God Against Humanity

Jayhawker Soule · Sep 1, 2005

The Tower of Babel

JPS - Genesis 11

And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech.
And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
And they said one to another: 'Come, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly.' And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.
And they said: 'Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, with its top in heaven, and let us make us a name; lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.'
And HaShem came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And HaShem said: 'Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do; and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.
Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.'
So HaShem scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth; and they left off to build the city.
Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because HaShem did there confound the language of all the earth; and from thence did HaShem scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

The Alter Commentary notes ...

The story of the Tower of Babel transforms the Mesopotamian ziggutat, built with bricks (in constract to Canaanite stone sructures) and one of the wonders of ancient technology, into monotheistic fable. Although there is a long exegetical tradition that imagines the building of the Tower as an attempt to scale the heights of heaven, the text does not really suggest that. "Its top is in heaven" is a hyperbole found in Mesopotamian inscriptions for celebrating high towers, and to make or leave a "name" or oneself by erecting a lasting monument is a recurrent notion in ancient Hebrew culture. The polemical thrust of the story is against urbanism and the overweening confidence of humanity in the feats of technology. This polemic, in turn, is lined up with the stories of the tree of life and the Nephilim in which mankind is seen aspiring to transcend the limits of its creaturely condition. As in those earlier moments, one glimpses here the vestiges of a mythological background in which God addresses an unspecified celestial entourage in the first-person plural as He considers how to respond to man's presumption.

This is a story, not of retribution, but of preemption - not of an angry and vengeful God slaughtering a sinful humanity at its worst, but of a worried and scheming God undermining a united humanity at its best. "Look!" says YHWH, "Here is humanity working together toward a common goal. We must destoy the community of man. Otherwise, nothing is beyond them."

Perhaps science has reestablished a common tongue. If so, it is too soon to tell whether or not YHWH's fears were warranted, but I hope so.

Green Gaia · Sep 1, 2005

Ok, you've done it. I'm buying the Alter Commentary on the Torah next time I see it.

fromthe heart · Sep 1, 2005

I don't think they were just looking for a community to dwell in they wanted to build something up high enough to become gods for themselves so God just knocked them down a peg or two. They had a bad mind set in what they were attempting to do so they deserved the retrabution they received...and look what has happened the people are all over the world now with differing opinions and ideas and there is diversity in life...the things that make us different make us more the same.

Jayhawker Soule · Sep 2, 2005

fromthe heart said:
I don't think they were just looking for a community to dwell in they wanted to build something up high enough to become gods for themselves ...

That is, indeed, the common explanation. It is not, however, what the text says, but, rather, a later rationalization. The text speaks of a God fearful of a humanity becoming aware of its potential.

Ori · Sep 2, 2005

Deut. 32.8 said:
That is, indeed, the common explanation. It is not, however, what the text says, but, rather, a later rationalization. The text speaks of a God fearful of a humanity becoming aware of its potential.

This is actually a very interesting topic, I guess the question now is why would God fear a united race ?

JerryL · Sep 2, 2005

You actually see the same thing in the sotry of Eden. God does punish the transgression (with pain in child-bearing for example (makes since if the transgression is sentience, considering it's the big heads that hurt)), but that's not the cited reason for kicking them out of Eden:

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."" - Gen 3:22

Again, fear of what man might do

Jayhawker Soule · Sep 2, 2005

Perhaps the more interesting question flows from the recognition of the Torah as a very human effort by very human authors - a rural/semi-nomadic people with the Tigres/Euphrates civilization to its North and the Egyptian civilization to its south.

What might their motivation and implied message have been?

Jayhawker Soule · Sep 2, 2005

An aside:

Sometimes when looking at the Torah, it's instructive to compare specific verses with the Targumim - early Aramaic translations - since one might expect these translations to reflect a good understanding of the texts from which the translations were made. I went to copy the appropriate verses only to find that the site is down. The online Targumim are hosted by the Tulane University.

Sometimes the faint shadow of disaster shows up in unexpected ways.

Ori · Sep 2, 2005

Deut. 32.8 said:
What might their motivation and implied message have been?

I think with regards to the tower of Babel, it was an attempt to promote tolerence amongst the different tribes and races.

Yerda · Sep 3, 2005

Deut. 32.8 said:
Perhaps the more interesting question flows from the recognition of the Torah as a very human effort by very human authors - a rural/semi-nomadic people with the Tigres/Euphrates civilization to its North and the Egyptian civilization to its south.

What might their motivation and implied message have been?

I don't know, but I'm interested.

Ex Machina · Sep 8, 2005

JerryL said:
You actually see the same thing in the sotry of Eden. God does punish the transgression (with pain in child-bearing for example (makes since if the transgression is sentience, considering it's the big heads that hurt)), but that's not the cited reason for kicking them out of Eden:
"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."" - Gen 3:22

Again, fear of what man might do

This is definately something I've thought about before, and it lends itself to interesting conclutions. God prevents man from reaching his full potential, but what would that potential be? God seem concurned that man would be more like him, but what would this lend iself to? After all man was 'created in his image'.

The implied conclution is definately interesting, does the earthly man have the potential to become a divine being like the God who created him? If so then a question remains, what is God's motive for restricting such power? Is it because man is inherently imprfect? But if so, then why did he not create man as an equal to himself? Does he not have such power, or does he simply wish to reain absolute control for his own sake?

In any case, how could God be perfect either way? Had he the power to, in being perfect he surely would have created man as a being of equal perfection. If he doesn't have such power, or has such ego, the how could he be perfect and what would this mean for man?

chlotilde · Sep 8, 2005

orichalcum said:
This is actually a very interesting topic, I guess the question now is why would God fear a united race ?

If you read fear into the statement...It might not be fear of, but rather fear for.

The last line of the OP is a good one. Is this another Chicken Little story (the sky is falling!) or will our technological advances actually be what destroys us by rendering the earth uninhabitable for man(global warming/coming ice age) ?

CMIYC · Sep 8, 2005

Ex Machina said:
This is definately something I've thought about before, and it lends itself to interesting conclutions. God prevents man from reaching his full potential, but what would that potential be? God seem concurned that man would be more like him, but what would this lend iself to? After all man was 'created in his image'.

Would a blind person have the same understanding of word image as you and I do, or would the perception of image change? Just curious..

michel · Sep 8, 2005

Ex Machina said:
This is definately something I've thought about before, and it lends itself to interesting conclutions. God prevents man from reaching his full potential, but what would that potential be? God seem concurned that man would be more like him, but what would this lend iself to? After all man was 'created in his image'.

The implied conclution is definately interesting, does the earthly man have the potential to become a divine being like the God who created him? If so then a question remains, what is God's motive for restricting such power? Is it because man is inherently imprfect? But if so, then why did he not create man as an equal to himself? Does he not have such power, or does he simply wish to reain absolute control for his own sake?

In any case, how could God be perfect either way? Had he the power to, in being perfect he surely would have created man as a being of equal perfection. If he doesn't have such power, or has such ego, the how could he be perfect and what would this mean for man?

your "Is it because man is inherently imprfect? But if so, then why did he not create man as an equal to himself? Does he not have such power, or does he simply wish to reain absolute control for his own sake?"

Man is inherently imperfect; the question you ask about why God didn't make man equal to himself has an obvious answer (for me) - in that, if we were perfect, there would be no point in our living, to overcome temptation.

I can't understand why God would wish to retain power for himself, but that brings into question the reason for his having created us in the first place.

God Against Humanity

Jayhawker Soule

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Green Gaia

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fromthe heart

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