deep thinking --> "Jesus"

Hi everybody, This is my first post and i hope that you will not hesitate to discuss with me what is your thoughts and opnions about the link i will just post in here in order to give a true and plain focus in this theory.

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/jesus_did_not_die_01.php

i will be so happy to recieve any question from you regarding to what you already read from this e-book whether you agree or disagree with the author.

btw, the same website contains many other issues to read and many video clips to download or even just watch it online.

Welcome!!

flexible,

It is the Devil that does not want the truth about God and His provisions for the future to reach man. Therefore the Devil uses many “cunning schemes” (Ephesians 6:11) in his efforts to accomplish that. That puts the burden on us to determine what is or is not a “wile” of Satan; and Satan, as one might expect, makes it as hard as possible for us to do so successfully.

According to the Quran the earlier holy writings, including the Bible, are part of the “unchangeable” or “unalterable” guidance that God has provided.

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YUSUFALI: Then if they reject thee, so were rejected messengers before thee, who came with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment.
PICKTHAL: And if they deny thee, even so did they deny messengers who were before thee, who came with miracles and with the Psalms and with the Scripture giving light.
SHAKIR: But if they reject you, so indeed were rejected before you messengers who came with clear arguments and scriptures and the illuminating book.

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YUSUFALI: And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their messengers with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment.
PICKTHAL: And if they deny thee, those before them also denied. Their messengers came unto them with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), and with the Psalms and the Scripture giving light.
SHAKIR: And if they call you a liar, so did those before them indeed call (their messengers) liars; their messengers had come to them with clear arguments, and with scriptures, and with the illuminating book.

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YUSUFALI: It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
PICKTHAL: Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
SHAKIR: Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

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YUSUFALI: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
PICKTHAL: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).

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YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

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YUSUFALI: Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers.
PICKTHAL: Messengers indeed have been denied before thee, and they were patient under the denial and the persecution till Our succour reached them. There is none to alter the decisions of Allah. Already there hath reached thee (somewhat) of the tidings of the messengers (We sent before).
SHAKIR: And certainly messengers before you were rejected, but they were patient on being rejected and persecuted until Our help came to them; and there is none to change the words of Allah, and certainly there has come to you some information about the messengers.

God foretold that the Messiah would live and also die (the only way to enter Sheol, Hades or the grave: Psalm 16:10, “For you will not leave my soul in She´ol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.”). Not only is it foretold that the Messiah would die but also why he would die: Isaiah 53:12, “For that reason I shall deal him a portion among the many, and it will be with the mighty ones that he will apportion the spoil, due to the fact that he poured out his soul to the very death, and it was with the transgressors that he was counted in; and he himself carried the very sin of many people, and for the transgressors he proceeded to interpose.”

So let me ask you, “Why would God contradict himself?”


Quotations of the Quran are taken from this site: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

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Nice site - baseless fable.

So, I read:

Before examining the proofs that Jesus (pbuh) is not dead and will return to Earth, we will clarify several important points.​

But I can't seem to find "the proofs". Perhaps you could suggest them here.

flexible said:

Hi everybody, This is my first post and i hope that you will not hesitate to discuss with me what is your thoughts and opnions about the link i will just post in here in order to give a true and plain focus in this theory.

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/jesus_did_not_die_01.php

i will be so happy to recieve any question from you regarding to what you already read from this e-book whether you agree or disagree with the author.

btw, the same website contains many other issues to read and many video clips to download or even just watch it online.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum;

perhaps you would like to introduce yourself to the members by posting on:-
Are you new to ReligiousForums.com? ;

Hope you have a good time here, and I look forward to seeing your posts.

The premise behind the book seems to discount the writings of Jesus's contemporaries such as Josephus. All of which write that he was crucified.

Deut. 32.8 said:

So, I read: <B>

Before examining the proofs that Jesus (pbuh) is not dead and will return to Earth, we will clarify several important points.​

</B>But I can't seem to find "the proofs". Perhaps you could suggest them here.

Click to expand...

The proof is the New Testament scriptures, but you already know this, don't you Deut?

blueman said:

The proof is the New Testament scriptures, but you already know this, don't you Deut?

Click to expand...

Sorry, they don't count a proof, just like the adventures of Worzel Gummidge aren't proof of talking scarecrows. You are entitled to believe in the texts of the NT, but they aren't technically proof of anything.

Searcher of Light said:

The premise behind the book seems to discount the writings of Jesus's contemporaries such as Josephus. All of which write that he was crucified.

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Nothing iritates me quite so much as senseless ignorance promoted as fact. Josephus, born in 37 CE, was not a contemporary, and the reference to Jesus in Testimonium Flavianum is widely considered to be, at the very least, a partial forgery. You are no more accurate with regard to the other "contemporaries" you imply.

blueman said:

The proof is the New Testament scriptures, but you already know this, don't you Deut?

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I know that you believe that. Nevertheless, the NT is proof of very little.

Halcyon said:

Sorry, they don't count a proof, just like the adventures of Worzel Gummidge aren't proof of talking scarecrows. You are entitled to believe in the texts of the NT, but they aren't technically proof of anything.

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that is indeed true Halcyon, good point

so we still need the proof taht jesus is not dead, and he will return to earth at a later date of convenience

ok, so if for arguments sake we pass over on the bible as a source of valid information

what have we got left

faith - and thats what it ultimatley comes down to

if you do not believe in jesus and his sacrifice, then his teachings will mean nothing significant to you (although you may agree with parts of it)

but if you do believe in them, your life can be drastically changed! its a question of faith, not validity of scripture

but thats not to say that faith in christ is the only valid position of faith - its just that this is the one i have chosen

C_P