GOD centered discussions...

Mr_Spinkles said:

I fail to see the purpose of any test, considering an omnipotent being would know the results ahead of time.

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Yes, God's powerful enough to know the end results. He also has the power to prevent Himself from knowing it.

Your observation is correct if you fail to see the purpose of God to test your faith since He knows the outcome. That's the thing, He doesn't want to know the outcome. It would be useless for Him to test you if He already knows what will happen. He tests your faith to see if you really love Him enough no matter what the price. If He puts you in these types of positions, and eventually you end up blaming Him, then you lack faith in Him. Be strong in the faith and acknowledge the fact that He's testing you, and that no matter what comes your way, you will first help yourself so that He can help you.

Maybe I can go on with this, but I'll stop right now(kinda tired).

Please see the Does God Test Your Faith Thread and stay on topic here.

Well, to get back on topic, I'd have to say that I don't have the 'problem' of all of my conversations turning to god.

I don't see how everything could be related back to god...maybe we can make a game of this. Pick something random, like an umbrella, and outline your train of thought which would make you conclude at god...here goes--

Ok, so umbrellas sometimes catch wind...one could get blown so much that it could lift you up off your feet...it could lift you so high that you fly up to the sky, hangliding style (strong umbrella!)...god lives in the sky...there we have it!

Umbrellas shelter you. So does God (supposedly). Ta da!

LittleNipper said:

What I need is transportation, what I don't need is a lemon. GOD has supplied all my needs and has given me a wonderful mechanic too. Why walk in blindness when GOD will provide light for EVERYTHING...

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Should we assume God has abandoned all of those who do not have their needs met.

LittleNipper said:

As a Christian, it seems proper that any and all conversations and discussions of any real importance will eventually come around to a discussion or an inclusion of GOD. Often I to seem find that even minor topics will evolve into a discussion of GOD in one way or another. I certainly would not look at buying a house or a car or hiring a contractor without considering GOD or enlisting HIS help.
I remember once in junior high a fellow student once said that it didn't matter if we spoke of science, history, the weather, sports, television, music, radio, war, peace, crime, gym class-------eventually GOD always seemed to become THE topic.

I believe for real Christians that this is pretty much a fact... I guess I'm amused when someone gets annoyed that the topic has "strayed". The fact is it has arrived and not strayed at all. At least that is my conclusion.

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I orginally posted this over in the "SCIENCE vs RELIGION debate forum. The reason being that I felt and feel that one cannot place a box around a topic and say, "Well the topic is such'n such and we must stick to the subject or else." I find that a person's education, religious upbringing (or lack of it), view of history, view of authoritative opinion, theory, etc..., effects a person's perspective and his "World View." I see that even though the starting point was here the road may lead over there. When the overseers interrupt the conversation to say the topic is being ignored, the fact is the very ROOT of the logic is being discussed. For a true Christian, GOD is a personal friend. For a person who ignores GOD or hates the idea of GOD, he has to substitute
government or authority or scientific studies that help even him cope with finding a place of belonging....

I like my freedom to express why, how, and when I feel and think the way I do. Quite frankly, I cannot do that without expressing what GOD has to do with everything that matters and then some... I feel very sorry for those who simply don't get it-------they are missing so much.

LittleNipper said:

I like my freedom to express why, how, and when I feel and think the way I do. Quite frankly, I cannot do that without expressing what GOD has to do with everything that matters and then some... I feel very sorry for those who simply don't get it-------they are missing so much.

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I'm glad you find fulfillment in your life, however do not feel sorry for others or judge what brings them peace and fulfillment just because they don't see things the way you do. Because that same logic can be turned around on you and I could say, "Gee, I feel so sorry for all those people who believe in some deity up the in sky that demands they worship it, or they will be killed. What a fearful life these people must lead!" Don't judge what you don't understand.

So please, continue to express your feelings and thoughts in whatever manner you feel it right for you, but please try to remember to respect others' modes of expression as well.

GOD doesn't DEMAND anything. In order to be able to commune with HIM and be able to exist in HIS perfect eternal presence, we HAVE to be perfect and without sin. This is HIS very nature. It is impossible for things to be any different. Only Jesus Christ (who in fact is GOD) can pay the penality for sin and cover those who come to Him. If we don't accept HIM, HE cannot perfect us through Him. We will not become glorified at judgement.

So you claim that god created all things. If you are honest would to admit that this god character created evil also.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as evil....... only the absence of good.

Peace,
Scott

iwilliam said:

So you claim that god created all things. If you are honest would to admit that this god character created evil also.

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God created an environment that could sustain evil, nothing more. Lucifer is the person who introduced evil into the environment. You can say that He is indirectly responsible for evil, but if I have a kid who grows up to be a criminal, I'm not going to jail for bringing him into the world. He can make his own decisions, as can we. God saw evil coming and only allowed it to exist. He also used it to His and our advantage, so it can be argued that good will come out of all evil, making evil a moot point (a means to an end).

dan said:

God created an environment that could sustain evil, nothing more. Lucifer is the person who introduced evil into the environment. You can say that He is indirectly responsible for evil, but if I have a kid who grows up to be a criminal, I'm not going to jail for bringing him into the world. He can make his own decisions, as can we. God saw evil coming and only allowed it to exist. He also used it to His and our advantage, so it can be argued that good will come out of all evil, making evil a moot point (a means to an end).

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Good call.

if I have a kid who grows up to be a criminal, I'm not going to jail for bringing him into the world.

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Yes, but that is because you are not omniscient--your power is limited.

God saw evil coming and only allowed it to exist.

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Why? If you saw an oncoming car, would you allow it to hit your child?

He also used it to His and our advantage, so it can be argued that good will come out of all evil, making evil a moot point (a means to an end).

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If God is omniscient, there is no such thing as "a means to an end". The means to any end, for God, would be snapping His fingers and making it happen.

LittleNipper said:

GOD doesn't DEMAND anything. In order to be able to commune with HIM and be able to exist in HIS perfect eternal presence, we HAVE to be perfect and without sin.

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Not very demanding at all then.

truthseekingsoul said:

Not very demanding at all then.

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God centered discussions are always going to happen on a religious forum.

But it is not as demanding as you imagine when the reward is understood.

To know the Love of Christ.

I have experienced this. It is a process that the modern Christian Church doesn't use although it is written up in the Bible.
I could explain the physiology because it can be done but more interesting is the process and what it achieves.
All human activity is hatched in the mind. This realm of the mind has to be detached from.

In one initiation The mind of Christ is shown to an individual who then proceeds to learn how to talk out of this renewed mind being totally transformed by it as the coherence develops. Finally a gentle pure nature is achieved and God will fill the person with amazing power and Knowledge of God.

I thought the reward was sharing ideas and learning about other religions in the process....

I personally don't see christ as the goal of my life.... but hey I'm not a christian so I guess thats ok

anyway, the point is that to have a discussion not a preaching/proselytize session.
certenly that is possible isn't it?

wa:do

Allan said:

God centered discussions are always going to happen on a religious forum.

But it is not as demanding as you imagine when the reward is understood.

To know the Love of Christ.

I have experienced this. It is a process that the modern Christian Church doesn't use although it is written up in the Bible.
I could explain the physiology because it can be done but more interesting is the process and what it achieves.
All human activity is hatched in the mind. This realm of the mind has to be detached from.

In one initiation The mind of Christ is shown to an individual who then proceeds to learn how to talk out of this renewed mind being totally transformed by it as the coherence develops. Finally a gentle pure nature is achieved and God will fill the person with amazing power and Knowledge of God.

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Yes, I see what you are saying. Some call this operating from the Center of your being. It could be called being in touch with your Christ self or connected to the Divine within.

Lightkeeper said:

Yes, I see what you are saying. Some call this operating from the Center of your being. It could be called being in touch with your Christ self or connected to the Divine within.

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My initiation was in 1977 and for various reasons and although the initation was profound and told me everything I needed to know I was still as "dumb as they come" because then I immediately turned to the outside world to find answers. It wasn't until 1990 after some separation that I experienced the new nature and understood what the Bible was saying to another level.

At this point in time 2004 it has reached a new simpleness mentally through understanding what needs to be got past for others, where the barrier is to believing, but I need to take action, take the leap and stay there.

Although my own human mind cannot comprehend or want anything but to satisfy by protecting selfbelief and my own life and couldn't imagine living for ever or want to,
I am able to believe rationaly and understand immortality is the reward for all those who are partakers of the Divine Nature with its own Mind.

I have to be totally in that new nature and give up my own life entirely.

painted wolf said:

I thought the reward was sharing ideas and learning about other religions in the process....

I personally don't see christ as the goal of my life.... but hey I'm not a christian so I guess thats ok

anyway, the point is that to have a discussion not a preaching/proselytize session.
certenly that is possible isn't it?

wa:do

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If you are making a comment about what I have written then I am obliged to reply. I am not offended or set out to offend.

I am a mechanical engineer and have a technical mind set.
I see a certain mind behind all human endeavour that explains the conflict we all see and cannot deny.
In my mostly terse way of explaining things I may have come across as preaching but I am trying to describe a process much the same as tuning a machine to get better efficiency and profit.I see a simple process, that christianity seems to ignore, and with out all the apparent whackyness.

Even trying to improve the operation of a machine has some dangers because people get offended for all sorts of reasons and it can all become personal.

This whole idea of what I am relating is about delving into the operation of the mind and effecting some changes. This is a rather tender area obviously and because of a little experience I can offer this as a kind of starter and what to head for.

In almost 30 years of experimenting on me, observing life, reading and effecting change and coming back safely I am offering a good alternative.

If some of the language I use is tarnished by preconceptions that is unfortunate but I had to put terms and words to something I experienced in the mind that had none. It just happened that all my personal supernatural experience is described and a process is laid out in the Bible and is exactly what I experienced without any prior knowledge of the Bible or thankfully any ingrained Church teaching. To me the Bible is true as much as it is understood but the definitions are well described and cannot be bettered.

The people who use the similar language have learnt it through a culture and have created a lot of misconceptions. At least all the people who use the
language usually are all together in their religions.

Allan said:

My initiation was in 1977 and for various reasons and although the initation was profound and told me everything I needed to know I was still as "dumb as they come" because then I immediately turned to the outside world to find answers. It wasn't until 1990 after some separation that I experienced the new nature and understood what the Bible was saying to another level.

At this point in time 2004 it has reached a new simpleness mentally through understanding what needs to be got past for others, where the barrier is to believing, but I need to take action, take the leap and stay there.

Although my own human mind cannot comprehend or want anything but to satisfy by protecting selfbelief and my own life and couldn't imagine living for ever or want to,
I am able to believe rationaly and understand immortality is the reward for all those who are partakers of the Divine Nature with its own Mind.

I have to be totally in that new nature and give up my own life entirely.

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I hope I understand completely what you are saying. I don't believe a person can be in this state constantly, or constantly in touch with Divine Nature. I remember reading about Saint Francis of Assissi. As mystical as he was he was still struggling with his humanness. I think the humanness and the Divine compliment each other. You need both. The Divine couldn't dwell in you if your weren't human. Those aspects of yourself learn from each other. I have heard it said that God wants to become human. Don't some humans want to be Divine? There is a balance there. One can't exist without the other. You talk about immortality. What we find in ourselves is the Eternal. The Eternal can't be destroyed.