Where is God during disasters?

Feathers in Hair · Sep 4, 2005

Oh, no! I'm sorry if I offended! I just meant to me it doesn't matter about such things, not that you don't matter! You really do!

JerryL · Sep 4, 2005

Av said:
Katz, it's harder to disprove God than it is to prove Him, though.

Is this a degrees of infinity discussion? At present, it appears impossible to prove God is real because it's untrue.

Of course, if it were true, it might be possible.

Either way, a disproof is always impossible shy of internal error.

That's pretty remarkable, seeing as you know relatively little about my other beliefs.

I'm a pretty remarkable kind of guy.

I can't give you my faith, Jerry. If I could, I would. Believe me, there are a myriad of topics on which I am willing to debate till Hell freezes over. This just isn't one of them. I would appreciate your simply recognizing that I'm not interested in further discussion about the existence of God. If I truly believed you had support for your own lack of belief, I'd at least stick around to see what you have to say, but I don't.

I don't care about your beliefs. I care about your claims.

For example, you've claimed that there's no point debating this because your claim is unprovable (in a couple posts).
You then assert that al things are unprovable (post 147).
You now tell me that you debate a bunch (post 151)

This means that you do debate unprovable things (per post 151 and 147), making that an invalid reason for not debating.

Of course, it takes two to tango. You are welcome to stop posting on the subject. You were welcome to never posit on the subject in the first place (I've not looked at how you came into this sub-topic, so I don't want to assign levels of culpability ad hoc)

Discuss this topic or don't... but don't attempt to dictate to me whether I should, and don't make statements assuming I won't respond.

michel · Sep 4, 2005

JerryL said:
Is this a degrees of infinity discussion? At present, it appears impossible to prove God is real because it's untrue.

1 Corinthians 15:3-8 = FOR I DELIVERED UNTO YOU FIRST OF ALL THAT WHICH I ALSO RECEIVED, HOW THAT CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES; AND THAT HE WAS BURIED, AND THAT HE AROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES: AND THAT HE WAS SEEN OF CEPHAS, THEN OF THE TWELVE: AFTER THAT, HE WAS SEEN OF ABOVE FIVE HUNDRED BRETHREN AT ONCE; OF WHOM THE GREATER PART REMAIN UNTO THIS PRESENT, BUT SOME ARE FALLEN ASLEEP. AFTER THAT HE WAS SEEN OF JAMES; THEN ALL OF THE APOSTLES. AND LAST OF ALL HE WAS SEEN OF ME ALSO, AS ONE BORN OUT OF DUE TIME.

Now, with so many eyewitnesses, how do you explain away the fact that God doesn't exist?

JerryL · Sep 4, 2005

Now, with so many eyewitnesses, how do you explain away the fact that God doesn't exist?

Book of Jerry, Act 12:

"For I woke up and discoverd I was back in ancient Messopotamia, and 50,000 people saw me there".

Obviously, since I have more witnesses, it's even more true that I went back in time.

Now, if you have scrolls writeen by these 500+ people attesting to the event individually... then you've got a case.

michel · Sep 4, 2005

JerryL said:
Book of Jerry, Act 12:

"For I woke up and discoverd I was back in ancient Messopotamia, and 50,000 people saw me there".

Obviously, since I have more witnesses, it's even more true that I went back in time.

Now, if you have scrolls writeen by these 500+ people attesting to the event individually... then you've got a case.

Would ONE be enough to convict?

Jaymes · Sep 4, 2005

-mod-

Let's get back on topic, guys. If you want to discuss the validity of the Bible or other texts there are other topics for that.

-mod-

Katzpur · Sep 4, 2005

JerryL said:
I don't care about your beliefs. I care about your claims.

For example, you've claimed that there's no point debating this because your claim is unprovable (in a couple posts).
You then assert that al things are unprovable (post 147).
You now tell me that you debate a bunch (post 151)

This means that you do debate unprovable things (per post 151 and 147), making that an invalid reason for not debating.

Jerry,

I just want to clarify a couple of things before I leave this thread once and for all...

When I said that all things are unprovable, I was referring specifically to the subject of God's existence. I probably should not have not answered the question (Where is God during disasters?) at all. Catch me on another thread and you may find that I am quite persistent in arguing my point of view. Bull-headed might be a better word. I just don't like to debate when I feel like the arguments are circular.

Discuss this topic or don't... but don't attempt to dictate to me whether I should, and don't make statements assuming I won't respond.

I could care less whether you debate this topic, Jerry. Have a good time, okay?

Kathryn

michel · Sep 5, 2005

Katzpur said:
I could care less whether you debate this topic, Jerry. Have a good time, okay?

I started a new thread on this, Katz.

Ardhanariswar · Sep 6, 2005

I dont understand how people can create God, then ask where He was during the disaster. I dont know how people can just mandate what God does or not.

I personally would not take any one's word. If God believes or does something, Id rather hear it from God himself than from someone else who supposedly *thinks* and *says* what God *thinks* and *says*.

JerryL · Sep 6, 2005

I personally would not take any one's word. If God believes or does something, Id rather hear it from God himself than from someone else who supposedly *thinks* and *says* what God *thinks* and *says*.

Me too. Unfortunately, I've no evidence to support the claim that God himself ever said anything.

Jayhawker Soule · Sep 6, 2005

AV1611 said:
1 Corinthians 15:3-8 = FOR I DELIVERED UNTO YOU FIRST OF ALL THAT WHICH I ALSO RECEIVED, HOW THAT CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES; AND THAT HE WAS BURIED, AND THAT HE AROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES: AND THAT HE WAS SEEN OF CEPHAS, THEN OF THE TWELVE: AFTER THAT, HE WAS SEEN OF ABOVE FIVE HUNDRED BRETHREN AT ONCE; OF WHOM THE GREATER PART REMAIN UNTO THIS PRESENT, BUT SOME ARE FALLEN ASLEEP. AFTER THAT HE WAS SEEN OF JAMES; THEN ALL OF THE APOSTLES. AND LAST OF ALL HE WAS SEEN OF ME ALSO, AS ONE BORN OUT OF DUE TIME.

Shouted or not, it reads very much like delusional drivel. History is peppered with absurd supernatural claims. Why should anyone believe Paul?

Malus 12:9 · Sep 6, 2005

Gerani1248 said:
I dont understand how people can create God, then ask where He was during the disaster. I dont know how people can just mandate what God does or not.

Perhaps for the purpose to explain their unprovable God.

michel · Sep 6, 2005

Gerani1248 said:
I dont understand how people can create God, then ask where He was during the disaster. I dont know how people can just mandate what God does or not.

I personally would not take any one's word. If God believes or does something, Id rather hear it from God himself than from someone else who supposedly *thinks* and *says* what God *thinks* and *says*.

I understand the way you think, but I thought I would make a couple of small points.
According to us (Christrians) and many others
1. People did not create God; God created people...........

2."I dont know how people can just mandate what God does or not"....I didn't think anyone did; I certainly don't.

glasgowchick · Sep 6, 2005

EnhancedSpirit said:
Place your mouse on the X below and drag to the O.

XEven though you can't see Him, GOD is there!O

Beautiful as always

JerryL · Sep 6, 2005

michel said:
I understand the way you think, but I thought I would make a couple of small points.
According to us (Christrians) and many others
1. People did not create God; God created people...........

2."I dont know how people can just mandate what God does or not"....I didn't think anyone did; I certainly don't.

1. LOL So some people created a God who'se properties include "not created by people"

2. Some can mandate God, though I don't think anyone on this thread has tried to: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

michel · Sep 6, 2005

Deut. 32.8 said:
Shouted or not, it reads very much like delusional drivel. History is peppered with absurd supernatural claims. Why should anyone believe Paul?

Acts 17:18 = THEN CERTAIN PHILOSOPHERS OF THE EPICUREANS, AND OF THE STOICKS, ENCOUNTERED HIM. AND SOME SAID, WHAT WILL THIS BABBLER SAY? OTHER SOME, HE SEEMETH TO BE A SETTER FORTH OF STRANGE GODS: BECAUSE HE PREACHED UNTO THEM JESUS, AND THE RESURRECTION.

Verse 20 = FOR THOU BRINGEST CERTAIN STRANGE THINGS TO OUR EARS: WE WOULD KNOW THEREFORE WHAT THESE THINGS MEAN.

And Paul answered: Oh, I just though I'd stop by here with some delusional drivel and absurd supernatural claims. If you don't like it --- kill me.

michel · Sep 6, 2005

JerryL said:
1. LOL So some people created a God who'se properties include "not created by people"

God wasn't "created" ... He is self-existing.

2. Some can mandate God, though I don't think anyone on this thread has tried to: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

You'd better reread that passage, Jerry, and check your verb tense. That's severly misquoted --- (Matthew 16:19).

michel · Sep 6, 2005

Gerani1248 said:
I dont understand how people can create God, then ask where He was during the disaster. I dont know how people can just mandate what God does or not.

God's used to it, Gerani. He's heard it a billion times.

blueman · Sep 6, 2005

The events in the gulf coast are devastating and tragic, there is no doubt about it. There is nothing wrong with questioning God and asking Him why he allows such terrible things to happen, but at the same time we need to acknowledege God as Sovereign and that He allows things to happen for a reason and show people that He is God and should be first in one's life above all other things. I think we as a society would admit that we have a tendency to get complacent and in many instances, downright arrogant about the way we live and how our lifestyle may be in contrast with what God's will is for our lives. Out of all of this tragedy may come good if people reach a spiritual awakening and recognize the One who has dominion over heaven and earth loves them and wants to direct their lives in a way that they have never experienced before.

JerryL · Sep 6, 2005

God wasn't "created" ... He is self-existing.

The "nu-unh - uh-hunh" approach? OK "God isn't existing at all, and the myth of God was created by people"

You'd better reread that passage, Jerry, and check your verb tense. That's severly misquoted --- (Matthew 16:19).

Actually it's a cut-n-paste from the NASV. But I'm happy to be more precise:

God can indeed be arbitrated on Earth by at least some, as per the Bible: dwsw soi taV kleidaV thV basileiaV twn ouranwn, kai o ean dhshV epi thV ghV estai dedemenon en toiV ouranoiV, kai o ean lushV epi thV ghV estai lelumenon en toiV ouranoiV.

Where is God during disasters?

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