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The first shall be last; and the last first

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Mark 10:31 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first
Matt 19:30 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last [shall be] first.
Matt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Luke 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

What do the above mean?
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
michel said:
Mark 10:31 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first
Matt 19:30 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last [shall be] first.
Matt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Luke 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

What do the above mean?

Hi Michel, mark 10:31 Jesus explained that in the world to come, the values of this world will be reversed, Those who seek status and inportance here will have none in heaven, Those who are humble here will be great in heaven, those who have humbly served others are most qualified to be great in heaven..

Matthew 19 :30 Jesus turned the worlds values upside down, consider the most powerful or well known people in our world, how many got where they are by being Humble, self- effacing and gentle, but in the life to come, the last will be first. Don't forfiet eternal rewards for tempory benifits, be willing to make sacrifices now for greater rewards later, be willing to accept human disapproval knowing you have Gods approval.

I have taken these thoughts from the footnotes in my bible..

The other two verses are talking along the same lines..hope this helps.. :)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Thank you Deut; took me some finding

Jesus said: The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about the place of Life, and he will live. For many who are first shall become last and they shall become a single one.
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
I think it's one of the most beautiful passages in the Bible. To be reminded that the least among us can be the greatest... it just does my heart good.
 

Pah

Uber all member
I get a sense of equality and not position or rank. It is most apparent in the parable of workers wages and in Deut's reference
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
glasgowchick said:
Hi Michel, mark 10:31 Jesus explained that in the world to come, the values of this world will be reversed, Those who seek status and inportance here will have none in heaven, Those who are humble here will be great in heaven, those who have humbly served others are most qualified to be great in heaven..

Matthew 19 :30 Jesus turned the worlds values upside down, consider the most powerful or well known people in our world, how many got where they are by being Humble, self- effacing and gentle, but in the life to come, the last will be first. Don't forfiet eternal rewards for tempory benifits, be willing to make sacrifices now for greater rewards later, be willing to accept human disapproval knowing you have Gods approval.

I have taken these thoughts from the footnotes in my bible..

The other two verses are talking along the same lines..hope this helps.. :)
Thanks Jackie, that does help. Unfortunately we go onto another problem from there;
"Those who are humble here will be great in heaven" - I understand, but much of humility becomes vanity as soon as the realization of humility 'clicks in'.

It just seems like an endless 'loop' of no win.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
michel said:
Mark 10:31 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first
Matt 19:30 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last [shall be] first.
Matt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Luke 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

What do the above mean?

:) That is one reason why I converted from Christianity to Asatru. If there is one main difference between the two, it's that in Asatru, the first will be first, the greatest will be the greatest, the last will be last and the mediocre will be mediocre.
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
michel said:
Thanks Jackie, that does help. Unfortunately we go onto another problem from there;
"Those who are humble here will be great in heaven" - I understand, but much of humility becomes vanity as soon as the realization of humility 'clicks in'.

It just seems like an endless 'loop' of no win.

Hi Michel, your welcome, Im not sure if I know what your meaning by vanity ? so if Im off here on a roller coaster just give the brakes a pull ok.. :D

When you say vanity, did you mean that we could become " prideful or becoming concieted " ? For me I believe that if we serve others with a true humble heart, it becomes second nature, but if we are only being humble say for show, then I think we could become prideful as in "look at me look how humble I am.." You know just being that way for people to notice..Is this making any sense...I thought not :D God Bless
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
glasgowchick said:
Hi Michel, your welcome, Im not sure if I know what your meaning by vanity ? so if Im off here on a roller coaster just give the brakes a pull ok.. :D

When you say vanity, did you mean that we could become " prideful or becoming concieted " ? For me I believe that if we serve others with a true humble heart, it becomes second nature, but if we are only being humble say for show, then I think we could become prideful as in "look at me look how humble I am.." You know just being that way for people to notice..Is this making any sense...I thought not :D God Bless
OK this is mot an easy one, and I can do no better than to give you two or maybe three hypotheticals;

1. My Son comes back from Spain (he has been there 5 Months and 7 months before that in France) he is only 21 and yet has comported himself in a tremendous way. He has achieved, in his short life more than I have in my time.

I Think of him, and feel full of "My son is a tremendous guy"; the second I think that, I think hang on, you are proud. Why are you proud ? - is it because he is your son, and you love him ? - yes, I have to admit that because I care for him, the feelings of his accomplishments mean more to me; this is Pride - and not humility. If I was humble, I would not let the idea go through my mind that my being his fatheer, and having tried to do the best by him had any influence on his outcome.

2.I walk down the road, and see an elderly lady who wishes to cross the road, but is obviously nervous. I go, take her arm, and help her across.

I go on my way and suddenly feel a warm glow of "Hey, that was nice of me, good job there"

I see that self praise as being prideful and it has negated any possible good that could have come out of my having helped the old girl out.
 

Unedited

Active Member
glasgowchick said:
Hi Michel, mark 10:31 Jesus explained that in the world to come, the values of this world will be reversed, Those who seek status and inportance here will have none in heaven, Those who are humble here will be great in heaven, those who have humbly served others are most qualified to be great in heaven..

Matthew 19 :30 Jesus turned the worlds values upside down, consider the most powerful or well known people in our world, how many got where they are by being Humble, self- effacing and gentle, but in the life to come, the last will be first. Don't forfiet eternal rewards for tempory benifits, be willing to make sacrifices now for greater rewards later, be willing to accept human disapproval knowing you have Gods approval.
Agreed. Reading through Matt 20:16 though, I got the feeling that it was more about everyone being equal, getting the same reward of heaven so long as they accept Christianity into their hearts. Sort of, 'it doesn't matter if you lived your whole life a good Christian, or you only did so the last year of your life, you will get into heaven.'

'For many be called, but few chosen,' would refer to the many who are shown the ways of Christianity, and the few who are actually good Christians.

I'm open to being wrong on this though, especially since the only Bible I could find was in French.
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
michel said:
OK this is mot an easy one, and I can do no better than to give you two or maybe three hypotheticals;

1. My Son comes back from Spain (he has been there 5 Months and 7 months before that in France) he is only 21 and yet has comported himself in a tremendous way. He has achieved, in his short life more than I have in my time.

I Think of him, and feel full of "My son is a tremendous guy"; the second I think that, I think hang on, you are proud. Why are you proud ? - is it because he is your son, and you love him ? - yes, I have to admit that because I care for him, the feelings of his accomplishments mean more to me; this is Pride - and not humility. If I was humble, I would not let the idea go through my mind that my being his fatheer, and having tried to do the best by him had any influence on his outcome.

2.I walk down the road, and see an elderly lady who wishes to cross the road, but is obviously nervous. I go, take her arm, and help her across.

I go on my way and suddenly feel a warm glow of "Hey, that was nice of me, good job there"

I see that self praise as being prideful and it has negated any possible good that could have come out of my having helped the old girl out.

Michel this is so strange, I have spoken to my preacher about the exact same feelings, and trust me, you are not alone with these thoughts, I have three kids and I am very very proud of them, Does that mean Im a proudful person, I wouldn't say so..I have been blessed with three great kids, they are not perfect but they are obiediant [ most of the time ] they get good marks at school, My oldest is out working earning a living, he only drinks on special occations, he has had many certificates for " best manners " from when at school here and when we lived in America, he was awarded with an award for his service at work on helping people, [ He works in Asda ] maybe not the best Job but its a job that pays him a wage..

As for helping the wee women across the street and feeling Good about it, I would feel good about it too, good that I know she wasn't hit by a car, I feel good inside because I know God would be pleased with me and knowing I had pleased God by my actions...Michel there is nothing wrong with those feelings.

The problem arises when we do not give God a thought and thank him for such wonderful blessings [ our children ] Everything we have I believe comes from God, when we look at our kids and see what is becoming of them, then it is the time to say " Thankyou Jesus "..when we forget to do that, I think it is then we can become prideful and take all the credit, then we become boostful, looking down on others, seeing our kids better than anyone elses..Please don't be so hard on yourself..Im sure there is No-one more prouder than God, when he saw His son fulfill his plans for mankind...God was well pleased with His Son..You too have been well blessed to have such a wonderful son who has done well in His life...be happy and be proud of Him..Its ok Honest.. ;)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Thanks, Jackie; I am still not altogether happy with my interpretations, but I know I am not alone, which is a help.
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
Unedited said:
Agreed. Reading through Matt 20:16 though, I got the feeling that it was more about everyone being equal, getting the same reward of heaven so long as they accept Christianity into their hearts. Sort of, 'it doesn't matter if you lived your whole life a good Christian, or you only did so the last year of your life, you will get into heaven.'

'For many be called, but few chosen,' would refer to the many who are shown the ways of Christianity, and the few who are actually good Christians.

I'm open to being wrong on this though, especially since the only Bible I could find was in French.

Hi, une, you are correct, there are no favorites among Christians in Gods eyes,, we are all equal, If Jesus came back tonight, it would not matter if one had been a christian all of their life or just became a christian a couple of minutes before Jesus showed up..Point being we will be there as long as we have excepted Christ as our Lord and saviour... :)
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
michel said:
Thanks, Jackie; I am still not altogether happy with my interpretations, but I know I am not alone, which is a help.

Hi Michel, It has taken me a long time to except my feelings also, I don't know if this will explain anything any better, but here is an example ok.. About three years ago, I was going to the shopping centre, I was in a taxi at the time with my mother, as the guy turned the corner, I saw over on the other side laying across the road, he was in a position that if a car came from the other direction, it would have run right over the top of him..The driver continued to drive on, but I asked him to turn back and help that man, now that was my first thought, we phoned for an ambulance and got the guy help.. After all the excitment was over, I thought to myself [ Just like you ] That was good of me and felt pretty good inside..To an extent, probably in someone elses eyes my thoughts were very self served..I couldn't wait to tell the people I was studying with at the time all about my good deed..Now if this makes any sense at all, I told them with great excitement, not for their approval but wanted to here from them what God thought about my Good deed, I was looking for Gods approval, yet all my outward signs sounded like that I wanted praise from men over Gods..So in turn I felt really Good about my Good deed..

Another time, I was with my mum, We saw an old lady struggling to get out a taxi, we both went over to help her out, my mum was in front of me and honestly, I almost to knocked my mum out the way so I could help the lady, What did I think to myself then , " I felt so selfish " why ? it was like I wanted all the thanks from God instead of letting my mum get the approval..Now that was selfish..I realised what I just did and stepped back and let my mum help the lady..I wanted all Gods praise to myself...So there you go michel, you really aren't alone, we all think :bounce things that we soon regret... ;)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
" I fellt selfish" - oh how true. How many deeds are done to satisfy our own needs, rather than the needs of others - as the prime motivator ?


Does that negate the good deeds ? - I think it does.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
michel said:
Does that negate the good deeds ? - I think it does.

Good deeds for the sake of doing good deeds is our obligation and therefore should make us very happy. It is pride you feel when you do what is right and that is a good thing.
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
Is not another interpretation of this passage valid? Does it not teach order?

Let's say a teacher offers a bag of candy. The kids all want it, so they push each other aside to try
and be the first in line for the candy. However, one child waits patiently at the rear of the line,
and is dissappointed that he was not the first.

Is this also stating that God will not tolerate greediness, and disrespect of others? Just a crappy thought. But hence the "Meek shall inherit the earth."

 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
michel said:
Mark 10:31 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first
Matt 19:30 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last [shall be] first.
Matt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Luke 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

What do the above mean?
In the restaraunt business, this would be known as FILO (first in, last out), this is not good when we are talking about food, and the FIFO(first in, first out) is preferred by most managers. However, that is not what we are talking about here, now is it?
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Renaldo said:
But hence the "Meek shall inherit the earth."

There is literally no evidence to support this. History and Experience show that it is the strong that have inherited the earth.
 
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