Mohamed (PBUH) in the bible !!!

The Truth said:

But the Comforter, Which is The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (Emphasis added).

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 26

You do not have to be a Bible scholar of any calibre to sense that the expression "which is the Holy Spirit" is actually an interpolation. It ought to be in parenthesis, in brackets, like my words which have been interpolated in the quotation, i.e. "(emphasis added)." Although the editors of the RSV have expunged dozens of interpolations from their boasted Revised Standard Version, they have retained this jarring phrase which contradicts other explicit predictions of Jesus (pbuh) on the subject of the Comforter itself.


(i) It may be noted that no Biblical scholar of any standing has ever equated the "paracletos" of John in the original Greek with the Holy Ghost. Now we can say with one breath that if the Comforter is the "Holy Spirit" then that Holy Spirit is the Holy Prophet!

As Muslims we acknowledge that every true prophet of God is Holy and without sin. But whenever the expression "The Holy Prophet" is used among Muslims it is universally accepted as referring to the Holy Prophet Muhummed (pbuh). So even if we accept the above incongruous saying — "the Comforter which is the Holy Spirit," as Gospel truth, even then this prophecy will fit Muhummed (pbuh) like a glove, without any stretching of its meaning.

The same John, who is supposed to have authored the Gospel bearing his name, also penned three more Epistles which are also part of the Christian Bible. Amazingly he has used the same terminology of "Holy Spirit" for "Holy Prophet."

Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they

are of God; because many false Prophets are gone out into the World.
(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 1

You can observe that the word spirit is used here synonymously with a prophet. A true spirit is a true prophet, and a false spirit is a false prophet But for the Christians who see only with eyes of emotion, I recommend that they lay their hands on C.I. Scofield's Authorized King lames Version of the Bible who with an Editorial Committee of 9 D.D.’s adding their notes and comments. When they come to the First word "spirit" in the above verse they should give a notation to compare it with Matthew 7: 15 which confirms that false prophets are false spirits. So according to St. John the Holy Spirit is the Holy Prophet, and the Holy Prophet is Muhummed (pbuh) the Messenger of God.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 2

According to John's own interpretation in verse one above the word "spirit" is synonymous with the word prophet So verse two "Spirit of God" would mean Prophet of God and "Every spirit" would stand for every Prophet You have a right to know as to what the Holy Prophet Muhummed (pbuh) says about "Jesus Christ."

Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) is spoken by name no less than 25 times in the Holy Qur'an. He is honoured as —

Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus, the son of Mary)

An-nabi (The Prophet)

As-saaliheen (The Righteous)

Kalimatu'Llah (Word of God)

Ruhu-Llah (Spirit of God)

Masih-uLlah (Christ of God)



Behold the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee Glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held In honour in this world and The Hereafter and of (the Company of) those nearest to God-
(SURA al-i-'imran) Holy Qur'an 3:45

Click to expand...

Hi The truth, Im sorry, you have picked me up wrong, I know you believe in Jesus, I just don't understand how you can say you believe in Him and not take heed of when he speaks..for example..

Jesus says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, No-One comes to the father except through Him...Jesus is the one we need to except, Jesus said so...

You quoted from the Quran, Jesus " the son of Mary "..Yes she gave birth to him, In Matt, 1:20 b " Joseph Son of David, Do not be afraid to Take mary as your wife, For the child who has been concieved in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Now if Mohammad is the Holy Spirit, like you say He is, Then he is the Father of Jesus..That makes no sense...

You also quoted from the Quran, Behold the angels said " O Mary God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, His name will be Christ Jesus " Son of Mary.."

Scripture tells us Mathew 21, She will bare a son and you shall call His name Jesus, FOR HE WILL SAVE PEOPLE FROM THIER SINS..
Now all this took place to FULFILL What was spoken by the Lord through the prophet 23, " Behold the virgin shall be with Child and shall bear a Son, and they shall Call His name Immanuel which translated means GOD IS WITH USGOD IS WITH US

So here we have two Statements, one from the Quaran and one from the Scriptures..Both can't be right because they are contridicting each other..If you believe the Bible to be from God, and God is telling us who and what Jesus will do and that's save people from their sins.. who do we believe, God our creator, or Mohammad..

(ii) The Comforter in John 14: 26 can never be the "Holy Ghost" because Jesus (pbuh) had already explained ...

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 16

The emphasis here is on the word "ANOTHER," an other, a different one, an additional one, but of the same kind, yet distinctly different from the first. Who is then the first Comforter? The Christian world is unanimous that in this case the speaker himself — Jesus Christ (pbuh) is the first Comforter; then the other, the one to follow must be of like nature, subject to the same conditions of hunger, thirst, fatigue, sorrow and death.

But this promised Comforter was to "abide with you for EVER!" No one lives for even Jesus (pbuh) was mortal so must the coming Comforter also be mortal. No son of man can ever be immortal!
[font=Garamond, times new roman][/font]"Every soul shall have a taste of death".(SURAAL-I-IMRAN) Holy Qur'an 5:185

glasgowchick said:

Now if Mohammad is the Holy Spirit, like you say He is, Then he is the Father of Jesus..That makes no sense...

Click to expand...

I guess you mixed up things.

(iii) The Comforter is definitely not the "Holy Ghost" because the coming of the Comforter was conditional whereas that of the Holy Ghost was not as we observe in the prophecy ...

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go for If I Go Not Away, The Comforter Will Not Come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (Do you think God wasn't there at all when Jesus was on the earth and he will send his God when he go???)

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 7

"lf I don't go he won't come, but if I go, I will send him." There are numerous instances in the Holy Bible about the coming andgoing of the HOLY GHOST, before the birth and departure of the Messiah. Do yourself a favour, please verify these references in your Bible ...

[font=Garamond, times new roman]
B.C. BEFORE CHRIST'S BIRTH:
[/font]1. ... and he (John the Baptist) shall be
filled with the Holy Ghost,
even from his mother's womb.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1: 15 [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
2. ... and Elizabeth was filled
with the Holy Ghost.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1: 41[font=Garamond, times new roman]

[/font]3. And his father Zacharias was
filled with the Holy Ghost.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1:67

[font=Garamond, times new roman]

A.C. AFTER CHRIST'S BIRTH:
[/font]4. ... and the Holy Ghost was upon him (Simeon).[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 2:26

5. And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily
shape like a dove upon him (Jesus). [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3:22

So, we conclude that The Holy Ghost is not the Holy Spirit because Jesus can't claim saying that he will send someone to us while that one was there already on the earth before even Jesus Christ exist.

From the above quotations, before and after the birth of Jesus (pbuh), one cannot help admiring St. Luke who appears to be a specialist on the Holy Ghost We may well ask the Christians, after the descent of the "dove", with whose help did Jesus (pbuh) perform his many miracles if not with the help of the Holy Ghost? Let the Master himself tell us. When accused by his own people, the Jews, that he was working in league with Beelzebub (the chief of the devils) to work his miracles, Jesus (pbuh) rhetorically questions them, "How can Satan cast out Satan?" The Jews imputed that this spirit of holiness - the Spirit of God - which was helping him, was devilish. This was treason of the highest order. So he gives them a dire warning:[font=Garamond, times new roman]

[/font]... but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, it shall never be forgiven [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 12:31

This "Holy Ghost" is non other than what Matthew himself has described in three verses before quoting the Master: [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
But if I (Jesus) cast out devils by the Spirit OF God, then the kingdom of God is come upon you.
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 12:28[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font][font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]Compare the same statement by another Gospel writer[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
But if I (Jesus) by the Finger Of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3:22


You do not have to be a Bible scholar to understand that the expressions (a) "Finger of God" (b) "Spirit of God" and (c) "Holy Ghost" are all synonymous phrases. So the Holy Ghost was helping Jesus (pbuh) in his ministry. The Holy Ghost was also helping his disciples on their missions of preaching and healing. If there is still any doubt in your minds about the workings of the Holy Ghost then please read:

...as my Father hath sent me, even so I send you (the disciples of Jesus),
And when he had said this, be breathed on them, and saith unto them,
Receive Ye The Holy Ghost (HOLY BIBLE) John 20: 21 –22


This was surely no empty promise. The disciples must have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. So if the "Holy Ghost" was with (1) John the Baptist, (2) Elizabeth. (3) Zacharias. (4) Simeon. (5) Jesus and (6) the Disciples of Jesus; then all this makes nonsense of the saying that "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you." Therefore the Comforter is not the Holy Ghost?

If I take the liberty of quoting the prophecy under discussion, with an emphasis on the pronouns, you will agree without any persuasion that the coming Comforter was to be a man and not a ghost.

Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come. . He</U> will guide you into all truth:

for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall

He speak: and He will show you things to come.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 13

Please count the number of He's in the above verse. There are s-e-v-e-n! Seven masculine pronouns in a single verse! There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or in the 73 Books of the Catholic Bible with seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or with seven neuter genders. You will agree that so many masculine pronouns in one verse ill befits a Ghost, holy or not!


Peace ...

The Truth said:

(ii) The Comforter in John 14: 26 can never be the "Holy Ghost" because Jesus (pbuh) had already explained ...

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 16

The emphasis here is on the word "ANOTHER," an other, a different one, an additional one, but of the same kind, yet distinctly different from the first. Who is then the first Comforter? The Christian world is unanimous that in this case the speaker himself — Jesus Christ (pbuh) is the first Comforter; then the other, the one to follow must be of like nature, subject to the same conditions of hunger, thirst, fatigue, sorrow and death.

But this promised Comforter was to "abide with you for EVER!" No one lives for even Jesus (pbuh) was mortal so must the coming Comforter also be mortal. No son of man can ever be immortal!
[font=Garamond, times new roman][/font]"Every soul shall have a taste of death".(SURAAL-I-IMRAN) Holy Qur'an 5:185

I guess you mixed up things.

(iii) The Comforter is definitely not the "Holy Ghost" because the coming of the Comforter was conditional whereas that of the Holy Ghost was not as we observe in the prophecy ...

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go for If I Go Not Away, The Comforter Will Not Come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (Do you think God wasn't there at all when Jesus was on the earth and he will send his God when he go???)

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 7

"lf I don't go he won't come, but if I go, I will send him." There are numerous instances in the Holy Bible about the coming andgoing of the HOLY GHOST, before the birth and departure of the Messiah. Do yourself a favour, please verify these references in your Bible ...

[font=Garamond, times new roman]
B.C. BEFORE CHRIST'S BIRTH:
[/font]1. ... and he (John the Baptist) shall be
filled with the Holy Ghost,
even from his mother's womb.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1: 15 [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
2. ... and Elizabeth was filled
with the Holy Ghost.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1: 41[font=Garamond, times new roman]

[/font]3. And his father Zacharias was
filled with the Holy Ghost.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1:67

[font=Garamond, times new roman]

A.C. AFTER CHRIST'S BIRTH:
[/font]4. ... and the Holy Ghost was upon him (Simeon).[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 2:26

5. And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily
shape like a dove upon him (Jesus). [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3:22

So, we conclude that The Holy Ghost is not the Holy Spirit because Jesus can't claim saying that he will send someone to us while that one was there already on the earth before even Jesus Christ exist.

From the above quotations, before and after the birth of Jesus (pbuh), one cannot help admiring St. Luke who appears to be a specialist on the Holy Ghost We may well ask the Christians, after the descent of the "dove", with whose help did Jesus (pbuh) perform his many miracles if not with the help of the Holy Ghost? Let the Master himself tell us. When accused by his own people, the Jews, that he was working in league with Beelzebub (the chief of the devils) to work his miracles, Jesus (pbuh) rhetorically questions them, "How can Satan cast out Satan?" The Jews imputed that this spirit of holiness - the Spirit of God - which was helping him, was devilish. This was treason of the highest order. So he gives them a dire warning:[font=Garamond, times new roman]

[/font]... but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, it shall never be forgiven [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 12:31

This "Holy Ghost" is non other than what Matthew himself has described in three verses before quoting the Master: [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
But if I (Jesus) cast out devils by the Spirit OF God, then the kingdom of God is come upon you.
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 12:28[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font][font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]Compare the same statement by another Gospel writer[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
But if I (Jesus) by the Finger Of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3:22


You do not have to be a Bible scholar to understand that the expressions (a) "Finger of God" (b) "Spirit of God" and (c) "Holy Ghost" are all synonymous phrases. So the Holy Ghost was helping Jesus (pbuh) in his ministry. The Holy Ghost was also helping his disciples on their missions of preaching and healing. If there is still any doubt in your minds about the workings of the Holy Ghost then please read:

...as my Father hath sent me, even so I send you (the disciples of Jesus),
And when he had said this, be breathed on them, and saith unto them,
Receive Ye The Holy Ghost (HOLY BIBLE) John 20: 21 –22


This was surely no empty promise. The disciples must have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. So if the "Holy Ghost" was with (1) John the Baptist, (2) Elizabeth. (3) Zacharias. (4) Simeon. (5) Jesus and (6) the Disciples of Jesus; then all this makes nonsense of the saying that "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you." Therefore the Comforter is not the Holy Ghost?

If I take the liberty of quoting the prophecy under discussion, with an emphasis on the pronouns, you will agree without any persuasion that the coming Comforter was to be a man and not a ghost.

Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come. . He</U> will guide you into all truth:

for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall

He speak: and He will show you things to come.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 13

Please count the number of He's in the above verse. There are s-e-v-e-n! Seven masculine pronouns in a single verse! There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or in the 73 Books of the Catholic Bible with seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or with seven neuter genders. You will agree that so many masculine pronouns in one verse ill befits a Ghost, holy or not!


Peace ...

Click to expand...

" Wow " Slow down a bit please...Let me ask you a couple of Questions,

Do you believe there is a God, the creator of the Universe..?
Do you believe there was a Jesus who lived here on Earth..?
Do you believe there is a comforter that came after Jesus ..?

I am Guessing you have answered " yes" to those questions

Now if you will, lets have a look at your own words..

You said that the Comforter in John 14 : 26 can Never be the Holy Ghost..So by your own definition, there is a Holy Ghost ? where did he come from..

The truth, Tell me what you think of these Scriptures..

The Bible says..that Christ died for our sins..1Corin 15:3

1Corin 15:17 says " And if Christ has NOT been raised,

The Truth said:

(ii) The Comforter in John 14: 26 can never be the "Holy Ghost" because Jesus (pbuh) had already explained ...

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 16

The emphasis here is on the word "ANOTHER," an other, a different one, an additional one, but of the same kind, yet distinctly different from the first. Who is then the first Comforter? The Christian world is unanimous that in this case the speaker himself — Jesus Christ (pbuh) is the first Comforter; then the other, the one to follow must be of like nature, subject to the same conditions of hunger, thirst, fatigue, sorrow and death.

But this promised Comforter was to "abide with you for EVER!" No one lives for even Jesus (pbuh) was mortal so must the coming Comforter also be mortal. No son of man can ever be immortal!
[font=Garamond, times new roman][/font]"Every soul shall have a taste of death".(SURAAL-I-IMRAN) Holy Qur'an 5:185

I guess you mixed up things.

(iii) The Comforter is definitely not the "Holy Ghost" because the coming of the Comforter was conditional whereas that of the Holy Ghost was not as we observe in the prophecy ...

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go for If I Go Not Away, The Comforter Will Not Come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (Do you think God wasn't there at all when Jesus was on the earth and he will send his God when he go???)

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 7

"lf I don't go he won't come, but if I go, I will send him." There are numerous instances in the Holy Bible about the coming andgoing of the HOLY GHOST, before the birth and departure of the Messiah. Do yourself a favour, please verify these references in your Bible ...

[font=Garamond, times new roman]
B.C. BEFORE CHRIST'S BIRTH:
[/font]1. ... and he (John the Baptist) shall be
filled with the Holy Ghost,
even from his mother's womb.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1: 15 [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
2. ... and Elizabeth was filled
with the Holy Ghost.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1: 41[font=Garamond, times new roman]

[/font]3. And his father Zacharias was
filled with the Holy Ghost.
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 1:67

[font=Garamond, times new roman]

A.C. AFTER CHRIST'S BIRTH:
[/font]4. ... and the Holy Ghost was upon him (Simeon).[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 2:26

5. And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily
shape like a dove upon him (Jesus). [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3:22

So, we conclude that The Holy Ghost is not the Holy Spirit because Jesus can't claim saying that he will send someone to us while that one was there already on the earth before even Jesus Christ exist.

From the above quotations, before and after the birth of Jesus (pbuh), one cannot help admiring St. Luke who appears to be a specialist on the Holy Ghost We may well ask the Christians, after the descent of the "dove", with whose help did Jesus (pbuh) perform his many miracles if not with the help of the Holy Ghost? Let the Master himself tell us. When accused by his own people, the Jews, that he was working in league with Beelzebub (the chief of the devils) to work his miracles, Jesus (pbuh) rhetorically questions them, "How can Satan cast out Satan?" The Jews imputed that this spirit of holiness - the Spirit of God - which was helping him, was devilish. This was treason of the highest order. So he gives them a dire warning:[font=Garamond, times new roman]

[/font]... but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, it shall never be forgiven [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 12:31

This "Holy Ghost" is non other than what Matthew himself has described in three verses before quoting the Master: [font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
But if I (Jesus) cast out devils by the Spirit OF God, then the kingdom of God is come upon you.
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 12:28[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font][font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]Compare the same statement by another Gospel writer[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font]
But if I (Jesus) by the Finger Of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.[font=Garamond, times new roman]
[/font](HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3:22


You do not have to be a Bible scholar to understand that the expressions (a) "Finger of God" (b) "Spirit of God" and (c) "Holy Ghost" are all synonymous phrases. So the Holy Ghost was helping Jesus (pbuh) in his ministry. The Holy Ghost was also helping his disciples on their missions of preaching and healing. If there is still any doubt in your minds about the workings of the Holy Ghost then please read:

...as my Father hath sent me, even so I send you (the disciples of Jesus),
And when he had said this, be breathed on them, and saith unto them,
Receive Ye The Holy Ghost (HOLY BIBLE) John 20: 21 –22


This was surely no empty promise. The disciples must have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. So if the "Holy Ghost" was with (1) John the Baptist, (2) Elizabeth. (3) Zacharias. (4) Simeon. (5) Jesus and (6) the Disciples of Jesus; then all this makes nonsense of the saying that "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you." Therefore the Comforter is not the Holy Ghost?

If I take the liberty of quoting the prophecy under discussion, with an emphasis on the pronouns, you will agree without any persuasion that the coming Comforter was to be a man and not a ghost.

Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come. . He</U> will guide you into all truth:

for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall

He speak: and He will show you things to come.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 13

Please count the number of He's in the above verse. There are s-e-v-e-n! Seven masculine pronouns in a single verse! There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or in the 73 Books of the Catholic Bible with seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or with seven neuter genders. You will agree that so many masculine pronouns in one verse ill befits a Ghost, holy or not!


Peace ...

Click to expand...

Sorry the truth, but Im out of here...The Holy Spirit is not the same as the Holy Ghost

glasgowchick said:

Sorry the truth, but Im out of here...The Holy Spirit is not the same as the Holy Ghost

Click to expand...

Your problem is that you don't want to accept ceratin facts and at the same time you don't know how to neglect it by producing evidence that can prove the opposite.

I feel sorry for you because you are just closing your eyes from seeing things that may destroy what you believe in or may affect it or you feel that it dosn't make any sense.

Maybe the problem is that because you still mature about high level discustion that talk about things you already accepted it as facts that never can be change whatever happened and you can't discuss it professionally except screaming around saying ....
NOT TRUE
NOT TRUE. :bonk:

The Truth said:

Your problem is that you don't want to accept ceratin facts and at the same time you don't know how to neglect it by producing evidence that can prove the opposite.

I feel sorry for you because you are just closing your eyes from seeing things that may destroy what you believe in or may affect it or you feel that it dosn't make any sense.

Maybe the problem is that because you still mature about high level discustion that talk about things you already accepted it as facts that never can be change whatever happened and you can't discuss it professionally except screaming around saying ....
NOT TRUE
NOT TRUE. :bonk:

Click to expand...

Assalamu alaikum brother,

Another point to add to this conundrum is the scriptures were derived from Greek manuscripts but it is interesting to point out that there is NO word in Greek for Ghost so the question must be raised where did this translated word come from.

Salam

glasgowchick said:

Now if you will, lets have a look at your own words..

You said that the Comforter in John 14 : 26 can Never be the Holy Ghost..So by your own definition, there is a Holy Ghost ? where did he come from..

Click to expand...

we can have a new thread about Holy Ghost and Holy spirit but i'm concern here about the Holy spirit and you know better than me who is the other one who is the Holy Ghost because you are christian and it's your own religion and you should know better than that.

glasgowchick said:

The truth, Tell me what you think of these Scriptures..

The Bible says..that Christ died for our sins..1Corin 15:3

1Corin 15:17 says " And if Christ has NOT been raised,

Click to expand...

There are many threads in Rf talking about sin and the Christ whether he has been raised or not and you can even check my posts in it but here we are talking only about Mohamed in the bible.


Peace ...

The Truth said:

Your problem is that you don't want to accept ceratin facts and at the same time you don't know how to neglect it by producing evidence that can prove the opposite.

I feel sorry for you because you are just closing your eyes from seeing things that may destroy what you believe in or may affect it or you feel that it dosn't make any sense.

Maybe the problem is that because you still mature about high level discustion that talk about things you already accepted it as facts that never can be change whatever happened and you can't discuss it professionally except screaming around saying ....
NOT TRUE
NOT TRUE. :bonk:

Click to expand...

Well I could say all the same things about you that you reffer to me..As it was sited on another thread, The Bible is not your Holy book so why bother..You believe the quran to be the word of God, I believe the Bible is the word of God..

glasgowchick said:

Well I could say all the same things about you that you reffer to me..As it was sited on another thread, The Bible is not your Holy book so why bother..You believe the quran to be the word of God, I believe the Bible is the word of God..

Click to expand...

Hi Glasgow;

The holy gospel is the holy book for Muslims too. All books inspired by God are holy and to be revered by believers. I have a bible lying next to my monitor on the table here, for ex.
I read it and take notes.

Omer said:

Hi Glasgow;

The holy gospel is the holy book for Muslims too. All books inspired by God are holy and to be revered by believers. I have a bible lying next to my monitor on the table here, for ex.
I read it and take notes.

Click to expand...

Hi Omer, thanks for clearing that up, I just don't understand how two different books saying two different things can be from the same God..

For example, 1Corin 15:3 Tells me Christ died for our sins.

1Corinth 15:17 Tells me that if Christ has not been raised your faith is in vain and we are sin in our sins..

The Quran says

Sura 4:157 And because of their saying, we slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not Nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! those who disagree concering it, are in doubt thereof, They have no knowlege, thereof save persuit of a conjecture, they slew them not for certain..The Bible says Isa 9:6

A child is born to us! A son is given to us! and He will be our ruler.
He will be called " wonderfull councelor" mighty God" , Eternal Father"
"prince of peace".

Sura 4:171

O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religon nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and his word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from him. So believe in Allah and his messengers and say not three- cease [ it is ] better for you! Allah is only one God, far is it removed from his trancsendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allah is sufficient as defender..

Bible Luke 1:35

The Angel answered, the Holy Spirit will come apon you and Gods power will rest apon you, for this reason the Holy Child will be called the son of God.

Sura 6:101

The Orignator of the heavens and the earth How can he have a child when there is for him no consort, when He created all things and is aware of all things..

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotton Son, That whosoever believeth in Him will not perish, but have everlasting life

Sura 18:4-5 and to warn those who say Allah has chosen a son [ A thing ] wereof they have no knowlege, nor [ had ] their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of thier mouth, but they speak naught but a lie..

If you believe the Bible to be a Holy Book, it also tells us in Titus 1: 2

In the Hope of Eternal life Which God " who cannot lie " promised long ago..

Both of the statements from the Bible and Sura, cannot be correct..So which on do we choose ?..

glasgowchick said:

Sura 18:4-5 and to warn those who say Allah has chosen a son [ A thing ] wereof they have no knowlege, nor [ had ] their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of thier mouth, but they speak naught but a lie..

If you believe the Bible to be a Holy Book, it also tells us in Titus 1: 2

In the Hope of Eternal life Which God " who cannot lie " promised long ago..

Both of the statements from the Bible and Sura, cannot be correct..So which on do we choose ?..

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I am not sure why in the bible is different from what we read in the Quran but do you think there was a mistake that may appear when translating words from a language to another ?

what if the word (son) for example means the one who is near from God like a prophet or somthing like that in hebrew then they translated it as it's without considering the differences in languages because as you know there are many prophets in the bible called (son) too.


Peace ...

The Truth said:

I am not sure why in the bible is different from what we read in the Quran but do you think there was a mistake that may appear when translating words from a language to another ?

what if the word (son) for example means the one who is near from God like a prophet or somthing like that in hebrew then they translated it as it's without considering the differences in languages because as you know there are many prophets in the bible called (son) too.


Peace ...

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Nope, no mistake...

The Truth said:

Your problem is that you don't want to accept ceratin facts and at the same time you don't know how to neglect it by producing evidence that can prove the opposite.

I feel sorry for you because you are just closing your eyes from seeing things that may destroy what you believe in or may affect it or you feel that it dosn't make any sense.

Maybe the problem is that because you still mature about high level discustion that talk about things you already accepted it as facts that never can be change whatever happened and you can't discuss it professionally except screaming around saying ....
NOT TRUE
NOT TRUE. :bonk:

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Have you thought that Glasgowchick could say exactly the same to you ?

michel said:

Have you thought that Glasgowchick could say exactly the same to you ?

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i guess i mess it up isn't it :banghead3

anyway, i apologize for my words if it cause problems and i hope that God will help me to be patient, control myself and to try to not say directly what came up to my mind at once.

God help me :shout

i guess i'll write my reply in Microsoft Word or anywhere else and i'll try to read it and think of it all over again and again before sending it. :bonk:

The Truth said:

i guess i mess it up isn't it :banghead3

anyway, i apologize for my words if it cause problems and i hope that God will help me to be patient, control myself and to try to not say directly what came up to my mind at once.

God help me :shout

i guess i'll write my reply in Microsoft Word or anywhere else and i'll try to read it and think of it all over again and again before sending it. :bonk:

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I am finding it very hard to understand you, one minute you are coming across very forceful, not just here but on other threds too, then when I read a post from you like this one, you come across very humble . If you are anxious to share your beliefs and teach others, then my advice is to start like the apostles did, give learners the milk of the word first, A full slice of steak is hard to swollow at one time.. Also if one does not agree with what you say, please don't start telling people what their problem is, it can be very hurtful to the other person when one is truly trying to share with you too.

glasgowchick said:

Well I could say all the same things about you that you reffer to me..As it was sited on another thread, The Bible is not your Holy book so why bother..You believe the quran to be the word of God, I believe the Bible is the word of God..

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So let us try to come to the conclusion as to which one is correct because would you agree that they both can not be correct. And please tell me why is the Bible the true word of God. And my dear brother we should bother because regardless if you are Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever we all believe in hell and I would not wish that punishment on my worst enemy if I saw some impending doom about to befall my brother I would try to save him. Wouldn't you. So let us if you are a seeker of truth try to find the answers based on what is contained in the books.

I am eager to hear from you

Mujahid Mohammed said:

So let us try to come to the conclusion as to which one is correct because would you agree that they both can not be correct. And please tell me why is the Bible the true word of God. And my dear brother we should bother because regardless if you are Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever we all believe in hell and I would not wish that punishment on my worst enemy if I saw some impending doom about to befall my brother I would try to save him. Wouldn't you. So let us if you are a seeker of truth try to find the answers based on what is contained in the books.

I am eager to hear from you

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Hi Mujahid..I believe the Bible to be the word of God starting with these 4 words " In the begining God "

Jesus as Saviour [ Messiah ] Told from the begining to the end of Scripture. Gods plan for man revealed and evidence given of its fulfillment. God revered -sin rebuked. Chaos to perfection seen. A hope for each individual to be made right with God, the Father, the creator the one God..

The Law and the entire Old Testament, prepare for the coming of Christ.

Galations. 3:23-29...But before faith Came we were kept in custody under the Law, being shut up to the faith wich was later revealed

24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ so we may be Justified by Faith..

25 But now that faith has come we are no longer under a tutor

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ

28 There is niether Jew or Greek, there is niether slave or free, there is nither male or female for you are all one in Christ Jesus

29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abrahams decendants, heirs according to promise....

The Gospels present Christ as the Son of God..[ John 20:30-31 ] fulfilling the promises..

Acts of the Apostles show how to except Christ as Savior [ Acts 2:8,9 10 & 16 ]

The Epistles direct on how to live as a follower of Christ [ 2Peter 1:5-11]
Revelations indecates the promises in Christ and Gods judgement..of the unfaithful and his enemies..

Prophecy and facts..1 Timothy 1:3 warns of false prophets, false teachings are still evident today ..See Mathew 24:4-13.

Ezekiel 26:12-14- destruction of Babylon is prophesied, Secular history records its fulfilment some 350 years later by Alexander The Great..

Jer13:19 Dispersion of Israel foretold [ See kings 17 for Dispention or Northern Kingdom and 2 kings 24:25 for dispention of the southern kingdom ]

Christ fortold the destruction of Jerusalem [ Mat 24:2,15-22 ] it happened in 70A.D

Theory of planetary movement by Copernicus A.D 1543 [ See JOB 38:31-32 ]

Modern shipbuilding says best proportion for ship building is 3x5x30- Noah built His ship ark 45ft high x 75ft wide x450 long [ Gen 6:15 ]

Hipparchus said in 150 B.C that there were less than 3000 stars, Ptolemy said in 150 A.D That there were more than 3000 stars, with the telescope man discovered they were innumberable.. [ See genesis 15:5,22:17, 26 :4 Jeremiah 33:22 Deut 1:10 ]

In recent years man has discovered fresh water springs under the sea [ See Job 38 : 16 ]

Man thought the earth was flat till the 15th centuary.. [See Isa 40:22 ] Some people still believe this...

With all this evidence and fufilled prophecy I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God...Can I prove it..No I cannot, but I except it by faith...

Now I have bombarded you, Im sorry..I didnt mean to go on, I apoligise...

Glaztgowchick said:

THIS IS RESPONSE TO YOUR ABOVE POST

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Oh no please do not apologize it is all very beautifully written. I do not discount certain things that are said because we as muslims are required to believe in the words of Jesus. And no self respected person can discount the morality that the bible does teach us. I just do not understand everything the bible says. Now I have many questions that must be answered before I am to accept the bible as truth. You stated that the people thought that the world was flat until around the 15 century. But did you know that Galileo was tried by the Catholic church and sent to prison for making the claim the world was round based on his contradiction to the church dogma. Why is this if they are believers in the scriptures. There must be something in the bible that the bible is flat I have seen it but unfortunately I will have to relook up the verses.

Under which law are referring in the verses of Galatians and forgive me if I understand this wrong but if the law they are referring to is the Law of Moses. A true believer in the words of Christ can never reject or diregard the law because of faith. Again I apologize if my understanding is incorrect.

Where does Jesus say he is your personal saviour in the scriptures, Is there a verse where he says he will die for the sins of man and be crucified. IN the book of Isaiah 42:10 God Almighty thats besides him there is no saviour. This always confuses me because I do not understand how Jesus is the saviour when God says earlier in his book he is the only saviour.

Now according to some of your Christian bretheren the book dated after 96 A.D are not inspired. Now if he is incorrect please inform me so that I may ask this person for better clarification. Now as a somewhat student of knowledge and seeker of truth such as yourself I read book by acclaimed scholars of religion who have carbon dated the oldest manuscripts in the Vatican (Codex Sinaticus) to be dated around 350 A.D. Which makes sense because according to religious historians the true Greco-Roman form of Christianity which is the one everyone has today and its dogmas were really not put into stone until 325 A.D. in the Council of Nicea when Emperor Constantine created or established the Trinity. There are many books you can get on this significant religious event.

My dear sister do you know of any contradictions in the bible or mistakes made by the authors. If not again there are many books illustrating these things. Now to ask the really hard questions.

Where in the bible does the bible say it is God's word?

How many authors are there and what are their names?

Why are there many Gnostic religions whose figure heads went through the exact same thing as Jesus and called the same thing as him. I have listed a few of them in another post. For instance the Egyptian Sun God Osiris is almost word for word the same as Jesus. Why is this if my Christian bretheren that I talk to tell me these are only attributes attributed to Jesus.

Why is there a need for sacrifice when Hosea 6:6 says there is no need for it.

Why does the KJV of the bible keep changing and have you seen the cover page of the original printed in 1611? The original had 80 books and then in 1885 they where removed by the Bishop of Canteburry. If he according to certain Christian was not inspired how could he and who gave him authorization to do that.

How can in Genesis 22:1-2 Isaac be the only son. when he was not first born

Why is the Zodiac mentioned in the bible when it is considered to be evil?

Why did God fail to mention his name as the father of Jesus in the Geneology of him and why are the two geneologies different with different names listed. Did God forget to inspire the writer to include himself

Did Matthew write Matthew? If he did read 9:9 and tell me why is it in third person.

Why are there 100 and according to certain Christian scholars and groups 1000's of contradictions?

Why are Pagan holiday celebrated such as Easter and Christmas celebrated by Christians when these people are the hethens ie. the Gentiles Jesus was talking about.

Why does Paul contradict Jesus?

What happened to all the Hebrew scriptures it is historically stated they were all destroyed in the Council of Nicea and later councils. When The Gospel of Barnabus came about it is dated to 70 years after Jesus left the earth and it is in the timeline according to some Christians to be insprired that it is not accepted. When they dug up Barnabus found him and the scrolls and the original is in the Vatican and they have a copy of it at the Library of Congress.

Which group of Protestants are correct and if the Catholics were misguided and they are the one's who have all 250,000 manuscripts in their possession and they were the first to be insprired they are rejected and Martin Luther came I believe 1200 years later so are all these people subject to the punishment of God even though according to the insprired timeline they were insprired many years after.

Now Jesus says the Comforter will come after him, he will reprove the world of sin, tell of many things to come, he will not speak but only what has been spoken to him and he will testify of him. And he will Guide you into truth. Now if the bible has contradictions how can it be truth. And what has the New Things or truth or new testifing has the Holy Ghost done for Christians in the past two thousand years.
And when is a Ghost ever defined as masculine.

Jesus says he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So how can he save all of humanity. If the bible is God's word and some of my Christian bretheren believe he is god why out of the 66 books in the Protestant bible there are only 7 chapters with Jesus's word in them.

Why is it so unclear even for the most learned scholars things just sometimes do not make sense and things can never be explained. Causing confusion because some Christians can not even agree on what the bible says so if they cannot agree how am I to accept it when one group can not accept another in terms of their interpretation

Where does Jesus say in his own words anything supporting the General Christian dogma ie. sin atonement, trinity, son of God, worlds saviour, and he will be resurrected, or depending on which church he is God.

I am sorry I have so many unexplained things and unanswered questions. I must apologize sometimes I may get carried away please do not look at any of my questions as being condecending or crass I am asking with the utmost sincerity to try and understand this conundrum. I just want us me, you and everyone in this forum to look at what it the bible says and take it in its entirety. I know there are things in the bible which support these dogmas but there are statements in it as well that contradict each other and I must accept all of God's words in order to be a true believer. I believe a believer believes in every word with truth and if I cannot then I have to seek the true knowledge. Allah says any book claiming to be from him would be totally free of all contradiciton. I believe God is All-Knowing , Wise, All Powerful, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, The Most Compassionate and Just. It is hard for me to accept that God would not give his creation a book with very clear guidance from Him in simple words that a simple man can understand and is totally free of all corruption and contradiction, and that he can safeguard it for all Eternity. Historically none of the bibles I have do this they are constantly changed or altered by men who may or may not be just men as Allah states they change the word of God for their own worldly gain. Again I apologize it is very upsetting that I can never understand this beautifully written book which does have very morally uplifting and teaches us all the basic morals this world so desperately needs. Maybe that is why Allah says the closest to you in your religion are the Christians. May you please forgive me if I said anything out of line and May Allah forgive me and realize if there is any errors in what I said realize it is from myself and shaiton and not Allah. Because God almighty only speaks the truth. That is 1 of his 99 most glorious names.

I wait patiently to hear from you if I do not respond tonight insha Allah because of religious obligations I will respond tomorrow Insha Allah. May God have mercy on us all

Hi MuJahid..I don't know wether I can answer all of your questions but I shall try to the best of my own understanding and from some study notes that I have..But first a bit more about the Bible..

Here goes..Understanding the Bible,

As you know, there are a vast amount of confusion in the minds of people about Christianity, A great deal of this comes from viewing the Bible as a collection of stories, Do's and Don't ect, and not as the organized planned word of God..Before we can understand it fully, we must examine it to see how God reveals His Wonderful plan of Salvation..

The relationship of the Christian to the Word of God.

1Peter 2:9-10 You are an elect race, A Royal priesthood, an Holy nation, a people for Gods own possession, that you may show forth the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

James 2:24 you see that by works you are Justified, and not by faith alone.

2 Timothy 2:15 Give Diligence to present yourself approved unto God, a work man that needs not be ashamed, Handling aright the word of Truth..

1Peter 3:15 Being ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason concerning the Hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear.

1Peter 4:16..But if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let Him Glorify God in His name..

Two Covenants

God made two major covenants with His people

With Abraham For all people from Abrahams seed
With Moses - for the Jews..

The New Testament is the Will of Jesus

It brings us to faith [ Galations 3:23 -26]

It is a better Covenant [ Hebrews 8:6-7 ]...

The Bible can be considered as having 3 ages, sometimes reffered to a Dispentions.

The ages may also be defined as follows

The Partichal - Through Gods Revelation to the " Fathers " of the People.
Lasting from Adam to mount Sinai Known as the star light period

The Mosiac --Through the Law Given to Moses
Lasting From mount Siniai to Calvary Known as the moon light period

Christian Through the New Testament
Lasting from Calvary to the second coming of Christ.Known as the Star light period..

The Christian period came into effect when Christ died..[ Col 2:14 ] i.e His will came operative and binding on all who believed in Him..

The Old Testament Remained for our Learning [ Romans 15:4 ]

When analyzing Scripture, we follow basic rules of interpertation

Who is speaking eg Matthew 8:29
To whom eg Mark 9:5
in what dispensation eg 1 Cor 7:6 .
From What time period eg Mat 5:38
for what Purpose eg 1 Cor 15:32..

God Spoke to the Fathers Genesis 12:1 , Alter animal sacrafices..

Law came by moses John 1:7

was school master Galations 3:24
was abolished Col 2:14
tabernacle--Passover- Sabbath

Grace and truth by Christ John 1:17
Gospel Romans 1:16
Lords supper.

Church Acts 2:47..

Ok now to try and answer some of your other questions..

Where does it say that Jesus is your personal saviour in the Scriptures, and is there a verse that says he will die for the sins of man and be crucified ?

I don't see a passage in Scripture where it is specifically stated that uses the phrase " Personal Savior " As Christains we except Him as our Lord and Saviour when we put Christ Jesus on In Baptism..

Isa 53 Tells us the He bore the sins of many, I believe all of Isa 53 is a prophecy reguarding Jesus suffering..

John 1:29 says The next day, he saw Jesus Coming and said " Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the World..

1Cor 15:3 For I delivered to you as of First importance what I also recieved That Christ died for our sins..And that He was buried and that He was raised the third day According to the Scriptures..

Mathew 20:19 And will hand him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify him..

Mathew 28 :5 The Angel said to the women Do not be afraid For I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified..

God Savior, Jesus saviour,

This would have to be a study on its own, but there are refferences of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit all being reffered to as God..

The Book dated after 96 A.D not inspired

That is something I am not aware of, there has been many disputes reguarding the inspiration of the Scriptures [ 66 books ] cannoned as the Bible, so when I answer your question it is my own personal belief that All 66 books [ Scriptures ] where inspired of God..I believe in Scripture Only..

Jesus as Saviour [ Messiah ] told from the begining to the end of Scripture, Gods plan for man revealed and evidence given of its fulfilment, God Revered, Sin rebuked, Chaos to perfection seen, A hope for each individual to be made right with God, the Father, The creator, the one God.

The writers from different, ages, cultures, back grounds, places, languages ect, give a complete account of harmony agreeing with eachother..

The Bible shows continuity and unity, The law and the entire OT, prepare for the coming of Christ [ Galations 3: 23-29 ]
The Gospels present Christ as the Son of God [ John 20: 30 -31 ] fulfilling the prophecies.

Acts of the Apostles show us how to accept Christ as Savior [Acts 2, 8,9 10 and 16 ]

The Epistles direct on how to live as a follower of Christ [ 2 Peter 1:5 -11]

Revelation indicates the promises of Christ and Gods judgment of the unfaithful and His enemies..

Hosea 6:6 Religeous rituals can help people understand God and nourish their relationship with him, that is why God instituted, circumcision and the sacrifical system in the OT, And baptism and the Lords supper in the NT. but A Religeous ritual is helpful only if its carried out with an attitude of love and obeidience to God, If a persons heart is far from God, ritual will become empty mockery, God didn't want the Israelites Rituals, He wanted their hearts.

Well I shall have to go for now I need a break sorry, I will try and write more later..Thankyou for your time..

Mujahid Mohammed;

May I make a suggestion ? - why don't you read the Bible; I think it rather unfair that you should expect others to do research that you yourself could do. OK. I understand if you have small significant points to address, but this is ridiculous.............