Who killed all those babies?

(I can't continue this thread here. I was booted. I may move it elsewhere.)

I am confused about something concerning the Christ story, and maybe you can help.

Why did all those babies have to die by Herod's hand after Christ was born?

This has always bothered me. Couldn't God have just been born like any other child without causing the slaughter of a bunch of innocents? Christ's birth was foreordained by God, if Christinity is true; so clearly God knew Christ's birth would result in that massacre, right? If we have any doubt about God's knowledge of Christ's harrowing escape from death during infancy, we need only read this in Mathew:

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

"Angel of the Lord," makes it perfectly clear to me that God knew full well what was going on there in Judea.

Further, there exists in the "Word of God" passages that speak of God's Omniscience:

1John, 3:19-20
Job 37:16
Psalms 147:5
Proverbs 15:3
Mathew 10:29

To offer just a few.

Herod did the killing, but with God's foreknowledge. Now, millions of babies are born every year without causing a slaughter, so why could God not have done the same? Does God not care about babies? Why do Christians rarely speak of these babies and their pained mothers who suffered for the sake of Christ's birth?

Most importantly: How can I have faith in the idea that the Christian God can offer me salvation for all eternity, when that same God couldn't even do what billions of mothers have done naturally? and be born without causing the slaughter of a bunch of babies. Is the Christian God really as inept as He seems, or am I just missing something?

Thanks

WanderingSoul said:

I am confused about something concerning the Christ story, and maybe you can help.

Why did all those babies have to die by Herod's hand after Christ was born?

This has always bothered me. Couldn't God have just been born like any other child without causing the slaughter of a bunch of innocents? Christ's birth was foreordained by God, if Christinity is true; so clearly God knew Christ's birth would result in that massacre, right? If we have any doubt about God's knowledge of Christ's harrowing escape from death during infancy, we need only read this in Mathew:

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

"Angel of the Lord," makes it perfectly clear to me that God knew full well what was going on there in Judea.

Further, there exists in the "Word of God" passages that speak of God's Omniscience:

1John, 3:19-20
Job 37:16
Psalms 147:5
Proverbs 15:3
Mathew 10:29

To offer just a few.

Herod did the killing, but with God's foreknowledge. Now, millions of babies are born every year without causing a slaughter, so why could God not have done the same? Does God not care about babies? Why do Christians rarely speak of these babies and their pained mothers who suffered for the sake of Christ's birth?

Most importantly: How can I have faith in the idea that the Christian God can offer me salvation for all eternity, when that same God couldn't even do what billions of mothers have done naturally? and be born without causing the slaughter of a bunch of babies. Is the Christian God really as inept as He seems, or am I just missing something?

Thanks

Click to expand...

actually with the doctrine of foreknowledge means God couldnt have done anything, because it is impossible to change the future because of Gods eternalness.

unless of course your talking about molonism.

i can go more the theory if u want

tarasan said:

actually with the doctrine of foreknowledge means God couldnt have done anything, because it is impossible to change the future because of Gods eternalness.

unless of course your talking about molonism.

i can go more the theory if u want

Click to expand...

Okay, then let me drag in OMNIPOTENCE:

Mathew 19:26: Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Job 42:2: I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.

Luke 1:37: For with God nothing shall be impossible.

I could go on and on here, but I don't think you need me to, do you?

No, there can be no doubt, God did the deed. The question for me is, was it really necessary? How can I trust such a God with my soul's welfare when he couldn't even do the work of a peasant girl, any day of the week?

WanderingSoul said:

Okay, then let me drag in OMNIPOTENCE:

Mathew 19:26: Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Job 42:2: I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.

Luke 1:37: For with God nothing shall be impossible.

I could go on and on here, but I don't think you need me to, do you?

No, there can be no doubt, God did the deed. The question for me is, was it really necessary? How can I trust such a God with my soul's welfare when he couldn't even do the work of a peasant girl, any day of the week?

Click to expand...

erm luke 1:37?
Luke 1:37 (New International Version, ©2010)

37 For no word from God will ever fail.”



not sure how you got impossible from that man....


anyway in theology impotentice doesnt mean illogical things such as make a person a non person or a squared circle. illogical things arnt real their just gibberish on a page, therefore God cant do them, because there is nothing to do

WanderingSoul said:

I am confused about something concerning the Christ story, and maybe you can help.

Why did all those babies have to die by Herod's hand after Christ was born?

This has always bothered me. Couldn't God have just been born like any other child without causing the slaughter of a bunch of innocents? Christ's birth was foreordained by God, if Christinity is true; so clearly God knew Christ's birth would result in that massacre, right? If we have any doubt about God's knowledge of Christ's harrowing escape from death during infancy, we need only read this in Mathew:

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

"Angel of the Lord," makes it perfectly clear to me that God knew full well what was going on there in Judea.

Further, there exists in the "Word of God" passages that speak of God's Omniscience:

1John, 3:19-20
Job 37:16
Psalms 147:5
Proverbs 15:3
Mathew 10:29

To offer just a few.

Herod did the killing, but with God's foreknowledge. Now, millions of babies are born every year without causing a slaughter, so why could God not have done the same? Does God not care about babies? Why do Christians rarely speak of these babies and their pained mothers who suffered for the sake of Christ's birth?

Most importantly: How can I have faith in the idea that the Christian God can offer me salvation for all eternity, when that same God couldn't even do what billions of mothers have done naturally? and be born without causing the slaughter of a bunch of babies. Is the Christian God really as inept as He seems, or am I just missing something?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Don't worry about those babies.....the story is fiction.

Matthew 2:18
A VOICE WAS HEARD IN RAMAH,
WEEPING AND GREAT MOURNING,
RACHEL WEEPING FOR HER CHILDREN;
AND SHE REFUSED TO BE COMFORTED,
BECAUSE THEY WERE NO MORE."

First..Ramah is about 10 miles from Bethlehem where Jesus was living.
Second....Leah was the mother of the Jews, not Rachel.
Third if you look back in Jeremiah where the Bible quote originated you see that the children are alive. They were just captive.
Jeremiah 31:15-16
15Thus says the LORD,
"A voice is heard in Ramah,
Lamentation and bitter weeping
Rachel is weeping for her children;
She refuses to be comforted for her children,
Because they are no more."
16Thus says the LORD,
"Restrain your voice from weeping
And your eyes from tears;
For your work will be rewarded," declares the LORD,
"And they will return from the land of the enemy.

BigRed

BigRed said:

Don't worry about those babies.....the story is fiction.

Matthew 2:18
A VOICE WAS HEARD IN RAMAH,
WEEPING AND GREAT MOURNING,
RACHEL WEEPING FOR HER CHILDREN;
AND SHE REFUSED TO BE COMFORTED,
BECAUSE THEY WERE NO MORE."

First..Ramah is about 10 miles from Bethlehem where Jesus was living.
Second....Leah was the mother of the Jews, not Rachel.
Third if you look back in Jeremiah where the Bible quote originated you see that the children are alive. They were just captive.
Jeremiah 31:15-16
15Thus says the LORD,
"A voice is heard in Ramah,
Lamentation and bitter weeping
Rachel is weeping for her children;
She refuses to be comforted for her children,
Because they are no more."
16Thus says the LORD,
"Restrain your voice from weeping
And your eyes from tears;
For your work will be rewarded," declares the LORD,
"And they will return from the land of the enemy.

BigRed

Click to expand...

Hey this is the Christian DIR you are here to ask respectful questions not amke attacks!

tarasan said:

Hey this is the Christian DIR you are here to ask respectful questions not amke attacks!

Click to expand...

I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm new here. There was no personal attack.
I was just giving my opinion and I presented evidence to support my opinion.
I read the rules and I don't understand how I could be violating any rules.
Please quote the rule you feel I violated.

BigRed

hmmm not amazing evidence but you are new here....

0. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

you wanna debate do it somewhere else

tarasan said:

erm luke 1:37?
Luke 1:37 (New International Version, ©2010)

37 For no word from God will ever fail.”



not sure how you got impossible from that man....


anyway in theology impotentice doesnt mean illogical things such as make a person a non person or a squared circle. illogical things arnt real their just gibberish on a page, therefore God cant do them, because there is nothing to do

Click to expand...

I got that quote from an online bible; I'm not sure of the version. It's not important, my point was sufficiently made.

Anyway...

Friend, I'm not talking "theology" here; I'm talking commonsense love and Godliness. I'm not trying to square a circle, I'm just puzzled as to why an omniscient/omnipotent God would stumble into history like a big, dumb gorilla and cause the slaughter of a bunch of cute babies for no good reason.

Let the children come to me; do not hinder them.” . . . And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them. (Mark 10:14-16)

"Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me." (Mark 9:37)

"Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3-4)

This is Jesus talking here, the same "man" whose birth caused a baby genocide. Amazing that he did not at some time in his ministry pay tribute to them and their mothers for their sacrifice. Even more amazing is the unspoken audacity of him to speak so lovinly of children, when he himself caused the death of so many.

BigRed said:

Don't worry about those babies.....the story is fiction. [Clipped from author]

Click to expand...

Does that mean the whole Christ story is a fiction? or do you mean just that one part?

WanderingSoul said:

I got that quote from an online bible; I'm not sure of the version. It's not important, my point was sufficiently made.

Anyway...

Friend, I'm not talking "theology" here; I'm talking commonsense love and Godliness. I'm not trying to square a circle, I'm just puzzled as to why an omniscient/omnipotent God would stumble into history like a big, dumb gorilla and cause the slaughter of a bunch of cute babies for no good reason.

Let the children come to me; do not hinder them.” . . . And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them. (Mark 10:14-16)

"Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me." (Mark 9:37)

"Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3-4)

This is Jesus talking here, the same "man" whose birth caused a baby genocide. Amazing that he did not at some time in his ministry pay tribute to them and their mothers for their sacrifice. Even more amazing is the unspoken audacity of him to speak so lovinly of children, when he himself caused the death of so many.

Click to expand...

mate the fact that God cannot do the logically impossible is very vital here, and no its not sufficantly made because those verses talk about God doing "things" illogical statements arnt things their gibberish.

so whenever you claim someone who is eternal and what you cliam to have "foreknowledge" then you cant expect him to be able to change the future.

Christian theology is vital because we use it to explian the bible,

tarasan said:

hmmm not amazing evidence but you are new here....

0. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

you wanna debate do it somewhere else

Click to expand...

I'll move.
Good bye
BigRed

tarasan said:

hmmm not amazing evidence but you are new here....

0. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

you wanna debate do it somewhere else

Click to expand...

Oh, my, I'm embarrassed. I'm new in here, I didn't know. I guess I should have been more careful. What should I do now? just abandon this controversial and deliciously inflammatory thread?

tarasan said:

mate the fact that God cannot do the logically impossible is very vital here, and no its not sufficantly made because those verses talk about God doing "things" illogical statements arnt things their gibberish.

so whenever you claim someone who is eternal and what you cliam to have "foreknowledge" then you cant expect him to be able to change the future.

Christian theology is vital because we use it to explian the bible,

Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess I can't do this in here. I didn't know I can't debate in this...whatever it is. Maybe I can find another spot and we can continue there.

Maybe I'll see you later.