My own personal reflection

I put this in the debate section so we can debate about my personal reflection.

Before starting this forum I was an athiest no doubt. I just couldn't even fathom the answers to alot of my questions about GOD and Religions. In and out of my head everyday all day, Is there a God.

While reading alot of posts I have come to some personal conclusions at this point in my life. Especially after reading the "Something from Nothing" thread. I just can't convince myself, yes I am a man of science and logical reasoning to the core, but I can't seem to figure out how in the world this (the place in time we are now) came to existance.

One side of me wants to say everything was just here Boom Bam and Splat end of story.

But the other side of me says, Rex, You came from somewhere so why can't anything else come from something. And yes I am a big believer in the first cause theory that everything has to have a creator yet I am leading myself to believe there is only 1 creator. It is mind blowing, I know.

I'm not sure what the reason of this post is but it might help me when I look back and see where I was at this point in time.

Here is my main concern. Being a logical person this is how I deduce it.

(>)=created


Something* > Nothing
Something > Something
Something > Everthing

*But this something came from Nothing (Which I indicated early is hard for me to believe)

Ugh I want to scream.

Thanks Rex for posting such a personal message...... keep on searching!

Scott

Well, here's my idea. Let's see what you think of it.

*But this something came from Nothing

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Basically...oh great--writers block already and I haven't even started! This is going to be tricky to explain I think, lol!

You say that something had to have come from nothing, but in truth, that is an assumption. Basically, there is no evidence or proof that 'nothing' ever 'existed'...does that make sense? Likewise of course, there is no direct evidence or proof that 'something' always 'existed', but it is possible, and without belief in god, that's the idea that makes the most sense.

As far as 'something' always existing goes...before the universe was instigated, time did not exist. Technically, for something to exist, time is necessary. Without time, 'something' cannot exist, but likewise, 'nothing' cannot exist either...wow I'm really butchering this. This concept was touched upon in the 'something vs. nothing' thread. I'll look for the exact post that I'm thinking of and cite it here.

Also pertaining to the concept of something always existing--Christians believe that god always existed, so why is it difficult to accept the idea that certain particles have always existed?

I hope this is more interesting and informative for you than it is confusing!

Cerid,

That is exactly my point.. If particles always existed then it is fair to say god could have always existed. But the real concern is where in the world did they come from .. hehe.

And being a person who likes the notion of coming from somewhere I would have rather came from a higher power then just a darn particle.

I dunno I dunno. Just sharing my confusion with everyone.. hehe

Oh and the part about "being a person who likes the notion of" why in the world don't most religion believers just say that. b/c it ends the debate.. lol

It is true that if particles have always existed, then god could have always existed, but the difference is that we have evidence of the particles (being that particles exist today, and we are able to study their behavior), whereas we have no evidence of god. As far as 'where did the particles come from?'...If they always existed, they wouldn't have had to come from anywhere. It's not a particularly fathomable concept...fits in with the 'infinite universe' idea.

I don't think there is anything illogical at all about beleiving that there must be "something" that created our universe. The question is, are we being honest with ourselves if we automatically call that "something" God?

Imagine for a moment, that you are an ancient man with little knowledge of the natural world. How do you explain lightning? The fact is, you can't...but you know something must cause lightning. The problem is, instead of just admitting this, people like to use their imaginations to fill in the gaps of knowledge.
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Is the "something" that causes lightning a sentient spirit that lives on Mount Olympus named Zeus? No...we now know that the "something" that causes lightning involves positive and negative charges in the atmosphere and on the ground.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that "something" created the universe...however, to say that that "something" is a sentient being who also has infinite power, humanlike emotions, consciousness, and intelligence....that is pure speculation. Not only is it pure speculation, but it is a bit arrogant on the part of we humans to automatically assign human characteristics to everything in the universe...let's face it, the universe is not a human.

The joy in life is the journey. Happy Trails to you!!!! I think the eastern religions are on the right track when they talk about clearing the mind. I think intellectualizing keeps us from the answers we need. When life is inevitable, relax and enjoy it! I have heard it said that God's voice (or Universal Mind or whatever you want to call it) is a quiet whisper. Quieting the mind helps us hear. When you least expect it it will all click into place.

I hope you find your rest. For me, the greatest key to successful living revolves around a person's ability to rest: to relax, to feel composed and assured. Hebrews 4:9 states there remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. God said, there is "the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest." However, people by their own volition determin not to walk according to God's Word and therefore, they are denied the promised rest. Jesus said, "Come unto me, all ye that labor, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." When Christ finished his work, he sat down on the right hand of God because all had been completed for man - for those who choose to believe. Isn't the point of searching for the truth, is to find out the secret of living serenely, spiritually? To no longer be disturbed by the roar of what people say? The doubts that other people have about God don't rattle us? Most people go through life being conditioned by their circumstances-by people, places and things. One day a person may feel as lighthearted as can be and the next day they are moody and melancoly. Isn't the perfect condition is to have an even, steady assurance and peacefulness? Isn't the point of life is to not speak in respect of want but to learn that in whatever state we are in, we are self-sufficient and self-adequate? That is why circumstances do not condition us. This ability comes from an infusion; it is a spiritual intravenous feeling. By conditioning our minds to God's Word and walking in its truth, is to enter into great rest. The rest is a result of believing the integrity of God's wonderful, matchless Word. Good luck Rex on your search.

Ceridwen018 said:

It is true that if particles have always existed, then god could have always existed, but the difference is that we have evidence of the particles (being that particles exist today, and we are able to study their behavior), whereas we have no evidence of god. As far as 'where did the particles come from?'...If they always existed, they wouldn't have had to come from anywhere. It's not a particularly fathomable concept...fits in with the 'infinite universe' idea.

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But I'm not saying those particles are not the higher being. We know nothing of them except they are there.

Oh, ok I see. That's one way of looking at it, certainly.

Hmm...I don't like the idea of the universe/particles having always existed (I dislike the idea with God as well, but I suppose I can forgive it more in supernatural beings). A universe without a beginning is a universe without an answer, if that makes sense. Eh, my little human brain is right boggled, no matter what. I kinda like the Terry Pratchett explaination, though: "In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."

And is the universe infinite? As I recall, there seems to be evidence it's not...

After reading more into "something came from nothing" thread I have questions about these "particles" like are they everywhere? invisible? And what is their habitat? I mean do they inhabiteth eternity? The Bible teaches that God is so incredibly big, invisible. I Kings 8:27: But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee.... It's as if God is so large the entire universe is expanding to contain Him.

I have to agree with Mr_Spinkes on this one. He pretty much said everything I wanted to say. One more thing, though; as far as I can tell, you do not like the idea that "something came from nothing" because, although some us can THINK about the idea of nothing, none of us have been able to perceive it; in our human perception, EVERYTHING has a cause, which has a cause, which has a cause... and so on and so forth forever. What I don't understand is why, being uncomfortable with the notion that the universe came from nothing, you are able to be attracted to the idea of a God (which, as you said yourself, CAME FROM NOTHING). And, even if you truly DO believe in a God now, you therefore have to admit that everything came from nothing... because God came from nothing and everything came from God.... therefore, at the very start of the line, you have nothing.

Just some rambling thoughts... sorry if they're not too coherent; it is early =P

Runt said:

I have to agree with Mr_Spinkes on this one. He pretty much said everything I wanted to say. One more thing, though; as far as I can tell, you do not like the idea that "something came from nothing" because, although some us can THINK about the idea of nothing, none of us have been able to perceive it; in our human perception, EVERYTHING has a cause, which has a cause, which has a cause... and so on and so forth forever. What I don't understand is why, being uncomfortable with the notion that the universe came from nothing, you are able to be attracted to the idea of a God (which, as you said yourself, CAME FROM NOTHING). And, even if you truly DO believe in a God now, you therefore have to admit that everything came from nothing... because God came from nothing and everything came from God.... therefore, at the very start of the line, you have nothing.

Just some rambling thoughts... sorry if they're not too coherent; it is early =P

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I know exactly what your saying. But doesn't everything in life have a catch?

Unless, God is the empty spaces. The largest part of an atom is empty space.

Lightkeeper said:

Unless, God is the empty spaces. The largest part of an atom is empty space.

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I think they already proved it wasn't empty but rather really small nano particles.

The spaces between the particles is quanta carrying forces. God could be the space between the particles.

wait and these spaces are omnipotent?

I thought it was proven in another thread that Mr. Sprinkles was god.......

..... or maybe I had too much communion wine this morning........

Smile everyone!
Scott

Unless, God is the empty spaces. The largest part of an atom is empty space.

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That is like saying, "God is really the sun. Look at the sun; it exists! Science knows all about it! Therefore God exists, and science knows all about It!"

As I have been told many times, why can't those empty spaces just be that... empty space? Why must we rename them and apply an entire set of extra unprovable characteristics (gender, personality, thought, Word, etc) to them? And, frankly, why would we want to do so? The fact that the universe is primarily empty space despite the illusion of solidarity is amazing/mysterious/awesome enough on its own... what real benefit is there in deciding this space is God?