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Where is God during disasters?

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JerryL

Well-Known Member
AV1611 said:
Psalm 83:15-18 --- what's my grade?
An F. The people hit by Katrina were not "conspiring against God's people". In point of fact, most were Chrsitian.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
"I don't know whether or not God exists, but I don't deny the possibility (on the other hand, I do deny that any God that has any personal interest in us as individuals exists -- you simply have to look around at the horrors of the world to know that that can't be true)."
-Robert J. Sawyer
 

Fire Empire

Member
Yes, and if indeed such an all-powerful God existed, s/he would not be worthy of our love or worship any more than a child should love it's parent who stood by idle as it was tortured and then killed--even if the parent claims "it's for your own good darling".
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Fire Empire said:
Yes, and if indeed such an all-powerful God existed, s/he would not be worthy of our love or worship any more than a child should love it's parent who stood by idle as it was tortured and then killed--even if the parent claims "it's for your own good darling".

The gods don't need our love. They are not needy. Of course, you are referring to a god I don't know, so *steps back*.
 

blueman

God's Warrior
JerryL said:
Hrm. Let's go look...

The reason God created / allowed Hurricane Katrina is _________

Please fill in the blank.
Why didn't you bold the remaining comments I made in that response: "I think we as a society would admit that we have a tendency to get complacent and in many instances, downright arrogant about the way we live and how our lifestyle may be in contrast with what God's will is for our lives. Out of all of this tragedy may come good if people reach a spiritual awakening and recognize the One who has dominion over heaven and earth loves them and wants to direct their lives in a way that they have never experienced before".

Hurricane's and other natural disasters are a part of nature and with this being hurricane season, it should not shock anyone that this occured. The devastation and tragedy it has caused is eye opening, but although God was'nt the cause, He allowed it to happen. I believe my answer in my initial response as to the reasons why He allows such tragedies to occur should not be easily overlooked. :)
 

mr.guy

crapsack
blueman said:
Hurricane's and other natural disasters are a part of nature and with this being hurricane season, it should not shock anyone that this occured. The devastation and tragedy it has caused is eye opening, but although God was'nt the cause, He allowed it to happen. I believe my answer in my initial response as to the reasons why He allows such tragedies to occur should not be easily overlooked. :)

"i learned to respect the dieties, but never to rely on them" -Musashi
 

Fire Empire

Member
Darkdale said:
The gods don't need our love. They are not needy.
We never said that they did. But it seems to us that the Christian god at least wants our love (part of the whole reason for "free will"), as most parents want their childrens love even if they don't "need" it. Our point is that a god (any god) that has the ability to keep humans from suffering and does nothing to help (in the case of Katrina, for instance) should not be bothered with.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
Why didn't you bold the remaining comments I made in that response: "I think we as a society would admit that we have a tendency to get complacent and in many instances, downright arrogant about the way we live and how our lifestyle may be in contrast with what God's will is for our lives. Out of all of this tragedy may come good if people reach a spiritual awakening and recognize the One who has dominion over heaven and earth loves them and wants to direct their lives in a way that they have never experienced before". [/qoute] Because none of it answered my question, which you still haven't answered. You've attempted to imply a bunch, but have been unwilling to assert something.

That said, I did respond to this sentement with the corrilary about people turning away from God because of disaster and, of course, the dead who no longer have options.

Hurricane's and other natural disasters are a part of nature and with this being hurricane season, it should not shock anyone that this occured. The devastation and tragedy it has caused is eye opening, but although God was'nt the cause, He allowed it to happen. I believe my answer in my initial response as to the reasons why He allows such tragedies to occur should not be easily overlooked.
Which was what? You've never given a why he created a universe with disasters. You've asserted "some good can come from them". Is that your claim? God created/allows disaster so that some good can come along with all the bad?

The reason God created / allowed Hurricane Katrina is _________

Please fill in the blank.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Fire Empire said:
Our point is that a god (any god) that has the ability to keep humans from suffering and does nothing to help (in the case of Katrina, for instance) should not be bothered with.

Why is that?
 

Fire Empire

Member
blueman said:
Out of all of this tragedy may come good if people reach a spiritual awakening and recognize the One who has dominion over heaven and earth loves them and wants to direct their lives in a way that they have never experienced before".
Good reached through evil means really isn't good at all. Can any future goodness be enough of a reward to humankind for all the horrors that we have been through? How many people do you suppose need to reach a spiritual awakening to justify the millions of crimes against humanity that have occured through out the ages while God sat by and watched? Katrina is just another disaster on a very long list of "things that are not good for people". If you want to say that God has some kind of payment scale where he will reward those of us left standing with love and kindness, we don't think he will have enough goodness currency to cover the price.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
JerryL said:
An F. The people hit by Katrina were not "conspiring against God's people". In point of fact, most were Chrsitian.
Oh they were? I didn't know that. You must know them, then?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Fire Empire said:
Yes, and if indeed such an all-powerful God existed, s/he would not be worthy of our love or worship any more than a child should love it's parent who stood by idle as it was tortured and then killed--even if the parent claims "it's for your own good darling".
1 John 4:9 = WE LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US. (Note 'Him', btw).
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
JerryL said:
Which was what? You've never given a why he created a universe with disasters. You've asserted "some good can come from them". Is that your claim? God created/allows disaster so that some good can come along with all the bad?
He didn't create a universe with disasters, or believe me, there'd be much, much more.

The reason God created / allowed Hurricane Katrina is _________

Please fill in the blank.
How many times you want that answered? Your blanket reply Most of them were Christians was a cheap shot based on zero evidence.

And even if it was true, then this verse would apply:

1 Peter 4:17 = FOR THE TIME IS COME THAT JUDGEMENT BUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: AND IF IT FIRST BEGIN AT US, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
[PART QUOTE=JerryL] .............."Is that your claim? God created/allows disaster so that some good can come along with all the bad
The reason God created / allowed Hurricane Katrina is _________

Please fill in the blank.".....................[/PART QUOTE]

Perhaps God 'allows' disasters to bring out the best in others; I don't know if you have noticed, but many people gather around at these times to lend a hand, help, whatever........The worst events make people do good deeds - some may well do things (as in helping) that they would never have thought of before. Personally, I don't believe God creates disasters; man does by his incompetant attitude towards this wonderful planet we were given.

The reason God created / allowed Hurricane Katrina is _________I don't believe God creates disasters; man does by his incompetant attitude towards this wonderful planet we were given. He does not 'allow' or 'stop' disasters, because they are a part of nature.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
michel said:
Perhaps God 'allows' disasters to bring out the best in others; ...
An omniscient and omnipotent God does not 'allow' - he creates/orchestrates. He defines and implements the laws of nature knowing and intending each and every consequence in the most minute detail. Every shattered building slamming into every shattered child is every bit as much a part of his plan' as is yesterday's Big Bang or tomorrow's sunset.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Deut. 32.8 said:
An omniscient and omnipotent God does not 'allow' - he creates/orchestrates. He defines and implements the laws of nature knowing and intending each and every consequence in the most minute detail. Every shattered building slamming into every shattered child is every bit as much a part of his plan' as is yesterday's Big Bang or tomorrow's sunset.

That is your interpretation/View, Deut, which I respect; it is, however not my understanding of God - and we know that we are at opposite poles on this; I will never persuade you (not that I would even try - what you believe in is your concern, not mine), neither do I expect you to succeed in 'converting' you. I have spent too many years of my life playing your role (that of the skeptic - it really does not suit me; I am far happier with my beliefs than I was without them).
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
michel said:
That is your interpretation/View, Deut, which I respect; it is, however not my understanding of God - and we know that we are at opposite poles on this; ...
It has nothing to do with interpretation and everything to do with the logical consequences of omniscience and omnipotence.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
michel said:
I don't believe God creates disasters; man does by his incompetant attitude towards this wonderful planet we were given. He does not 'allow' or 'stop' disasters, because they are a part of nature.
Michel, what do you do with these verses?

Genesis 7:12 = AND THE RAIN WAS UPON THE EARTH FORTY DAYS AND FORTY NIGHTS.

Genesis 19:24 = THEN THE LORD RAINED UPON SODOM AND GOMORRAH BRIMSTONE AND FIRE FROM THE LORD OUT OF HEAVEN;

Jonah 4:8 = AND IT CAME TO PASS, WHEN THE SUN DID ARISE, THAT GOD DID PREPARE A VEHEMENT EAST WIND;

Not to mention the 10 Plagues of Egypt and the events recorded in Revelation.
 
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