and thow it out the sky, [ I say that in good jester ] . Was the Quran writen by many men or Just one man..You say that the Bible has contradictions, Does the Quran have anything in it that Someone Like me could possibly see what your seeing in the Bible,

Now I don't post what I am about to post to be a smarty pants, I post with a sincere heart and also out of total ignorance to what is writen in the Quran, Could this be the same kind of thing reffered to as you would see the Bible..

Ok the Quran makes the Following statments reguarding the food the unbelievers eat in Hell..

NO food will be there for them but a Bitter Dahri.. S, 88:6 Y.ALi

Nor he hath any food except the Foul Pus from the washing of wounds S 69:36 ALi.

No food except Bitter Dahri
No food except Foul Pus..

Is that the better entertainment or the tree of zaqqum ?
For we have truely made it [ as ] a trial for the wrongdoers.
For it is a tree that springs our of the bottom of hell fire.
The shoots of it's fruit stalks are like the heads of devils
Truely they will eat thereof and fill there bellies therewith
Then on top of that they will be given a mixture made of boiling water
Then shall their return be to the blazing fire . S 37:62-68 Y. ALi cf 56:52.

Would you see these as contradiction ?

1 Eating the tree of Zaqqum seems to contradict " eating only Dahri" ..[ 88:6 ]

2 Eating the tree of zaqqum seems to contradict " eating only foul pus " [ 69:36 ]

3 Eating only Dahri seems to contradict " eating only "Foul pus".

Now I am sure there is a logical explaination for why it says all that, just the same way there is a logical explaination to the Faults one may see in the bible..It can work both ways...We can both agree that no matter what is going to be going on in hell, its a place where niether of us want to be..

We also agree that our main Goal is to be obediant to God and Keep his commandments..We also agree that God will punish sin.

We agree that we will stand before God and be accountable for our actions on the day of Judgement..

We disagree on how that sin is paid, you feel we are punished in this life, So when we stand before God, any Good that we have done will outweigh all the bad and that God will forgive us and welcome us into His kingdom..Would that be a correct statement ?

I believe that, We will stand before God on Judgement day, We will be asked to give an account of our lifes, If we have accepted Jesus as our Lord and saviour, We will be Judged and sentence will be given, It will be then [ Hopefully ] Jesus will say, I died for her sins then God will welcome me into heaven..

Jesus said Not everyone who says to me LORD LORD, Will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, But He who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven will enter.
Many will say to me on that day, LORD LORD did I not Prophecy in your Name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your mane perform many miracles, And then I will declare to Them, " I never Knew you, depart from me you workers of Lawlessness...

Now I know you seem to be a bit unsure Of the NT Scriptures, But Paul did say In 1Corinthians 15: 1- 4

Now I make known to you Brethren, The Godpel which I preached to you, which you also recieved, in which you stand, 2 By which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delieved to you as of first importance, " What I ALSO RECIEVED " That Christ Died for our sins according to the SCRIPTURES..

4 And that He Was Buried, And He was Raised on the third day according to the Scriptures..

Galations 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

4 Who Gave Himself for our Sins, So that He might rescue us from this present evil age, According to the Will of Our God and Father.

5 To whom be the Glory forever Amen..

6. I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ Jesus, for a different Gospel

7 Which is really not another, Only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the Gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, He has to be accursed...

Mujahid, I cannot force you to believe or except everything I have writen, But there is no doubt in my mind that this is the Gospel Of Christ Jesus..

Please, if you will, re read Isa 53, all of it in the context, If you are unconvinced that what has been writen to be about Christ Jesus, I do not know how to help you..I have shared my beliefs with you, I don't have all the answers for you..Im sorry

Hi again I am hoping this might help you see why Christians believe what they do...

here are some prophecy and their fulfilments..

Prophecy

Genisis 3:15 --And I will put emiity between you and the women
And between your seed and your seed.

He shall bruise you on the Head
And you shall bruise Him on the Heel.

Fulfillment

Mathew 4 : 11

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became Hungry 3 And the tempter came and said to Him " If you are the Son of God "Command that these stones become Bread. 4 But he answered Him, It is written That man shall not Live by bread alone, But on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. 5 Then the devil took Him into the Holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple. 6 And said to Him, If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down for it is written, He will command His angels concerning you and on their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said to Him, " On the Other hand, It is written " You shall not put Your Lord your God to the test..8 Again the Devil Took Him to a very High mountain and showed Him all the Kingdoms of the World and their Glory 9 And He said to Him " All these things I will Give you, if you fall down and worship me. 10 then Jesus said, Go Away Satan For it is written " You shall serve the Lord your God and serve only Him..11 Then the devil Left Him, and behold the Angesl came and began to minister to Him...

Genisis 3: 15 Explaination..Satan is our enemy, He will do anything he can to get us to follow his evil deadly path, the phrase " you will Strike his heel referes to satans repeated attempts to defeat Christ during his life on earth, The phrase " He will strike you head" foreshadows Satans defeat when Christ rose from the dead, A strike on the heel is not deadly but a blow to the head is, Already God was revealing His plan to defeat Satan, and offer salvation to the World through His Son Jesus Christ..

For Futher fulfillment on Genisis 3:15 see, John 15:18, 19. Galations 4:4, Col,2:15..

I have more but I need to go out now...

Ok I am back again,

Prophecy Genisis 12:3

And I will bless those who bless you
And the one who curses you I will curse
And in you All the families of the earth
will be blessed.
Fulfillment Acts 2:1-11

When the day of penticost Had come, They were all together in One place
And suddenly there came from Heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind
and it filled the whole house where they were sitting,
And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them, and they were All filled with the Holy Spirit.
and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Now There were Jews, living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
And when this sound occured, the crowd came together and were bewildered because EACH ONE OF THEM WAS HEARING THEM SPEAK IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE..
They were amazed and astonished saying, " Why are not all these who are speaking Galileans.
And how is it that we hear them in our own language to which we were born
Parithians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, pontus and Asia..
Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya, around Cyrene and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, certain Arabs--We hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God..

If you Like, I can write more of them later..Or I can give you the refferences and you can Check them out for yourself..

glasgowchick said:

Hi Mujahid, I am still trying to work out how you feel about the books of the NT, From what I can make out, it seems that you may feel the writers are not very reliable ? . Can I ask you who wrote the Quran, I have read there are 3 possiblities, 1 The Arabs, 2 Mohammad, 3 Allah.. Now we know God didn't sit and right a book and thow it out the sky, [ I say that in good jester ] . Was the Quran writen by many men or Just one man..You say that the Bible has contradictions, Does the Quran have anything in it that Someone Like me could possibly see what your seeing in the Bible,

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To answer your question God wrote the Qur'an. The Angel Gabriel gave the words to Muhammed. He himself could not read or write as stated in a passage in Isa. in the bible. His wife and some of his companions jotted down every word. word for word and if you read the verses it is impossible for an uneducated man to speak in this manner. I will elaborate on that later on in different post.

NO food will be there for them but a Bitter Dahri.. S, 88:6 Y.ALi

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This is part of the translation. Dahri is an arabic word meaning poisonous thorny plany and I am using my book of translation as reference. It would be difficult to understand if one does not know arabic.

Nor he hath any food except the Foul Pus from the washing of wounds S 69:36 ALi.

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If you read in the above verse it is talking about a specific punishment on a specific day the day of Judgement. That is the punishment for certain sins one commits ie. drinking alcohol. These are two seperate instances one is a punishment on the Day of Judgement because there are many punishments one can endure on that Particular Day. And the Tree of Zaqqum is in Hell Fire where there are no days because there depending on the individual is eternity. I hope this clears up the confusion when it is talking about the pus and the tree of zaqqum.

Jesus said Not everyone who says to me LORD LORD, Will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, But He who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven will enter.
Many will say to me on that day, LORD LORD did I not Prophecy in your Name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your mane perform many miracles, And then I will declare to Them, " I never Knew you, depart from me you workers of Lawlessness...

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I agree and this is what Muslims says he who does the WILL OF MY FATHER ie. submit to his will or Islam become muslim because that is what doing the will of the father is submitting to God. And many will do things Christians claim to do in the name of Jesus and he will say I do not know you. Depart from me you workers of Lawlessness. So Jesus is telling you many people are going to say Jesus we did all these things in your name and he will say get away from me. This is what Allah says will happen on the Day of Judgement in the Qur'an.

Now I know you seem to be a bit unsure Of the NT Scriptures, But Paul did say In 1Corinthians 15: 1- 4

Now I make known to you Brethren, The Godpel which I preached to you, which you also recieved, in which you stand, 2 By which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delieved to you as of first importance, " What I ALSO RECIEVED " That Christ Died for our sins according to the SCRIPTURES..

4 And that He Was Buried, And He was Raised on the third day according to the Scriptures..

Galations 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

4 Who Gave Himself for our Sins, So that He might rescue us from this present evil age, According to the Will of Our God and Father.

5 To whom be the Glory forever Amen..

6. I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ Jesus, for a different Gospel

7 Which is really not another, Only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the Gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, He has to be accursed...

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None of these words are Jesus said in John 14:23 If a man love me, he will keep MY WORDS, and my Father will love him and we will come unto him and make our abode with him.

Mujahid, I cannot force you to believe or except everything I have writen, But there is no doubt in my mind that this is the Gospel Of Christ Jesus..

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Then why is there only 7 books in the whole bible with red letters if it were Jesus book it would be more than 1/2 his words if you read the Gospel of Barnabus it is all parables and Jesus talking with some stories detailing things he did.

Please, if you will, re read Isa 53, all of it in the context, If you are unconvinced that what has been writen to be about Christ Jesus, I do not know how to help you..I have shared my beliefs with you, I don't have all the answers for you..Im sorry

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If you know the story of what was said to Mohammed in the cave when he first received the revelation how the Angel came to him and said read and he said I cannot read the angel said read and again he said I cannot read and the Angel picked him up and said read in the name of thy Lord who created man from a single clot of blood and taught man the use of the pen and what he knew not. Surah 96 in Quran. Now read Isa 29:11-18 and tell me if this is not Muhammad. As I said earlier I do not take away from what the bible says in your statements but it also says other things that contradict itself. Please go online order the book What Did Jesus Really Say by Mishall ibn Abdullah. My friend has not given me my copy back but it is an excellent source from recognised scholars of religion many former christians who are now Muslim. I will go to another post soon if not today soon to put some of the things about Muhammed (saw) in the bible. I believe there already is a post in the forum. There are many things and many contradictions in the bible. And the Christian scholars say they do not know who wrote it or authored it and many recognised Christian scholars have stated in many books the inconsistencies in the bible. And if the experts can not figure it out How am I with my limited understanding going to figure it out. Just let me know what you think if there are contradictions Did God inspire these mistakes which create confusion amongst Biblical Scholars. I take my information from scholars and the Christians I know and noone has any answers this is why I am so confused. But hopefully we can figure it our together with the will of Allah or Eli.

Salam my dear respected sister in pursuit of knowledge.

glasgowchick said:

Hi again I am hoping this might help you see why Christians believe what they do...

here are some prophecy and their fulfilments..

Prophecy

Genisis 3:15 --And I will put emiity between you and the women
And between your seed and your seed.

He shall bruise you on the Head
And you shall bruise Him on the Heel.

Fulfillment

Mathew 4 : 11

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became Hungry 3 And the tempter came and said to Him " If you are the Son of God "Command that these stones become Bread. 4 But he answered Him, It is written That man shall not Live by bread alone, But on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. 5 Then the devil took Him into the Holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple. 6 And said to Him, If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down for it is written, He will command His angels concerning you and on their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said to Him, " On the Other hand, It is written " You shall not put Your Lord your God to the test..8 Again the Devil Took Him to a very High mountain and showed Him all the Kingdoms of the World and their Glory 9 And He said to Him " All these things I will Give you, if you fall down and worship me. 10 then Jesus said, Go Away Satan For it is written " You shall serve the Lord your God and serve only Him..11 Then the devil Left Him, and behold the Angesl came and began to minister to Him...

Genisis 3: 15 Explaination..Satan is our enemy, He will do anything he can to get us to follow his evil deadly path, the phrase " you will Strike his heel referes to satans repeated attempts to defeat Christ during his life on earth, The phrase " He will strike you head" foreshadows Satans defeat when Christ rose from the dead, A strike on the heel is not deadly but a blow to the head is, Already God was revealing His plan to defeat Satan, and offer salvation to the World through His Son Jesus Christ..

For Futher fulfillment on Genisis 3:15 see, John 15:18, 19. Galations 4:4, Col,2:15..

I have more but I need to go out now...

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Some of My Christian bretheren tell me these verses mean Jesus is God are they lying to me. My mom believes this is she correct. And if he is not God why do they believe this. This is where I get confused because if he is God how does the devil tempt God. Noone can do anything to God. We believe his majesty and power far exceed any of his creation to a degree not measured.

glasgowchick said:

Ok I am back again,

Prophecy Genisis 12:3

And I will bless those who bless you
And the one who curses you I will curse
And in you All the families of the earth
will be blessed.
Fulfillment Acts 2:1-11

When the day of penticost Had come, They were all together in One place
And suddenly there came from Heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind
and it filled the whole house where they were sitting,
And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them, and they were All filled with the Holy Spirit.

Click to expand...

How was the Holy Spirit present when Jesus had to send it after he left and this is clearly before he came.

and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Now There were Jews, living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
And when this sound occured, the crowd came together and were bewildered because EACH ONE OF THEM WAS HEARING THEM SPEAK IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE..
They were amazed and astonished saying, " Why are not all these who are speaking Galileans.
And how is it that we hear them in our own language to which we were born
Parithians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, pontus and Asia..
Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya, around Cyrene and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, certain Arabs--We hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God..

If you Like, I can write more of them later..Or I can give you the refferences and you can Check them out for yourself..

Click to expand...

When Christians speak in tongues why is it some language not known to any land or culture and why do they not know what it means or anyone around them for that matter. Why did the Holy Spirit not make it clear. Also from talking to some occultist the same thing happens to them and demon worship how are we know which is which.

Mujahid Mohammed said:

How was the Holy Spirit present when Jesus had to send it after he left and this is clearly before he came.


When Christians speak in tongues why is it some language not known to any land or culture and why do they not know what it means or anyone around them for that matter. Why did the Holy Spirit not make it clear. Also from talking to some occultist the same thing happens to them and demon worship how are we know which is which.

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The Holy Spirit came after Jesus left, He came on the First day of Penticost and rested apon those [ 120 ] that was in the upper room, from then on Peter took the Gospel first to the Jews those who CRUCIFIED HIM. When they Heard this, they were pierced to the heart and asked what shall they do to be saved, Peter told them to Repent and be Baptized..That was the begining of the Church..

The Christians in these days that speak in tongues, I don't even know what they are saying, to me they are Just babbling, However when those who spoke in tongues back then, they were not babbling, they Spoke clearly in ALL those peoples own native tongue, in their own Language...

Mujahid Mohammed said:

Some of My Christian bretheren tell me these verses mean Jesus is God are they lying to me. My mom believes this is she correct. And if he is not God why do they believe this. This is where I get confused because if he is God how does the devil tempt God. Noone can do anything to God. We believe his majesty and power far exceed any of his creation to a degree not measured.

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I am sorry you are confused about Jesus being God..You say your mom believes this, Has your mom not tried to explain this to you, If she has and you still don't understand, will another Christian be able to do any better in explaining..There is Only One God..It was the Word that became Flesh.[ Jesus ] The Word [ Jesus] was with God in the begining ] As the Holy Spirit was in the begining also, they All took part in creation..Everything God is, was manifested to us in Jesus Christ [ The Word ]..The Word was God manifested in the flesh...

"The Christians in these days that speak in tongues, I don't even know what they are saying, to me they are Just babbling, However when those who spoke in tongues back then, they were not babbling, they Spoke clearly in ALL those peoples own native tongue, in their own Language.."

Is there any outside confirmation for this?

"There is Only One God..It was the Word that became Flesh.[ Jesus ] The Word [ Jesus] was with God in the begining ] As the Holy Spirit was in the begining also, they All took part in creation..Everything God is, was manifested to us in Jesus Christ [ The Word ]..The Word was God manifested in the flesh..."

I don't think anyone who is not Christian is going to treat this as a sound argument.

is there any outside confirmation for this

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I don't know if there is, I will checjk it out if you like and get back to you.

I don't think anyone who is not Christian is going to trear this as a sound argument.

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I agree with you..

Fatmop said:

"The Christians in these days that speak in tongues, I don't even know what they are saying, to me they are Just babbling, However when those who spoke in tongues back then, they were not babbling, they Spoke clearly in ALL those peoples own native tongue, in their own Language.."

Is there any outside confirmation for this?

"There is Only One God..It was the Word that became Flesh.[ Jesus ] The Word [ Jesus] was with God in the begining ] As the Holy Spirit was in the begining also, they All took part in creation..Everything God is, was manifested to us in Jesus Christ [ The Word ]..The Word was God manifested in the flesh..."

I don't think anyone who is not Christian is going to treat this as a sound argument.

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Hi Mujahid, So Mohammad recieved a revelation from God from an angel in-side a cave..was he the only one there ? As Christians we believe that the Bible is from God given to His Word [ Jesus ]..Jesus had many eye witnesess, He had Apostles who spent 31/2 years with Him, they walked with him and Talked with Him, they ate with Him, Witnessed, His death, burial and resurection. Yet apparently Mohammad was in this Cave by himself ?..Isa 29 in the context, is a message to Jerusalem..

glasgowchick said:

The Holy Spirit came after Jesus left, He came on the First day of Penticost and rested apon those [ 120 ] that was in the upper room, from then on Peter took the Gospel first to the Jews those who CRUCIFIED HIM. When they Heard this, they were pierced to the heart and asked what shall they do to be saved, Peter told them to Repent and be Baptized..That was the begining of the Church..

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So how did John the baptist have the Holy Spirit and Elizabeth and Zachariah. They all had it and they came before Jesus timewise so it according to what the bible says came before Jesus and was not sent by him. That is as if I have a package sent to my house via mail. Would I resend it to me if it was already there.

glasgowchick said:

I am sorry you are confused about Jesus being God..You say your mom believes this, Has your mom not tried to explain this to you, If she has and you still don't understand, will another Christian be able to do any better in explaining..There is Only One God..It was the Word that became Flesh.[ Jesus ] The Word [ Jesus] was with God in the begining ] As the Holy Spirit was in the begining also, they All took part in creation..Everything God is, was manifested to us in Jesus Christ [ The Word ]..The Word was God manifested in the flesh...

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Now I do not believe he is God this is what my Christian bretheren tell me. I believe his is One. The problem is every person in every church has a verse supporting some dogma of theres I just want to know who is correct and what is the basis on how you know which Christian group is correct. Because the bible says something different. But all these conflicting dogmas can not be correct even though they all have evidence in the scriptures supporting them. Some one is lying and sense everyone is giving me evidence from the scriptures I have to question it because if the Christian cannot agree on dogma and they all get it from the bible how do I know who is telling the truth and who is lying. That is where I need help.

Just as there are many different sects of Christianity there are many different sects of Islam. How do you explain that considering the Qu'ran is the same and always has been in Arabic>?

Hi Mujahid, I agree totally with you, There is so much confusion in Christianity and I think that is why for Sola Scripture only Christians Like myself agree to go soley with What God commands in The Bible, I am sure you have seen the threds where some people totally disagrees with Sola Scripure..There may very well be other things that have been writen but if its not in the Bible then from what I have seen, everything outside of it contradicts what is inside of it..Again that is my personal opinion..I often wondered like yourself, how so many Christians can use the same Bible and get a totally different interpretation of it..That of course is ok, we all see things differently, I think the problem arises when we change The commands of God, Basically the do's and the don'ts..Jesus called it, Traditions of men..So how do we know what is truth, we got to get back to listening to what God says and Do things how he wants things done..I will give you two examples of how that happens.

Exodus 20:4 you shall not make for yourself an Idol, or any likeness of what is in the heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the water under the earth..

RCC Believe that it is ok to have all the Statues inside their Church..then excuse them away..So in my opinion their church is full of Idols..

I then need to ask myself what does God say about it, I look to the Scriptures and read Exodus 20:4 and see God says "Don't do it."

So to me we have to do what God commands..

nutshell said:

Just as there are many different sects of Christianity there are many different sects of Islam. How do you explain that considering the Qu'ran is the same and always has been in Arabic>?

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The difference between sects is not on differences of understanding Qur'an fro the most part people sometimes try to interpret something that is clear. Some groups say Jesus did die on the cross according to Islamic dogma but the Qur'an clearly states he did not. I do not understand it but this sometimes occurs making trying to create belief according to how they feel about an issue. It is also that some groups have added to certain practices that our Prophet did and he never did any of the additions. We are commanded to only do what the Prophet did. If the Prophet prayed 5 times a day we pray 5 times a day. If he never performed certain rituals which some groups do today then we cannot perform those rituals it is very simple. We are told to listen to Allah and his Prophet that is it. Some groups follow the teaching of this person and that person and this is not permissable. That is why in the verse says we the muslims will break into different sects but only the one's who hear Allah's Word and follow the teachings of his prophet are correct. That is how you know there is an excellent lecture by Sheihk Waleed Basyouni on this particular subject he gives the whole history as to how these groups developed.

glasgowchick said:

Hi Mujahid, I agree totally with you, There is so much confusion in Christianity and I think that is why for Sola Scripture only Christians Like myself agree to go soley with What God commands in The Bible, I am sure you have seen the threds where some people totally disagrees with Sola Scripure..There may very well be other things that have been writen but if its not in the Bible then from what I have seen, everything outside of it contradicts what is inside of it..Again that is my personal opinion..I often wondered like yourself, how so many Christians can use the same Bible and get a totally different interpretation of it..That of course is ok, we all see things differently, I think the problem arises when we change The commands of God, Basically the do's and the don'ts..Jesus called it, Traditions of men..So how do we know what is truth, we got to get back to listening to what God says and Do things how he wants things done..I will give you two examples of how that happens.

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So if god is infallible all powerful would you agree that because there are contradictions and manly interpretations included and altering of the book from one bible to the next is it not save to say man has corrupted God's book. And if man has corrupted it how can you seperate God's word from man's mistake. Most of the church doctrines are not God's word it is the testimony of the pharisees and scribes (gentile and jewish religious figure heads) Jesus himself if we take his testimony as the basis on what is truth and not of those who Jesus says are vipers, snakes, dogs, sinful there would be no difference in belief between you and eye. But when the words of Paul and all the other Gentiles in the bible are taken in that is what the church as we know it is based off of. Jesus never said any of these things he never said he was going to die, be crucified and resurrected. These are teachings of the Gentiles who if you do history on the Sun God Mithras you will find amazing similarities between Jesus and many other Sun's of God who came way before Jesus in the time line. I have mentioned many of these and there story in another post I will write the information again if you like to illustrate that this is something that must be looked at. the fact that the Romans are sun worshippers and always have been. There pagan God's story and many others is almost identical to the story they tell of Jesus in the New Testament. You must remember Paul and his students wrote the NT. They incorporated alot of their pagan philosophies into the religion to convert the Gentiles. That is why he and the disciples fo Jesus never got along because they were preaching the religion that Jesus taught which is belief in one God and Jesus as a messenger. All the testimonies of the people talking are Romans and you know they believe in Vulcan and other Gods who come down and have sex with women and have children. Alot of the Pagan festival are now are Christian holidays. It is a documented fact that the bible has many times and has branched out into many different version. The bibles we have today are not the same as the one they had in the times of its first writing and it is definetly been changed by the hands of men. The KJV which christian argue is the most authentic bible because it is used by most churches is not in its original state. It had 80 books not taken from any scriptural Hebrew but only from the Greek and Latin which is the language of the Romans and not Jesus. Where is his actual testimony written in his original language, the answer is in what happens before and after the council of Nicea in 325 a.d. Man has corrupted the words of God. Mohammed (pbuh) told a group of Christians why do you worship your priests and not Allah. They said we do not worship our priests. He said didn't your priests make the unlawful lawful, and the lawful unlawful. And if you follow what they say you worship them. Paul contradicts Jesus saying all things are lawful. Circumsicion is unesscessary and he does not need the testimony of men, he only needs his visions. I am sorry I have went off on a tangent. I am just trying to explain how looking through my eyes it looks very strange. read Rev 22:18-19 as you can see they have already done that.

Exodus 20:4 you shall not make for yourself an Idol, or any likeness of what is in the heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the water under the earth..

RCC Believe that it is ok to have all the Statues inside their Church..then excuse them away..So in my opinion their church is full of Idols..

I then need to ask myself what does God say about it, I look to the Scriptures and read Exodus 20:4 and see God says "Don't do it."

So to me we have to do what God commands..

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And God says he is not the author of confusion. When we see any pictures of anything inside a house of worship we consider it an idol. Idols if I am not mistaken is anything you carve a picture onto. Whether you worship it in your mind or physically it still in many respects represents a type of idol worship. Muslim have no pictures in there head of what God looks like but Christians see Jesus on the cross as God or the Son of God dying for them, When if the Father is eternal the son should be also. A study into astrotheology and the Gnostic religions sheds much more light on all these subjects we will discuss it insha Allah. Keep searching and ask yourself is it right for Jesus to condemn people who are the one's responsible for giving you the bible we use today. And what is so wrong with the original bible that it needed to be altered. Can Gods word be altered by anyone other than God.

Hi Mujahid, I agree with what you say about carved Idols and Holy pictures crosses etc, and Idol is also anything we worship more than God, wether it be a new car or money, they can become our Gods, and I agree our thoughts can become adultrous too if our heart is wrong and Not focused on God..

The Church I attend has no images either, We worship in a Hall and believe that the Church is made up with Baptized believers [ Spiritual Church ]..It is not run with priests or popes, It is run in accordance to the NT Church..Jesus is the Head of His Church..

As for the Bible, I believe that the 66 books writen by 36 men within a period of 1500 years [ 1400 B.C to 100A.D ] From different periods. from different countries, men, many of whom never knew eachother, where guided by God to tell His Truth. All the books produce a coherrent revelation of Gods plan as the binding thred thoughout all books..

Many archaeological finds have been made thoughout the years, yet none has contradicted Bible facts.

There is an abundance of prophecies concerning Christ in the old Testament, More than 50 prophecies telling minutest details of His coming birth, death and other events in His life.

More than 75 prophecies To His Character and postion, moreover, there are other Christ related prophecies concerning the Holy Spirit and the Kingdom [ church ] .

Prophecies can be examined in relation to their scope, time and nature. In the Old Testament about 15 of the writers prophesy of Jesus. They include Moses, Isaiah, Jeramiah, Samuel, David, Micah, Amos, Zechariah. The prophecies begin in Genisis 3:15 and end in Micah 3:4.

Moses wrote 1500 years before Christ, David 1000 years B.C, Isaiah 800 B.C, and Malachi 400.B.C.

The Prophecies where given as facts to believed and the onus of disapproval must lie with the doubter. Prophecies are generally nor ambigous nor vague statements to be interpreted in various ways by different generations of scolars.

Examples- The following incidents are recognised happenings in thelife of Christ and all are taken from prophecies made Long before His Coming.

He was to be announced by a divinely appointed messenger, this mesenger was to begin preaching in the wilderness, He was to be consecrated by the Holy Spirit, born in Bethlehem, of the Line of David, began His minestry in Galilee, confirm His message by miracles, A man of sorrows, He would enter Jerusalem in Triumph, be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, His demeanour during His trial was foretold, He suffered abuse, died under Judicial sentance by crucifixion, was scorged, His Garments were parted By His crucifiers and lots cast for his robe, He was numbered with the transgressors and perished amidst evil mockings, He would be pierced but not one of His bones would be broken, He would make His grave with the rich..

Prophecy of Christ's being crucified [ pierced hands in feet ] was made some 1000 years before Christ's time and pre-dated Capital punishment by crucifixion.

See Psalms 22:16 & Zech 12:10..

But Like I have said, the onus of disapproval must lie with the doubter..

Under the Old Law Circumcision was a requirement for the Jews...But we are under a new Covenant Now, where circumcision is not a requirement..We enter into the new covenant when we except Jesus as Lord and Savior..

I am going to try and copy something on here which might help..I have never posted and pasted on here before so if something shows up on here out of sorts you will know why...

Jesus' Salvation
For Jews & Gentiles

Old Testament Prophecies

Jesus Came for the Gentiles
God Sent Apostles to the Gentiles
The Gentiles Will Hope in Jesus
The Church Recognized Salvation for Gentiles Also
Jesus' Blood Brought Salvation to the Gentiles
Jesus in the Gentiles Their Hope of Glory

Old Testament
Prophecies

Amos 9:11-12 "‘After these things I will return, and I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, and I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, in order that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’ says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old

Psalm 19:4 "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."

Isaiah 60:3 "And nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising."

Isaiah 65:1 "I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, ‘Here am I, here am I,’ a nation which did not call on My name."

Jeremiah 4:2 "And you will swear, 'As Yehovah lives,' in truth, in justice, and in righteousness; then the nations will bless themselves in Him, and in Him they will glory."

Jesus Came For
The Gentiles

Matthew 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased;; I will put My Spirit upon Him, and He shall proclaim justice to the gentiles.

Acts 10:15 "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy."

Acts 10:43-44 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

Romans 3:29-30 "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Romans 9:24-25 "Even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As he says also in Hosea, "I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’ and her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’"

Ephesians 3:6 "To be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel."

1 Timothy 2:7 "And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth."

God Sent Apostles
To The Gentiles

Matthew 10:18 and you shall even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel."

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel."

Acts 13:47 "For thus the Lord has commanded us, ‘I have placed you as a light for the Gentiles, that you should bring salvation to the end of the earth.’"

Acts 14:27 And when they had arrived and gathered the church together, they began to report all things that God had done with them and how He had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles.

Acts 15:7-9 "Peter stood up and said to them, ‘Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the Gospel and believe. And God, who knows-the-heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.’"
Romans 1:5 "Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name’s sake"

Romans 11:13 "But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry."

Romans 15:12 "And again Isaiah says, ‘There shall come the root of Jesse, and He who arises to rule over the Gentiles, In Him shall the Gentiles hope.’" (Isaiah 11:10)

Romans 15:15-16 "But I have written very boldly to you on some points, so as to remind you again, because of the grace that was given me from God, to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God."


I hope this helps..or works out for that matter