LDS letter on same-sex marriage

Magic Man · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
It doesn't. that is my whole point. you cannot compare Gays to blacks because the two do not correlate at all

First, they do. Second, even if you don't like that comparison, you can then make the comparison between gays and Mormons. As I said in my last post, which you've conveniently grossed over, I explained the inconsistency of your ideas. You want religious people to get special exceptions to laws, but you think gay people shouldn't get special consideration, even though they're not asking for it.

9-10ths_Penguin · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
It doesn't. that is my whole point.

Actually, the way you've been moving your goalposts, I'd say it's more of a long, wobbly line than a point now.

madhatter85 said:
you cannot compare Gays to blacks because the two do not correlate at all

Sure they do. They correlate in all sorts of ways.

Let's see how. To get the ball rolling: what is the reason for legal equality on the basis of race? Hint: it's not genetics.

madhatter85 · Jan 14, 2011

mball1297 said:
First, they do.

please explain to me how gays and blacks correlate.

McBell · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
please explain to me how gays and blacks correlate.

Someone explain to him that the exact same arguments used against interracial marriage are being used against same sex marriage.

madhatter85 · Jan 14, 2011

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Sure they do. They correlate in all sorts of ways.

I have yet to see how. nobody has provided an explanation other than "They do!"

Let's see how. To get the ball rolling: what is the reason for legal equality on the basis of race? Hint: it's not genetics.

Technically it was. You have to realize that the discrimination was based on outward appearances and thinking that they were "savages". They were considered less than human based on genetic differences whether or not they knew that at the time.

Simply being 'black' (genetics) has no effect on their behavior. Behavioral differences between cultures are based on socioeconomic development including everything from their parents treatment of them to the conditions of their community.

9-10ths_Penguin · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
please explain to me how gays and blacks correlate.

I'm trying:

9-10ths_Penguin said:
To get the ball rolling: what is the reason for legal equality on the basis of race? Hint: it's not genetics.

no-body · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
Simply being 'black' (genetics) has no effect on their behavior. Behavioral differences between cultures are based on socioeconomic development including everything from their parents treatment of them to the conditions of their community.

Did you just imply your own culture and background are superior to others?

happyhummingbird · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
did i say worthless? did I not say I was having fun (watching you guys go all bonkers over my opinions)?

Hardly bonkers, just it amazement that a human being can be so callous, uneducated, etc. It's like watching a train wreck, you just cannot take your eyes away from it.

madhatter85 · Jan 14, 2011

no-body said:
Did you just imply your own culture and background are superior to others?

............ :facepalm:

that would be an astounding "no"

madhatter85 · Jan 14, 2011

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I'm trying:

no you posed another question rather than an answer. I would like for you to explain how it is you think that being black, white, asian, or any other ethnicity compares to being "gay".

no-body · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
............

that would be an astounding "no"

oh OK.

Simply being 'black' (genetics) has no effect on their behavior. Behavioral differences between cultures are based on socioeconomic development including everything from their parents treatment of them to the conditions of their community.

Same with being gay.You have to do a lot of twisting and bigoted thinking to twist homosexual acts as negative even if someone "chooses" to do them.

happyhummingbird · Jan 14, 2011

no-body said:
Same with being gay.You have to do a lot of twisting and bigoted thinking to twist homosexual acts as negative even if someone "chooses" to do them.

Well, you see, many members of the LDS Church think that GBLT people choose to be gay. Isn't that just wrong?

dallas1125 · Jan 14, 2011

happyhummingbird said:
Well, you see, many members of the LDS Church think that GBLT people choose to be gay. Isn't that just wrong?

Isnt that more of misinformation?

Watchmen · Jan 14, 2011

happyhummingbird said:
Well, you see, many members of the LDS Church think that GBLT people choose to be gay. Isn't that just wrong?

While "many members of the LDS Church" might think it's a choice, general authorities have expressly stated that they do not know whether it's biological or environmental or a choice or a combination.

9-10ths_Penguin · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
no you posed another question rather than an answer.

I posed it in order to work toward an answer.

I'll let you peek a few pages ahead: once we come to an agreement on the basis of legal equality between races, I'm going to explore whether the same basis applies in the case of same-sex marriage.

However, we can't do step 2 until we do step 1. So... are you going to work with me? Will you tell me what you think is the basis for legal equality between races?

madhatter85 said:
I would like for you to explain how it is you think that being black, white, asian, or any other ethnicity compares to being "gay".

Here's why, IMO:

Regardless of whether a person is black, white asian or any other ethnicity, that person is still a person and therefore is entitled to all rights afforded to a person on the basis of his or her personhood.

Similarily, regardless of whether a person is gay, straight, bi, or any other sexual orientation, that person is still a person and therefore is entitled to all rights afforded to a person on the basis of his or her personhood.

Magic Man · Jan 14, 2011

madhatter85 said:
please explain to me how gays and blacks correlate.

Well, it's simple. They are both groups of people who been discriminated against on the basis of something beyond their control. Whether or not homosexuality is technically a choice, it's not a choice like which car you buy. It's not like gay people one day say "Hey, I think I'll be gay. It's realization they come to, and they can't say "Hey, I don't feel like being yay, so I'm going to be straight".

Now, I find it quite interesting that you ignored my second point (again). How do you explain the fact that you want religious people to get special concessions, but then you say groups of people shouldn't get special concessions?

painted wolf · Jan 14, 2011

Actually, h's saying certain religious groups get special treatment... the ones that agree with him. All religious groups that have no problem with GBLT members do not deserve freedom of religion.

Freedom of religion is only for those who don't support GBLT rights.

wa:do

happyhummingbird · Jan 15, 2011

Watchmen said:
While "many members of the LDS Church" might think it's a choice, general authorities have expressly stated that they do not know whether it's biological or environmental or a choice or a combination.

Which just reinforces the beliefs that people "could" choose in the members minds. You know that if the First Presidency doesn't take a stand on it, people will always believe that it was a choice.

happyhummingbird · Jan 15, 2011

dallas1125 said:
Isnt that more of misinformation?

What part?

dallas1125 · Jan 15, 2011

happyhummingbird said:
Which just reinforces the beliefs that people "could" choose in the members minds. You know that if the First Presidency doesn't take a stand on it, people will always believe that it was a choice.

I disagree, I am glad the first presidency has taken no stance. Let the members think for themselves.

LDS letter on same-sex marriage

Reaper of Conversation

1/10 Subway Stalinist

Transhumanist

Resident Sourpuss

Transhumanist

1/10 Subway Stalinist

Well-Known Member

Member

Transhumanist

Transhumanist

Well-Known Member

Member

Covert Operative

Well-Known Member

1/10 Subway Stalinist

Reaper of Conversation

Grey Muzzle

Member

Member

Covert Operative